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cry mich ein river... tns are utter rubbish and thats all there is to say about them
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cry mich ein river... tns are utter rubbish and thats all there is to say about them
The only thing that's rubbish is your general attitude.
No-one is arguing that TN's provide the best picture, or any other bogus claims. The picture they provide at the cost they sell for obviously makes them attractive to non-elitist/videophiles. Get off your high-horse, you sound like such a snob.
meh
i am thats why i still use a crt which i got for free btw
good luck finding a tn that can even remotely compete with it on price... or anything else for that matter
You're right... Obviously the entire world has made a mistake and you know better.
Is it that hard for you to understand the pro's of LCD?
Widescreen
Space saving
Wall mountable
Less radiation
Over double the energy efficientcy
A true flat screen with no geometry problems
Harder to burn in
A sharper image
Not effected by magnetics
Glare free
And if you check your answering machine you'll see that the 90's called and they want their CRT back.
If your happy with your CRT thats great... I threw mine in the garbage and am a lot happier with my triple 22 inch TN panels running LFS at 5040x1050.
To each their own, but to say they are rubbish is.. well.. rubbish..
its no different than saying why bother with a car! Horses are cheaper... you can feed them food instead of gas.. horse accidents are less likely to kill.. You can even take a horse through a river and on top of it all, they are not half as bad for the environment!! Cars are rubish and thats a fact.
The CRT that Shot has (an FW900 iirc) will kick the crap out of your TN image quality wise.
Although I'm not really keen on having something that big on my desk, and eyestrain sucks.
Although I'm not really keen on having something that big on my desk, and eyestrain sucks.
oh and by the way if you want we can ask around and see if my setup can "compete" with yours on everything but price
Here's a link to my "rubbish" setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHl_6tuuFc4
For a CRT i will gladly admit that it is damn nice... but at the end of the day no monitor in the world is perfect... I don't care if it's a LCD, CRT, Plasma, DLP, Over head projector, LCD rear projection, OLED or whatever... there are pro's and con's of every single one of them and none of them are flawless... none of them are even CLOSE to being flawless.
If he wants to sit there and bash TN panels I can bring up the con's of his monitor.
Shipping weight of almost 110 pounds.
It is not a true flat screen
It can and will have convergence issues
Sharpness will be good in the middle of his screen and degrade as you get closer to the edges
No CRT can display a perfect circle anywhere in the screen... geometry will never be 100% accurate
CRT's flicker
It is roughly the same depth as the viewable image size, which is great if you want to put some nice big speakers beside it... just make sure they're shielded or your in big trouble.
and.. Enjoy your radiation.
There is no such thing as a perfect monitor, or a perfect TV.. They ALL have pro's and con's.. you just have to find the one that suits your needs and budget the best. To call one "crap" or "rubbish" is really quite childish since they all have their downfalls.
I don't dislike CRT's in any way... I recognise that they are in many ways superior to LCD's... but LCD's are also superior to CRT's in just as many ways... even if your using a TN panel for comparison.
tn is a mistake indeed
(f)w900
buy a bigger desk/apartment/house
yay... whats the point?
maybe we use our monitors differently but i tend to sit in front of it which means i have a thick lead glass plate between me and the radiation... if you like to use your monitors with a mirror fine but dont act like its commonplace
true but meh
which youll never notice if its adjusted properly... unlike the colour gradients all over your tns
i have a monitor here thats practically doen nothing other than displaying windows for ~10 years and unless you turn the thing off and the lights up youll never notice that there is a slight burn in of the taskbar
which makes fonts look horrible and gave apple et al the brilliantly stupid idea to blur fonts at pixel or subpixel level... thanks ill keep my slight physical gaussian blur which is just right
which is important why exactly if you dont want to use it next to an mr machine?
except for those horrible glare tfts which are sold everywhere today that are 10 times more glossythan any crt ive seen in my life
use windows with the standarf grey theme and a unicolour background for a week on your tns and then well see if you still think highly of them
well in many ways tns are like those stupid flip flop paintjobs chavs love so much
sadly that one died 3 times on me and after fixing it twice i gave up on it so im sitting at a not quite as brilliant eizo atm
and eye strain has never been an issue for me especially not at the 100hz the fw900 will happily do at 1600*1000
i will concede that in a bright sunlight room a lcd is far superior to a crt in terms of achieved contrast ratio and a va or ips panel is actually rather nice for desktop usage
but im not the least bit sorry if i offend you when i point out that a monitor which makes it impossible to get uniform colours across the whole width and height of the screen unless you put it stupidly far away from your face is utterly rubbish
I've been using my 226BW for a year now and I have yet to find a use for all that space I've saved behind my monitor.
