It seems like a few of the better drivers here have found the cup frustrating in terms of the attitude of a few poorer competitors. Some have even left. So for series 2, maybe there should there be some sort of qualification process, where you have to demonstrate both a good knowledge of the rules and decent racecraft. How fast you are wouldn't matter of course.

Some ideas:

• Have a qualification event where the race director throws difficult scenarios at the drivers that test their knowledge of the rules and racecraft. For example, tricky combo of track and car, safety car at random intervals, a reverse grid etc.
  
• Hide the password to [DR] Server 1 in the rulebook, at the bottom.
  
• A written test where you PM the answers to the admins

Sounds pretty draconian so I don't know how it would go down with new entrants but we can't have guys like kipsus, tg44, eveningstar all leaving because theyre fed up with "whats the safety car" nonsense.

Quote from TomMK :

• Hide the password to [DR] Server 1 in the rulebook, at the bottom.

:ices_rofl!!

Although that mightn't be such a bad idea, it does seem like a lot of people haven't read the rules

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

:ices_rofl!!

Although that mightn't be such a bad idea, it does seem like a lot of people haven't read the rules

Consider it incentive to read the rules.

Put an absurd number of blank pages after. Put it in the middle of them, and say, "It's somewhere in there." That means they have ot read it to find it.

Muahahahahahahh !

If we don't mind turning this into an "improvements" type thread, I think there's a few things I'd change for season 2 that many may disagree with.

1) Drivers must use a wheel.
Sorry but I do not think you can properly control the car with a mouse or keyboard especially when you have cars to the left and right of you and need to make subtle split second movements. This isn't meant as an attack on anyone - I simply think it will lead to less accidents on the track. There's a big difference between running fast in qualifying laps and running safe in large fields of cars.

2) Pace car must travel at a consistent speed
Whether they do this or not in real life I'm not sure. But as beginners we obviously cannot handle doing 120mph in some sections and 40mph in other sections during safety laps (especially if the pace car drives each lap differently). If the pace car traveled roughly the same speed the entire course it would only extend the race time a few minutes. Case in point: Taylor-mania, the leader in the championship and one of the more respected drivers in this series almost wiped out rob in the last race because he had to brake from 100+mph down to a stop.

3) Pace car must use a wheel
Sorry but in order to drive a consistent speed, you need an analog pedal.

4) The rules can be better defined - look at the IGTC rules.

5) I happen to like IGTC's rule on safety period restarts than what we currently have:

"2.6) When the green flag is shown, the SC period and full-course yellow are ended and drivers may resume racing. Drivers may overtake as soon as the green flag is shown. However, beginning or completing a pass before the green flag flies will result in a DT if caught by the marshals. If successfully protested post-race, this infraction will receive a C1 penalty."

The reason is related to items 2 and 3 above. But also because this is a beginners league with all different types of skill levels, some people are just plain slow during restarts! If you're behind a less experienced driver, you are penalized because you must wait for him to cross the finish line before you can pass. This can cost you several seconds and you may never catch up to the rest of the field due to the short races.


With all that said, I had a blast during all the races I participated in.

I just happenned to be making an improvements log for next season at the mo. I'll add some more and get back to you all.

Quote from Technique :

1) Drivers must use a wheel.
Sorry but I do not think you can properly control the car with a mouse or keyboard especially when you have cars to the left and right of you and need to make subtle split second movements. This isn't meant as an attack on anyone - I simply think it will lead to less accidents on the track. There's a big difference between running fast in qualifying laps and running safe in large fields of cars.

Certainly not ()
I use a keyboard and havn't hit anyone all season. (yet )
This merely discriminates against people without wheels. (and who else, apart from me, races with one?)

Quote from Technique :

2) Pace car must travel at a consistent speed
Whether they do this or not in real life I'm not sure. But as beginners we obviously cannot handle doing 120mph in some sections and 40mph in other sections during safety laps (especially if the pace car drives each lap differently). If the pace car traveled roughly the same speed the entire course it would only extend the race time a few minutes. Case in point: Taylor-mania, the leader in the championship and one of the more respected drivers in this series almost wiped out rob in the last race because he had to brake from 100+mph down to a stop.

+1. The SC needs to go quicker down the straights, but slow down in the corners to a constant speed. So, for example, (@ Blackwood) travel flat out (depends on car, obviously) down the back straight (to save time), and then (for example) 70 mph in the corners, consistently.

Quote from Technique :

3) Pace car must use a wheel
Sorry but in order to drive a consistent speed, you need an analog pedal.

+1.

Quote from Technique :

4) The rules can be better defined - look at the IGTC rules.

+1. Work in progress.

Quote from Technique :

5) I happen to like IGTC's rule on safety period restarts than what we currently have:

"2.6) When the green flag is shown, the SC period and full-course yellow are ended and drivers may resume racing. Drivers may overtake as soon as the green flag is shown. However, beginning or completing a pass before the green flag flies will result in a DT if caught by the marshals. If successfully protested post-race, this infraction will receive a C1 penalty."

