Is there anyway to get the "light" wheel feeling on an FFB wheel in LFS?, its something thats present in RL (and GTL ) and something that would be nice to have in LFS.

Sorry if this has asked before, I did a search and nothing came up.

Dan,

It'll never be added, to may people think its a 'canned' effect :rolleyes: when it happens in real life..

Quote from steve :

It'll never be added, to may people think its a 'canned' effect :rolleyes: when it happens in real life..

Really, thats a shame, for something like LFS, that people say is very realistic, to leave out an effect that happens alot IRL.

"Canned" or not

Dan,

Ya its to bad, at least have an option for the 'canned' effects so the hardcores wont cry about it :wahh:

every so often i do find i get the feeling of understeer throught me wheel.. but it aint that often tho..

But how can the so called "hardcores" say the the FF in LFS is so much better than sim X, when it doesnt even give you feedback from understeer that you get in a real car.
TBH, I was really expecting something a bit better from a FF wheel than I got, sure its more realistic using a wheel controller than a pad, but the way people "big up" the FF in LFS I am a touch dissapointed.
Not saying the FF in GTL is brilliant, its not, its wheel weighting is "vibey", but it does an excellent job of conveying the feeling of a slide or an understeer condition, and TBH I am a bit shocked LFS doesnt.
A cross between the 2 would be great though.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Really, thats a shame, for something like LFS, that people say is very realistic, to leave out an effect that happens alot IRL.

"Canned" or not

Dan,

LFS FFB works from the forces being applied to the front wheels of the car which in turn send forces up the steering column. This is what you feel through your wheel.

It gives a very detailed FFB once you "tune" in to it.

OK, so how do I "tune" it to give me realistic understeer FFB?.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

But how can the so called "hardcores" say the the FF in LFS is so much better than sim X, when it doesnt even give you feedback from understeer that you get in a real car.
TBH, I was really expecting something a bit better from a FF wheel than I got, sure its more realistic using a wheel controller than a pad, but the way people "big up" the FF in LFS I am a touch dissapointed.
Not saying the FF in GTL is brilliant, its not, its wheel weighting is "vibey", but it does an excellent job of conveying the feeling of a slide or an understeer condition, and TBH I am a bit shocked LFS doesnt.
A cross between the 2 would be great though.

Dan,

Head to an EMPTY carpark in your car and try some understeer in a safe way. Pay attention to what you are feeling from where.

Most of the understeer feel will be from the change in G on your body as it levels or drops, depending on how bad the understeer. In the steering you notice more the build up of pressure stop, not the no force effect the ISI engine gives. The wheels go light in LFS during wheelspin as they would IRL.

What LFS lets you feel better than any other sim is the car weight and once you know how the weight is distributed you know what the car is doing.

I'll try it out, I don't hold out much hope because as it is it doesnt feel REAL, regardless of whether it lets you know what the car is doing, G levels etc etc, it just doesnt feel like the effect you get in a real car, in a real car once you are understeering and the front tyres have little or no grip the steering is very light, something that LFS just doesnt convey.
Maybe I was just expecting to much?.

Dan,

IIRC there is a recent thread about the best FFb settings for LFS in which i also posted.

but here are the settings you should have for LFS specifically.

as said before, LFS generates its own forces, so you can turn off things like the centering spring and damping force in windows. the only force setting i use on my wheel other than those in LFS (@ 50%), is to have the standard FFB level at about 25-50% in windows. this basically just makes sure that the FFB is on.

tbh, i dont think i can comment on the understeer side of LFS as i haven't tested any of the cars enough to check. one thing i can say is that i always know when i am understeering, but off the top of my head i dont know why maybe it is the ffb which i pick up subconciously, or maybe i just react to whats on screen...i just cant remember :P
but imo, at least the oversteer feeling is correct but this is often dependant on the wheel. i think my Momo spoils it slightly as it has some constant resistance which negates the feeling of the wheel going light.

maybe post a ss of your FF settings Dan (in LFS and win CP) , this may not be helping I do feel some grip loss at front wheels but it dosent go completely loose .

SD.

Pilot sent me some settings Monday night, can't remember them off the top of my head, but I am pretty sure most, if not all the CP settings are at 0%, I have it set at 270DEG and I think the force in LFS is 60%, any more than that and I feel the wheel loads up a bit too much, plus it extenuates the lack of lightness at understeer.
I also get an odd "patch" of lightness in the wheel around the centre of the steering axis, it is very noticable when practicing on SO Long for the ERCC in the tight left-right turns.
I hope it is a settings issue and I'll post some screenies tonight.

Cheers

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

OK, so how do I "tune" it to give me realistic understeer FFB?.

