I started another thread which evolved into this topic, the single player experience, so I thought it best to start a new thread. I wouldn't sell the single player experience short. Allow me to explain. (I realize that some online clubs enable what I am going to share here, but most of us cannot commit the time to clubs which are required.)

There is nothing like having a great race against another person on a stable platform like LFS. Period. When the racing is close (and the racers are gentlemen) it is arguably the best experience one can have on a racing simulator.

However, there is something the single player experience can provide, which Multiplayer cannot (or does not) currently, and that is long races with fuel usage, tire wear and other mechanical issues to deal with during the race. I have to go to another sim to explain what I mean here, but won't mention its name out of respect for LFS. I raced on an English circuit, 25 laps with tire wear and fuel usage. Based on the settings I had to pit three times. Over time, that is to say, as the laps add up, your concentration begins to break down. This occurs at the same time your tires are going and you need to conserve fuel. It requires concentration and skill (on our level) to achieve consistant lap times and is quite challenging. It is a wonderful racing experience if you haven't done it. One clear result of such an experience is that your appreciation of real drivers sky rockets.

When the race is completed, you have a sense of accomplishment you would not have in shorter races, even if they are against real opponents. Now take the South City course in LFS. This is a great circuit. It would be a great experience to race a 50 lapper on the town course which require pit stops and the works. Rubber would build up on the circuit, which you might use to improve your times etc...

Those who have done this know what I mean. Hot lapping is one thing, short multiplayer is another. Racing many laps against tough ai opponents is unique as well. If you doubt me, try it for yourself. You won't be sorry.:eclipsee_

"It's always better to post in an existing thread than to start a new one.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

Everybody knows the AI code is pretty much a waste of hard drive space at the current moment and LFS is in fact promoted as an online racing simulator, so I wouldn't give a flying fudge about AI's lack of pitting values.
My perspective is that AI has always been like an "added bonus" with not much real value, neither it is on top of the "urgent bugs to fix" -list at Scawen's desk next to empty cans of Red Bull and cold pizza left-overs.

Sorry about the coder stereotype, couldn't resist it.

It's a different topic. Sorry.

I bet you haven't tried a long race under the circumstances I mentioned.

You're right, the ai on LFS isn't there yet so you have to do this on another sim I guess.

1. Better singleplayer = more crackers are happy with their crack = less money for devs
2. Better singleplayer = less multiplayer-action = unhappy players = less money for devs
3. More work on AI = less work on physics etc. = unhappy players = less money for devs
4. Take a look at the endurance leagues around. If you don't want a league, look at the ATC 60 lapers.

The AI is good for practicing overtaking. But it's just a preperation for online play.
Yes, I love endurance-racing. But mostly online or offline for practice.

Vain

Quote from mcooper :

It's a different topic. Sorry.

Yes, but the horse has been beaten to death, raised back to life as a zombie horse and then shot in the head and beaten to death again. You could have used the mystical unicorn search button covered in fairy dust.

Before you shelled the low fee of 24£ (don't blame us if your country's currency sucks -> higher price for you) and bought the license, you certainly must have tried the demo first to see if it's any good. The demo has all the features as the full version, except limited number of cars and tracks, and there were never any promises of better AI in the full version.

Maybe we'll get a smarter AI someday, who knows, but that feature isn't what LFS needs the most at the moment. Peace!

We have weekly qualifying+sprint+endurance races on the South African server and I know exactly what you mean. However, the AI is currently both slow and incapable. They cannot overtake, they just ram you out of the way. They cannot pit, they just stop in the middle of the track. They can't do much. This means that there is a lot of work in that department and when its time comes I'm sure there will be better AI. Its just not at the top of the prioity list right now.

LFS just isnt about offline/single player, heck it isnt even sold as that, it is sold as "Live For Speed - Online Racing Simulator".

