I was talking to a friend about that the other day.

Whenever you try to change gear in LFS, may it be to a higher or lower one, with a H-pattern shifter (such as the one the G25 has), you can do it the right way (release the throttle pedal while pressing the clutch pedal, put gear on place, press throttle pedal while releasing the clutch pedal) or, if that does not work or you have done it wrong, you'll be put in neutral (but the gear on your stick will still be on the same place) and with just one press on the clutch pedal the car will be put into the desired gear.

The improvement I would like to see on that is :
If you have not geared correctly so you're put into neutral, you would need to repeat the right operation, putting your stick into neutral again and doing the correct steps, plus getting clutch damage as it would happen on a real car (there are cars with which you can change gears without clutch, but on a certain RPM's, and they're quite old too).

Putting the gear stick into a gear without pressing the clutch pedal at all should cause the engine to stall, with some damage and heat to the clutch.

There should be other mis-gearing circumstances where the result would be different (heh, I might be wrong about the whole thing), but basically I'm saying that the penalization of not gearing right is somewhat lower than in real world cases, and that this behaivour should be modifyed.

PD : I have not found a related thread anywhere on this forum, but if you know where it is, please paste a link, I'll be thankful.

PD2 : I'm sorry if this came up before or it just is 'unreal', I'm speaking of something that many people I know told me on their experiences of driving for a very long time (just unlike me )

I agree with OP

I'm not sure I agree with Not Sure.

Quote from Lateralus :

I'm not sure I agree with Not Sure.

I am not sure you are sure you agree with not sure

What I'm sure of, is that Not Sure was on-topic

Quote from DeMS :

Putting the gear stick into a gear without pressing the clutch pedal at all should cause the engine to stall, with some damage and heat to the clutch.

Actually it is possible, once moving, to change gears in a car without use of the clutch. You need to be off the gas as you force the car out of gear and then you just need to rev match and the stick will just slot into place.

It isn't going to be possible to get good H-pattern gearbox simulation until we get force feedback H-pattern shifters.

Force feedback clutch and break pedals would be nice too.

I think I followed him. I have a g25 and yes it is possible to pull transmission into neutral without clutching (good) and then select next gear with RPMs unmatched (bad) when you are past the apex, press the clutch once and you're off. I don't do it because it doesn't make sense to learn a pointless habit.

The only way around this would be, like OP said, make it such that you have to repeat the operation if you miss a shift. I guess I'm not totally against this so long as Sequential+clutch people have to do it as well. But then most sequential people use auto-clutch anyhow. Until all the other driving aids go I think this is a non-issue. I guess one could argue this slightly reduces workload but not nearly as much as Auto-Clutch. And /agree with poster who noted no way to accurately model gearbox behavior until we have ForceFeedback Gated shifters.

Quote from GobLox :

I think I followed him. I have a g25 and yes it is possible to pull transmission into neutral without clutching (good) and then select next gear with RPMs unmatched (bad) when you are past the apex, press the clutch once and you're off. I don't do it because it doesn't make sense to learn a pointless habit.

The only way around this would be, like OP said, make it such that you have to repeat the operation if you miss a shift. I guess I'm not totally against this so long as Sequential+clutch people have to do it as well. But then most sequential people use auto-clutch anyhow. Until all the other driving aids go I think this is a non-issue. I guess one could argue this slightly reduces workload but not nearly as much as Auto-Clutch. And /agree with poster who noted no way to accurately model gearbox behavior until we have ForceFeedback Gated shifters.

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks :]

Oh, and there is a way to model gearbox behavior in-game, and that is, induce Clutch damage (or clutch temperature) to those cars that are operated this way, so they would make sure they did it the right way.

Obvious exception of that would be the situation that Woz posted (which as far as I know, it's not common in racing situations).

Quote from DeMS :

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks :]

Oh, and there is a way to model gearbox behavior in-game, and that is, induce Clutch damage (or clutch temperature) to those cars that are operated this way, so they would make sure they did it the right way.

Obvious exception of that would be the situation that Woz posted (which as far as I know, it's not common in racing situations).

The technique I stated can be used in a modified way, called flatshift. It is not used much due to the damage it causes, mostly just drag racers use it.

For this technique you force the stick out of gear without the help of the clutch and then start to force into gear without the clutch. As you hear the teeth grind you dip the clutch just enough to drop into gear and then quickly release the clutch again. All this is done with your right foor firmly planted all the way down. The time saved is not worth it for the damage though for circuit racers, hence mostly a drag race technique, at least until you get into the BIG power cars with auto transmissions..


I have used H pattern and 3 pedals since I started LFS back in 2003. I started with Actlabs shifter and pedals then moved to G25 when the Actlab shifter bust. I have always driven "properly" even though you could exploit the gear shift system and you could be faster using the exploits.

The benefits of driving right are that each time LFS got more realistic I didn't have to change a single aspect of my driving. The recent clutch update is a good example. In the end I hardly noticed a change, apart from the inertia, while loads around me bitched like hell

+1

What you describe is modelled in Test Drive Unlimited. I like it, because a "misshift" takes a long time to shift right again. Currently you just press the clutch and off you go. Not in TDU. Would be nice in LFS too, so a +1

+1, it doesn't penalize you enough if you miss-shift.

Quote from Woz :

The technique I stated can be used in a modified way, called flatshift. It is not used much due to the damage it causes, mostly just drag racers use it.

For this technique you force the stick out of gear without the help of the clutch and then start to force into gear without the clutch. As you hear the teeth grind you dip the clutch just enough to drop into gear and then quickly release the clutch again. All this is done with your right foor firmly planted all the way down. The time saved is not worth it for the damage though for circuit racers, hence mostly a drag race technique, at least until you get into the BIG power cars with auto transmissions..


I have used H pattern and 3 pedals since I started LFS back in 2003. I started with Actlabs shifter and pedals then moved to G25 when the Actlab shifter bust. I have always driven "properly" even though you could exploit the gear shift system and you could be faster using the exploits.

The benefits of driving right are that each time LFS got more realistic I didn't have to change a single aspect of my driving. The recent clutch update is a good example. In the end I hardly noticed a change, apart from the inertia, while loads around me bitched like hell

Yes, that's the spirit, but you might want to recognize there is going to be truckloads of people who just exploits bugs in order to be more competitive (this does exist on each and every on line community, sadly), and what other way is better than not allowing them to have an advantage over people who does things right?

Again, yes, changing gears without clutch is quite meant to destroy your clutch, and the analogue effect on LFS would be to put clutch temperature or damage (once it's modeled), or any other measure to avoid people from driving in an unrealistic way without penalties.

Thanks to all of you who answered :]

Quote from DeMS :

Yes, that's the spirit, but you might want to recognize there is going to be truckloads of people who just exploits bugs in order to be more competitive (this does exist on each and every on line community, sadly), and what other way is better than not allowing them to have an advantage over people who does things right?

Again, yes, changing gears without clutch is quite meant to destroy your clutch, and the analogue effect on LFS would be to put clutch temperature or damage (once it's modeled), or any other measure to avoid people from driving in an unrealistic way without penalties.

Thanks to all of you who answered :]

Let them exploit. Each new patch just really pisses them off and they dont gain that much per lap. Just enjoy the fact you have more fun as you are driving in a realistic way