Dan,

i think it'll be fixed with the new physics as there does seem to be a prob with tires at a certain force/slip angle... this may be effecting the understeer force felt

I do think the LFS forces could use some work. Sure, they are much better than what any ISI engine delivers (imo.), but they still are far away from providing the kind of feedback Richard Burns Rally does. Though a WRC car is of course different than what we have in LFS, but still the feedback effects feel so much more real in RBR; When I'm accelerating or braking I can feel the slight change in the wheel's stiffness to know how much grip the front wheels have, when I lock the front wheels when braking I can instantly feel a slight change in the wheel etc...

For LFS everyone always just says the forces "come through the steering column", but no one seems to know exactly what forces from the "steering column" are there. For example, I would assume the amount of weight on the front wheels would affect the stiffness of the steering wheel, so when I'm braking heavily the wheel should feel different than when I'm accelerating and most of the weight is on the rear wheels. But I haven't felt such in LFS, maybe the effect is there, but it certainly doesn't feel as good as it does in RBR.

The effect is definitely there Kegetys.
Either that or I'm too dumb to evaluate the forces that are put on my hands.

Vain

I think it just takes a bit of time to tune into the FF. Give it a couple of weeks Dan.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I think it just takes a bit of time to tune into the FF. Give it a couple of weeks Dan.

I hope so, I guess I am a touch frustrated because the wheel has made me even slower (yes, its possible), even though I was warned of this, it is certainly frustrating, that and the fact that the correct understeer feeling is present in GTL, which is ISI based and always gets a slagging.

Anyway, I shall hopefully be on the ERCC server tonight trying to "dial it in" so any help would be greatly recieved

Dan,

Because the FF is directly linked to the physics, you should wait till we have the physics patch Scawen is currently working on before judging LFS. He said that the tyre grip is not spot on on the phase of losing grip, so it also affects understeer. Maybe the updated physics will give you more of a understeer feel.

The question that still remains though, does the wheel really get light on understeer on tarmac? Or is it just a myth that seems logical to everybody and is thus accepted without further investigation?

Yes it does, well at least it has on the numerous different car types I have driven, both on the road and on the curcuit.

I am not "judging" LFS, merely stating that I beileve this effect is lacking in its current form.

I love playing LFS as much as the next man, but if it could improved by improving this then I am all for it.

Dan,

As you increase slip angle, the torque required to turn the steering wheel (or keep it turned against the self centering torque) increases until it peaks, at which point you are using the tyres to their maximum - any further increase in steering angle would increase slip angle beyond optimum, reducing cornering force, and also reducing the torque on the wheel. So yes, it DOES get lighter (but not REALLY light), when you induce understeer.

Then, if you're a really bad driver, and you keep turning the wheel hopelessly believing that more lock will somehow cure the understeer, the wheels no longer rorate 'freely', but have to hop across the road surface. Anyone who thinks this is normal needs driving lessons.

LFS simulates all of this afaik (apart from the hopping, but race drivers don't need that simulated because, of course, we never do that. Do we?). It's subtle, and can only be felt if you have Windows Game Controllers set properly (see other threads), but I feel the peak of torque required and the decrease afterwards. Maybe someone should measure it with a Newtonmeter or something :S

Quote from tristancliffe :

So yes, it DOES get lighter (but not REALLY light), when you induce understeer.

Your physics degree might tell you that, but in reality it does get REALLY light, but it will all depend on many, many different factors.
You can chuck slip angles, blah blah fancy whatevers at this, but IT AINT RIGHT, its that simple.

Dan,

I drive an MX-5. Now okay, it's a girly hairdressers car, but it frequently wins (or used to in Mk1 and Mk2 varients) best handling car of the year awards, beating porsches, caterhams, loti, etc. In that, when I drive it hard (and I mean HARD) occasionally I get understeer. When I do, the lightening effect isn't huge and obvious, it's small and subtle, and quite easy to misinterpret, especially on a wet road with reduced friction.

On a FWD car the effect is identical, but being the driven wheels you also get some torque steer into the feeling that LFS doesn't simulate, at least much, as far as I know.

I agree with Tris and Dan if that's possible. I too do a lot of track driving and I do feel the resistance build to the point where you are past the ideal slip angle. It is subtle though but can be greatly influenced by the amount of caster designed into the suspension geometry of any particular car - more caster = greater 'centering', greater centuring = more resistance to the point of ideal slip angle so the effect becomes more obvious with greater caster. I haven't noticed this built into the game on the few cars where caster is adjustable though.

I can only just detect the lightening of the wheel past the ideal slip angle in LFS. Maybe its not even there and my brain tricks me into thinking I can feel it because that's what I'm used to.

Also, I've noticed this effect is much more apparent on my road car which is rear wheel drive. In addition, its even more noticeable in the wet but I've not done any wet races in LFS yet to compare. My raod car has a lot more caster than my track car. I'll soon be putting that right tho!

Hope you get me.

Quote from shim :

every so often i do find i get the feeling of understeer throught me wheel.. but it aint that often tho..

so do i! I get it everytime that crappy Raceabout oversteers