^

Quote from Technique :

With all that said, I had a blast during all the races I participated in.

Great

Quote from J@tko :

Certainly not ()
I use a keyboard and havn't hit anyone all season. (yet )
This merely discriminates against people without wheels. (and who else, apart from me, races with one?)

I knew this was going to stir up a debate But that's good. There can't be any progress otherwise. Many new players use keyboard and mouse. I too used the mouse when I started and was quite fast. Still, I feel the lack of proper control leads to incidents not only during the race but also during the SC periods. Mouse users have to keep rapidly clicking in an attempt to drive safely behind someone.

Quote :

+1. The SC needs to go quicker down the straights, but slow down in the corners to a constant speed. So, for example, (@ Blackwood) travel flat out (depends on car, obviously) down the back straight (to save time), and then (for example) 70 mph in the corners, consistently.

I don't agree with that though. That's exactly the problem I stated. Because they speed down the straight and then slow down hard for the turns it causes a chain reaction. Better drivers may not have a problem with this but this is a beginners league.

Look at one of the IGTC race replays. The pace car does 60mph around the whole track both on the straightaway and turns.

Keyboard and Mouse driving should be allowed i think. It's not an enforceable rule and it discriminates against the exact audience we're out to attract - beginners. Plus, look at round 1 at blackwood, final lap, Jack and Marlboro had an awesome dual, right on the limit, and Jack uses a keyboard.

Green Flag message = overtaking allowed is perfectly reasonable but it must be made absolutely crystal clear as it's not the normal procedure in high profile racing (F1, Indycar etc). You could put in on the screen with the green flag message eg; Green Flag - Full race conditions now - Overtaking allowed NOW - GO GO GO!!!!.

Pace car at a consistent pace ala Technique is a good idea, both in that it reduces the "accordian effect" of spreading out on straights and bunching up at corners, and also, if the safety car was doing 49mph on the pit limiter all the way round, less laps would be needed, as a lap would take ages.

I'm dead serious about the password hidden in the rule book. Just put a short sentence half way through the red flag procedure for instance, in bold. Anyone who asks what the password is will clearly not have read the rules before trying to join [DR] Server 1. Don't use the word "password" either as people could open the rulebook and search for "password". If they're that bothered about racing with us they'll find it.

Good points Tom. I was probably out of line with that statement. I watched a few replays from some of the bigger racing leagues and there appeared to be a couple of mouse users that seemed to do fine.

The green flag overtaking probably has more to do with the poor restarts than "slower" drivers.

Just a thought from me.

How about requiring CTRA Bronze license to race in the series ?
It really isn't hard to obtain, and should prove tht people have experience of racing in a field of cars.

Quote from Technique :

Good points Tom. I was probably out of line with that statement. I watched a few replays from some of the bigger racing leagues and there appeared to be a couple of mouse users that seemed to do fine.

The green flag overtaking probably has more to do with the poor restarts than "slower" drivers.

Nah I don't think it was out of line. I hadn't thought about the green flag idea too hard but of course it does allow overtaking of slow cars much earlier, so I'm all for it now. If only I could race on Sunday evenings!!

Quote from Bean0 :

Just a thought from me.

How about requiring CTRA Bronze license to race in the series ?
It really isn't hard to obtain, and should prove tht people have experience of racing in a field of cars.

Interesting idea. The LFSBC put itself out there to be the league that drivers go to first, before places like CTRA, though. What do you need to get a bronze license

Sorry for double post.

Have a sign up form. With a tick box saying they have read, accept, and understood the rules of entry. Then when they don't abide by them. Slap the taste out of their mouths and toss their asses out of the league.

Quote from MR_B :

Have a sign up form. With a tick box saying they have read, accept, and understood the rules of entry. Then when they don't abide by them. Slap the taste out of their mouths and toss their asses out of the league.

Isn't that copper? Bronze requires you to get points AFAIK.

DK

Quote from Bean0 :

Just a thought from me.

How about requiring CTRA Bronze license to race in the series ?
It really isn't hard to obtain, and should prove tht people have experience of racing in a field of cars.

Quote from TomMK :

Interesting idea. The LFSBC put itself out there to be the league that drivers go to first, before places like CTRA, though. What do you need to get a bronze license

That would be a pretty good idea if everyone used the CTRA servers, or if I forced everyone to use CTRA servers. Already, I've checked all entrants to ensure they have no infractions on CTRA, but only about 2/3 had ever raced there. As a guide, it took me 1 month-a day to get Bronze, including several 30+pts on UF-BR.

Is there any way I can check whether participants have ever been banned from any server?

Quote from MR_B :

Have a sign up form. With a tick box saying they have read, accept, and understood the rules of entry. Then when they don't abide by them. Slap the taste out of their mouths and toss their asses out of the league.

I saw you did this for the stock car league, and thought 'what a neat little idea' Will be implemented for season 2.


List of all improvement suggestions for Season 2 so far coming tonight.

Quote from J@tko :

I saw you did this for the stock car league, and thought 'what a neat little idea' Will be implemented for season 2.


