Pretty please?
Assuming you are referring to personal insults and redline racing banning habits, then consider me out.
You smell, and you're banned from RR servers Sam
You smell, and you're banned from RR servers Sam
Actually, I'm not! I checked!
sry sam i had this line waiting to be posted all day after reading andys diatribe at work
ok you guys are talking about brake force distribution and stability control which is computer controlled, but is not the same as abs, (and is found on m3's ect not real drivers cars like evos )
)here we go again
i had a look at our lifetime ban list.
there are 107 in total.
if you consider the length of time we have been around and the amount of idiots there are, its not alot
.on the other hand, i'm actually pleased about our reputation since people who join our servers these days are ever so well behaved and we can actually race without having to constantly stop and spectate fools before getting the ban stick out.
so feel free to carry on, you are doing us a great service
i might even make you a honorary member!
please dont reply to this, we wouldnt want to start another ban thread doomed to get out of controll again
i never mentioned it but it seems some ppl cant help themselves but try to stir sh*t 
Why isn't the same as ABS, when they use the same sensors and do very similar operations. And why, if ABS doesn't need a computer, can many cars have the ABS disabled by removing a fuse?
I'd rate an M3 (albeit not a current computer controlled one) vastly more of a drivers car than a Lancer. And I DETEST BMWs, so it's pretty impressive for me to say that.
@Patrese: Did Andy come crying to you? I'm not going to carry on the conversation about RR, but I do wonder how many other non-lifetime bans you have out there. Or how many people think they are banned because of ban-happy tactics (which may have changed in the last year, but I don't bother with RR servers anyway, as they don't promote sensible racing that I enjoy).
you can disable the cabin light in a car by removing a fuse, does'nt mean its computer controlled. i give up
You didn't answer both questions together. Taking one out of context doesn't count as an answer.
You clearly don't understand what goes on under a bonnet. I give up.
Nice language by the way. Your school must be proud of you.
You clearly don't understand what goes on under a bonnet. I give up.
Nice language by the way. Your school must be proud of you.
Tristan wins
I don't know about other manufacturers but Bosch introduced electronic brake force (fluid pressure) metering in mid 90's - which meant that the ABS control unit could replace any mechanical force restriction devices. Now if a modern car doesn't have ABS, it doesn't. If it does, it will have a modern ABS system in it - which is definitely a driver aid.
Most manufacturers these days don't care about the drivers' enjoyment and involvment, because cars that are would interest a petrolhead don't sell in big numbers. It's funny in a way, people are interested in safe, durable cars but then they drive faster and more carelessly - higher speed accidents need to be taken into account when designing a new model - a new model that then can be driven even more recklessly.
On topic :twocents:; sure I'd welcome cars new to us. But facelifting the current cars with the physics staying the same.. What's the point? A newer looking car should have newer suspension design, newer engine characteristics etc. The game is about racing, and therefore I'd welcome old school race cars, Group C, IMSA GTP>O and so on. Something that would be exciting to drive, something that would need more commitment than the cars we have now. Or twistier tracks
Most manufacturers these days don't care about the drivers' enjoyment and involvment, because cars that are would interest a petrolhead don't sell in big numbers. It's funny in a way, people are interested in safe, durable cars but then they drive faster and more carelessly - higher speed accidents need to be taken into account when designing a new model - a new model that then can be driven even more recklessly.
On topic :twocents:; sure I'd welcome cars new to us. But facelifting the current cars with the physics staying the same.. What's the point? A newer looking car should have newer suspension design, newer engine characteristics etc. The game is about racing, and therefore I'd welcome old school race cars, Group C, IMSA GTP>O and so on. Something that would be exciting to drive, something that would need more commitment than the cars we have now. Or twistier tracks
+1 for every new content
ok i'll try to answer it but im no expert, abs is a very simple operation, with a speed sensor on each wheel it used to be almost like a spocket on each hub with a high and low spot but now its magentised and a abs valve block when the speed sensor detects the wheel is locked up it will very quickly release and reactivate the force to that caliper,
active stablity control takes alot of different things into account like wheel speed,steering input,traction at each wheel, yaw, braking force. that takes alot to figure out and control and when it does its not a simple on off switch like abs its a controlled force applied. back to abs i think samh hit the nail on the head by saying logic control, now if you want to call a simple logic control a computer controlling the car (which im sure you will with you computer controlled kettles) thats up to you but thats just playing with words.
and for the record im not saying that abs and active yaw control is not a driving aid, because it is, i am however saying they are just aids they do not do the work for you.
its just as easy to crash an evo as any other car ppl who post/look at videos of jeremy clarkson drifting with one finger need to realise its very easy to do such things on a massive air field with nothing to hit but alot harder in real life on real roads. (all that top gear stuff is staged to hell anyway)
if you as you claim actually do have an engineering degree (which i doubt) whoever gave it to you deserves to be shot in the head
So how, pray, does the ABS sensor a) know what to do and b) which wheel to do it to and c) whether a wheel is locked or not, all assuming it's not an antiquated mechanical system? Also note these are rhetorical questions. I know that the answer - the only answer - is a computer, usually either part of the ABS or a separate unit.
You are correct in that yaw/stability control look at more variables before actuating either throttle or individual wheel brakes (or, in the case of some cars, playing with diffs). But it's still a computer, just with more variables.