Dan,

Wasn't attacking LFS. I've used it for years and will continue. My post was more of a positive one for the single player experience, not an attack on LFS. Not sure I agree with the money equations in the previous post. Most developers are going to a console model for more $$$.

There is no reason why you can't have both (mp and sp). LFS is an online racer and so it is what it is. And I know for a fact that the ai is being worked on for future updates. I won't mention names but there are other sims which have a strong physics models and have mp/sp possibilities.

But if you haven't tried what I suggested in the first post, you should try it out. It's a fun and challenging experience. (And then you can go back to online racing

I play many, many different sims, most of them offline, but the only time I ever play LFS offline is to hotlap or tweak setups, never ever use the AI.

TBH, I would hope that the devs arent "wasting" time on the AI, as that time could be better spent elsewhere, heck even strip out the AI all together.

Dan

Quote from Vain :

1. Better singleplayer = more crackers are happy with their crack = less money for devs
2. Better singleplayer = less multiplayer-action = unhappy players = less money for devs
3. More work on AI = less work on physics etc. = unhappy players = less money for devs
4. Take a look at the endurance leagues around. If you don't want a league, look at the ATC 60 lapers.

The AI is good for practicing overtaking. But it's just a preperation for online play.
Yes, I love endurance-racing. But mostly online or offline for practice.

Vain

1. Nonsense... Crackers that are happy with their crack are mostly drivers the devs could do without anyway... And WE definitely could do without them.
2. Nonsense... The fact that the offline racing is better has nothing to do with racing real people online. Experiences are completely different, and would not even compare.
3. True, but not problematic. In the end, S3 will be the best overall experience anyway. Why let the AI be the part that keeps LFS from being the BEST SIMULATOR EVER??? I would like to be able to race the AI whenever I like, and get at least some kind of racing experience from them.

As I think about it, it is unfair to gig LFS for ai. It is an online racing sim and is one of the best in that department.

You guys should give a long sp race with pits and all a go though. It is a different experience.

Based on how poor I do online against most of you guys, no wonder I like sp . some of you are outstanding, there's no doubt about it.

1. I like long races. And I like them even more when the others cars can do more than one tyre-distance. That's one of the reasons I play online.
2. People always say they're too slow too race online. The fact is that you can only become good online, because you can ask more experienced drivers for their setups and look at other driver's lines.
3. Really, give the online endurance races a go. You can't make an AI nervous. You can't exhaust them. No AI ever will be able to perform this way, regardless the amount of work put into it.
I recommend the ATC 60 laps, because you have obligation to tae part in more than one race, which makes the whole thing a lot easier. And really, you don't have to be fast. Just stay on the track and drive clean.

Vain

Sounds good, where's the info???

LFS forum, Leagues, ATC.

Vain

Perhaps mcooper, you should just wait for S2 to be released to see what the Ai will be like. Currently you are judging the single player experience based on an alpha version. For all you know, many things you want to see changed are already being changed. There is little point going into deep discussions about something that nobody has yet seen.

As for the development-priority of offline play features, it should be a lot lower on the list than any multiplayer functions and features. Most racers would welcome improvements in various aspects of offline play, but these things are not paramount to producing a great Online Race Simulator.

None of us know what the single player aspects of S2 will be like. That is the only fact you can rely on at this time.

I'm sure in other sims you can have some great longer distance races offline with the AI but LFS has something even better and that's long distance races against real opponents. Every fortnight I race in a league that runs races of at least 1 hour and it doesn't get much better, next race is a 3hr driver swap event
I know leagues don't suit everyone but with the limited time that the devs have I think it would be better for them to focus on other things than the AI, of course it ain't up to me.
It'd be good to have very good AI at some point but for me personally it's a very low priority.

Quote from Gunn :

Perhaps mcooper, you should just wait for S2 to be released to see what the Ai will be like. Currently you are judging the single player experience based on an alpha version.

Yay, the old 'you can't have a negative opinion about anything because it's only alpha' argument