Quote from Mazz4200 :

Problem is, thanks to those bloody Germ-ans and their chuffin precision engineering, they've stolen the core customer base from Jaguar.

It's because American technology is generally stone age. The Germans actually can build something that works, when we do something right it runs out of money (I.E. Beagle).

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It's no secret than Ford have been propping up Jag for years. Look inside any of their cars from the last few years and you'll see nothing but the Ford's Group parts bin. ... Jag can no longer rely on that Ford parts bin to save costs, so what are we gonna get now ? A Sat-Nav from a TATA Nano in the next gen XK, switch gear from a TATA......'whateverothercartheymakethingy' in a new XJ ?

Ford is skint, so they have to. But if that technology that is being shared works, it's not as if there is a problem.

It's not like BL where there was no joined up thinking at all (what killed it). The problem with British Leyland was the only thing they did was share dealers.

Let's choose the worst example of sheer lunacy - the Triumph Stag. It's main rival was BL stablemate, the MG B.

Rover, another arm of BL, had bought the rights to the absolute mutt's nuts Buick V8. We all know about that. But what engine did Triumph stick in the stag? They didn't go for the all-aluminium light as a feather unit. Oh no. They got two inline fours and practically stuck them together with parcel tape. Silly idea, crap engine. Technology sharing works.

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Whats going to happen to the quality ? Whats going to happen to the workforce after the money given by Ford runs out in a years time ?

Don't underestimate TATA. They have more than capable people - they produce similar levels of cars to Subaru. OK, they produce cheaper cars but I feel sure they should be capable. It's not as if Ford didn't do cheap and nasty. TATA should do a good job.

As for the production, I don't care if they start producing the cars in India or not. They are a company, not a bloody job creation scheme. They don't have plans to move production. They won't move R and D, they know they just won't be able to do it in India.

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And i guess the biggest bug-bare. Why the hell couldn't some British company step up to the plate and take it on. It's not as though we're a poor nation, it's not as though we don't have any companies that can't afford to keep it British.

Is there any large British motor manufacturer? No. David Richards lead a consortium to by Aston Martin, but they produce less cars in a year than either of those make in a week.

Quote from duke_toaster :

It's because American technology is generally stone age. The Germans actually can build something that works, when we do something right it runs out of money (I.E. Beagle).

Yep, can't argue with that.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Ford is skint, so they have to. But if that technology that is being shared works, it's not as if there is a problem.

It's not like BL where there was no joined up thinking at all (what killed it). The problem with British Leyland was the only thing they did was share dealers.

Let's choose the worst example of sheer lunacy - the Triumph Stag. It's main rival was BL stablemate, the MG B.

Rover, another arm of BL, had bought the rights to the absolute mutt's nuts Buick V8. We all know about that. But what engine did Triumph stick in the stag? They didn't go for the all-aluminium light as a feather unit. Oh no. They got two inline fours and practically stuck them together with parcel tape. Silly idea, crap engine. Technology sharing works.

Top Gear fan ? it's all good..

Again, can't argue with you there either. I come from a generation where BL cars where the ONLY affordable cars to buy in this country. Owned a few myself. And yes, they are/were as bad as you'd imagine

Quote from duke_toaster :

Don't underestimate TATA. They have more than capable people - they produce similar levels of cars to Subaru. OK, they produce cheaper cars but I feel sure they should be capable. It's not as if Ford didn't do cheap and nasty. TATA should do a good job.

I'm gonna own up here and admit to knowing absolutely nothing about TATA. In fact i'd never even heard the name until this thread came along. So all i've got to go on is this little Nano micro-car thing.

I do hope you're right about them being able to do a good job, i guess only time will tell. Perhaps i've just got the Rover/BMW deal at the forefront of my mind and can only see a sad end to this deal ? Maybe i'm being too pessimistic ? We'll see.

Quote from duke_toaster :

As for the production, I don't care if they start producing the cars in India or not. They are a company, not a bloody job creation scheme. They don't have plans to move production. They won't move R and D, they know they just won't be able to do it in India.

Who truly knows. With a bit of investment in the Indian infrastructure, there's no reason at all why they couldn't move production there. I personally don't think they will, but, with much much cheaper labour costs etc etc, it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Is there any large British motor manufacturer? No. David Richards lead a consortium to by Aston Martin, but they produce less cars in a year than either of those make in a week.

As a Brit and a fellow petrolhead doesn't that make you just a little bit sad. The loss of our motoring heritage, our proud and at one time, world leading inventiveness and creativity being stripped down to nothing but a name, a badge stuck on the front of a foreign car. Do you not have pride in your own nation anymore ? Wouldn't you like to see British companies building cars as good as if not better than the German counterparts ? I know i would, and not out of some reverential jingoistic flag waving exercise. But simply because we've got the talent in this country, we've got the experience in this country, we've got the resources and the money in this country. It seems the only thing we no longer have, is the will. And that makes me sad...

And this is coming from someone who's first motoring love is Italian cars from the 50's,60's and 70's ! I'd rather have any Maserati over the best Jag ever made, any day of the week.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

I'm gonna own up here and admit to knowing absolutely nothing about TATA. In fact i'd never even heard the name until this thread came along. So all i've got to go on is this little Nano micro-car thing.

Well, Tata is like an Indian General Electric - they own lots of rather interesting things.

They own what was Daewoo's commercial vehicles arm, build several small cars, a saloon (and two four by fours). Tata also own Corus (which was British Steel), a large energy group (in India), a whole load of other stuff - and, oddly - Tetley Tea (which is part of a larger company).

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I do hope you're right about them being able to do a good job, i guess only time will tell. Perhaps i've just got the Rover/BMW deal at the forefront of my mind and can only see a sad end to this deal ? Maybe i'm being too pessimistic ? We'll see.

With the Rover/BMW deal there was a degree of competition between the 75 and the three series, I doubt there will be any competition between any Tata models and any Jaguar or Land Rover unit. I don't know how much access to Ford engines they will have (if any), they could wind up in actual Tatas ...

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As a Brit and a fellow petrolhead doesn't that make you just a little bit sad. The loss of our motoring heritage, our proud and at one time, world leading inventiveness and creativity being stripped down to nothing but a name, a badge stuck on the front of a foreign car. Do you not have pride in your own nation anymore ? Wouldn't you like to see British companies building cars as good as if not better than the German counterparts ? I know i would, and not out of some reverential jingoistic flag waving exercise. But simply because we've got the talent in this country, we've got the experience in this country, we've got the resources and the money in this country. It seems the only thing we no longer have, is the will. And that makes me sad...

Yes, it is irritating that there is no British owned volume car producer. But there is simply no-one with the money flowing around that wants to put their nuts in front of the archery target that wants to buy them. It would be nice if a British buyer would come forward, but I'm not sure if they would have the know-how.

Think of MG Rover when it was independant. They made stupid business decisions. For example, what would you do if you are running a flagging motor company? I know what, let's throw all our money at making a supercar. Exactly what MG Rover did - the SV. You will never make money directly out of that, you might have some halo effect but that's only of any use if you have money to build decent road cars that people would actually buy. It seems like most MG Rover group cars are owned by people who only bought it because it was British owned.

I think there's only one option left for us Duke...

Move to the Nurburgring, marry Sabine Schmitt, change our name to Hans, and eat pickled cabbage for the rest of our lives...

Race ya..............