Aid: To make things easier. Yes, yes, I'm aware of the usefulness of things like ABS in an emergency, but the Evo system (and similar systems on modern 'sports' cars, and Skylines and... etc) influences vehicle dynamics well before 'emergency' levels. So it is an aid, and it's job is to make driving easier (and faster, but where is the fun in that).
You might think that an Evo is as easy to crash - but that is not the case. The computer(s) allow you to increase "The Limit", and therefore put you closer to the potential accident. But as the computer is helping the driver (and covering up his mistakes) the chances of said accident are reduced. Which is the emergency part of it.
Now of course, it depends slightly on your point of view. Rally cars don't have it for safety reasons (particularly), but to help (HELP, as in assist and make it easier for the driver) him go quicker. 4WD road cars have it to make gullible people buy their cars. People who drive (or have driven) proper sports cars don't want them EXCEPT in an emergency (possibly).
i agree with you on almost everything but that ^^
its the wrong way round. its there to make the car faster. if anything it makes the car more dangerous because its designed so that if the car does slide it helps correct the car, which if (and this seems natural to me) you steer into the slide it will spin the car the other way (pretty stupid imo) same as the skylines system of sending power to the front wheels as its needed its there to make the car faster.
now i assume if your saying ayc is a driving aid then what about cars with lsds power steering abs? its there to make the car faster and easier to drive. does that mean to be a driving purest you should all be driving karts? or be like real men and ride bikes
did i say i had a degree? no
did i say i was an expert in abs? no
funny how i get a warning for direct insults but you dont?
not directly but you chose to call everyone who know more than you about how abs works (which is precicely bugger all) an idiot
so youre certainly acting as if you think you know much much more about it than everybody else
funny how youre the only one whos called people chumps tards etc
im just telling you how it is, not trying to bs people and make things sound more complicated than they really are, and im not trying to sound like mr know it all because im not, go play lfs on the computers in your cars. what the geeks on here want to class as a computer and what i would class as a computer are clearly different things.
I have to agree with Tristan about things being easier and it influencing dynamics LONG before it gets to, or near, an emergency level.
How would I know this? I had an oppurtunity to drive a 2003 Subaru Legacy (estate) with VDC, ABS, and traction control on a winding snow covered road. I saw every thing it had to offer thrown out to keep the car in line and out of the ditch. It even gave me oversteer when I was understeering. It is indeed an AID. It also comes on and "helps" LOOOOOOOONG before any kind of danger is reached. (5 speed automatic)
Then in the same hour I was driving through that same twisty bit of road in another car. A 1987 Toyota MR2. No electronics to change any dynamic condition of the car what-so-ever. Not even the ever desired ABS that has been proposed so many times for LFS. (5 speed manual)
Gran Turismo did it best with the TCS and ASM, the developers choice to have those things on EVERY time you buy a new car... what a pain in the ass that game was! I hated every minute of tuning and retuning the suspension to get it to feel like anything near a car.
LFS is here because it didn't follow the leader.
As for new models? I dunno, I like to get a new suprise every time a patch is released, its like winning the lottery every 6 months or so! LFS is fine, new car or not. I'm still coping with the stable full of new monsters since the release of S2. (open wheels and GTR cars, then we get the FBM before I even touch the williams BMW) Its all moving so fast already!
If anything, we need more 70's and 80's spirit cars in it. Newer cars just dont have that raw, gritty, smell like petrol, rubber, brakes and oil.
Sorry for the long winded speech, this thread got very interesting and then I knew something about what was being talked about.
Only if you don't remove the steering lock after the slide is corrected, either through skill, luck or relying on computers (logic or otherwise).
Yes, power steering is a driver aid - it reduces the torque input required and lowers driver fatigue, with the positive side effect of allowing 'better' suspension geometry that would otherwise make the steering too heavy for long term use. Adding power steering doesn't make the car quicker, nor allow it to correct mistakes automatically.
LSDs are a [usually] mechanical system designed to maximise torque delivery. It doesn't make the car correct mistakes from you. You can still get huge slides out of a car with an LSD, but at the same time it's less likely to spin the inside wheel whilst you go nowhere fast. Not really a driver aid - is an engine a driver aid, per se?
ABS - A driver aid indeed, designed (when not used with nanny stability aids) solely for emergency use. Racing versions are a driver aid in the true meaning, and reduce lock ups. I don't like it, and I'm pleased it's not in the majority of motor racing.
Karts - too slow and boring for REAL men. Only for boys before they graduate to proper cars, or for messing about it to let off steam. Nice and simple for non-engineers and youngsters too, which keeps costs down (excluding silly engine regulations designed, as far as I can tell, to escalate costs as much as possible.
Bikes - I'll agree with you here. As an [ex
] biker I understand the joy of motorcycles, the freedom and the acceleration. I like the physics that make them work, and I like watching bike racing too. Rider aids are encroaching though, and it's highly likely that future generations will consider the late 90s and early 00s as the 'golden age' of bike racing before electronics took over and reduced the skill requirements.Also, I wouldn't race bikes. To be any good requires unnatural skill, to be off the pace isn't worth bothering with, and lack of skills results in disproportionately large accidents compared with cars. As long as my car weighs less than a tonne, and does what I tell it to rather than what a computer thinks it will do, and has the drive in the right place (rear wheels only) I'll be happy.
"karts are to slow and boring" mx5???????
Apart from karts that cost more to run per race than my car cost to buy, yes, they are slower. Name a kart I can afford to race that does more than 120mph? And boring in the sense of mechanical interest - it's so simple that it wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few minutes really.
About time for the new models to hit the Dealerships?
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