List of all improvement suggestions for Season 2 so far coming tonight.

Can I bagsie making the form lol?

Or do you want dekojester to do a posh PDF

Or will we have an online one?

I've only joined a CTRA server once so I doubt I have any sort of license. The whole points system and license stuff seemed a bit overkill to me for pickup races.

I am one of the original members of the clean racers club though!

Improvements log attached.

Renamed thread to 'Season 2 Improvements (started from entry requirements)'

EDIT: NO COMBO SUGGESTIONS PLEASE.

Quote from J@tko :

EDIT: NO COMBO SUGGESTIONS PLEASE.

Thats so cheap

Did you thing any more about UF1 @ AS Cadet rev?

Quote from JO53PHS :

Can I bagsie making the form lol?



Or do you want dekojester to do a posh PDF



Or will we have an online one?

^^

Quote from JO53PHS :

Thats so cheap

Did you think any more about UF1 @ AS Cadet rev?

Yes. Not going to happen (reverse at least)

Quote from JO53PHS :

^^

What form?

Quote from Technique :

Drivers must use a wheel.
Sorry but I do not think you can properly control the car with a mouse or keyboard especially when you have cars to the left and right of you and need to make subtle split second movements. This isn't meant as an attack on anyone - I simply think it will lead to less accidents on the track. There's a big difference between running fast in qualifying laps and running safe in large fields of cars.

What next?..All racers should be able to get 60fps with full detail with a full field?
It seems to me from what I've seen during and after races that more crashes are caused by low frame rates or near draw distances than have been caused by not using a wheel.
This is simply Elitist.

Quote from TomMK :

Plus, look at round 1 at blackwood, final lap, Jack and Marlboro had an awesome dual, right on the limit, and Jack uses a keyboard.

And I use a Joystick...

Oh and not to sound too negative, I'd like to put forward the idea of "fixed setup races".
I think some people who are members of teams have a much easier time getting a good setup, beginners tend to struggle with this.

Quote from Marlbro :

What next?..All racers should be able to get 60fps with full detail with a full field?
It seems to me from what I've seen during and after races that more crashes are caused by low frame rates or near draw distances than have been caused by not using a wheel.
This is simply Elitist.

And I use a Joystick...

Oh and not to sound too negative, I'd like to put forward the idea of "fixed setup races".
I think some people who are members of teams have a much easier time getting a good setup, beginners tend to struggle with this.

You're right. Apologies if I offended anyone. I think just seeing the pace car swerve left and right into the grass at like 30mph using keyboard more than once made me think this way! And in the pace laps... mouse users are 100% throttle off 100% off 100%. If this was a league for just XFG or XRG cars I would have never said that as I believe those cars can be easily controlled in a field of cars using keyboard or mouse. I guess you guys will have your chance to prove me wrong in the final race where throttle control really matters!

Anyway, I think the fixed setup idea is great.

Fixed setups are nice in theory, but I like my car set up differently to you, and you want it different to Jack, who.....

See, I thought learning about setups would be one of the elements to this series. I'm all for using other peoples to learn, but although I didn't race, I was practicing for the BMW's at Aston Club with a setup I did on my own and it's awesome when you make a little tweak and gain 2 tenths. Part of the fun. Plus you learn stuff.

edit: I just went and looked at the times you guys were setting at Aston Club and now I'm put off racing you - 1.05:500?!!!! I'm 2 seconds off that, on a course with 2 turns. wtf!

Also, @ Jack, if we're doing alternate weekends, can we have a non-championship event each week in between? Maybe at a different time (so I can race )

Quote from Marlbro :

Oh and not to sound too negative, I'd like to put forward the idea of "fixed setup races".
I think some people who are members of teams have a much easier time getting a good setup, beginners tend to struggle with this.

Nice idea - will consider it for a car where the setup doesn't make that much difference

Quote from TomMK :

Also, @ Jack, if we're doing alternate weekends, can we have a non-championship event each week in between? Maybe at a different time (so I can race )

+1

You have PM.

I don't like the idea of setup fixing, because some setups I just cannot drive with. Some setups I like others may hate

I too am not keen on fixed setups. Even though I'm personally not very good with setups. I know roughly around four settings, and how they change the balance. Normally I've just got an inferno setup, used my über-four-setting-setup skills, and surprizingly all has gone well. Furthermore, I can't remember when someone's got an No-I'm-not-gonna-share-my-set-'coz-I'm-a-selfish-bastard-answer to a set request.

Then there was the sc procedure thingy. Ideally you'd wan't to have a NASCAR-style green flag. But since there has never been any proven correlation between americans and common sense (no offence) it'll have to be discarded. The brilliance of the widely used formula1 style procedure is that when the leader of the pack is in charge, all cars are in a neat queue, and nothing will happen before the s/f straight. Normally the leader starts to accelerate a in the most convinient spot - it's not always the s/f straight or the last turn. This forces everyone to drive safe. There will be some gaps between cars, and therefore fewer accident's.