Or maybe I'm supposed to put it all the way at the back of my desk? It would probably make the obvious brightness gradient from top to bottom slightly less annoying.
Well, if you've been to college, moving in and out of dorms and apartments, moving in every fall, out every summer for four or so years + any extended winter holidays, 110lbs can be much more annoying than 15lbs.
Also some classes actually had work that needed pen and paper, and thus desk-space not occupied by 110lb crt's.
Sorry we don't all get off wallowing in awe of a uniform-gradient background.
Travel irons have their uses too, but they're not as good as normal irons.
You didnt offend me in any way... I'm arguing fact, your arging opinion... If your going to be stubborn it's fine with me.
These are facts that cannot be argued.
The majority of CRT screens are not widescreen.
I do not have a space issue myself, but lets get real here... All sorts of people play games, Young and old.. Rich and poor... and everywhere in between. Not everyone has the funds or ability to buy a bigger desk/apartment or house either because they cannot afford it or they still live at home. You cannot fault them for things out of their control... I am not saying one is BETTER than the other.. I am saying they both have pro's and con's.
If you cannot see the ability to wall mount a screen I will show you when my racing rig is done... which will be soon.
Ok.. your monitor uses lead glass.. are you saying that i'm wrong about a CRT having higher radiation levels than an LCD? or are you saying that the lead glass is protecting you from the higher levels of radiation?
Who says i'll never notice the improper geometry of a CRT? It's hit and miss with them, some are better.. some are worse. I can argue that some people will never notice the lower colours of a TN panel, but then we would be debating opinion, not fact. The fact is CRT's do not have as good geometry as LCD's.
You state that you do not notice the burn in on your monitors unless you look for it. The fact is its still there..
Your personal opinion that the sharpness of an LCD makes fonts look worse is just that, a personal opinion.. and if YOU prefer the picture on your CRT you have every right to do so, but the fact is LCD's are sharper and some people will prefer the sharpness.
I can have unshielded speakers beside my LCD it cannot harm it in any way. The fact is if you put an unshielded speaker beside your CRT I think we can both agree that it would have an effect on your monitor... and that is fact again.
You want to say some LCD's have a reflective coating? Ok... some do... and the fact of the matter is that the majority of LCD monitors do not have a reflective montor. That is fact. Those coatings are a marketing tool and they are there because some people prefer the picture with that coating.. once again they have every right to prefer it. It's also fact that the majority of CRT's ALL have glare because they are made with glass.
I'm not too sure what a flip flop paint job is... and as per the wikipedia on chavs apparantly they're some type of gangster looking person. I'm not too sure what that has to do with a TN panel but you can ellaborate if you like.
I see you left out my comparisons of weight and depth.. How come?
At the end of the day I understand the benifits that both technologies offer. Neither are bad, they are both just different... I just don't quite understand your difficulty grasping the idea that they both have pro's and con's.
In my example I have triple 22 inch monitors that are used for nothing but my racing cockpit. I do not use them for anything but racing games. They are built onto a sliding panel that is mounted to the wall and extends so the monitor comes right up to the steering wheel when they are extended out.
In my case I wasnt willing to spend more than one thousand dollars for my triple screens since they are only used for racing sims.. Also because they are attached to the wall on a sliding rail that extends over my racing cockpit they HAD to be light.. Imagine what kind of bracing would be required if I wanted to put almost 300 pounds of CRT on a sliding rail attached to drywall!! Also the bezel is much smaller for multi monitor gaming... In my situation TN panels were a perfect fit. Light, Cheap, Fast response time and very thin bezels for triple screen gaming.
You don't have to like TN panels.. I just hope you can understand that even they have benefits and they are far from "rubbish".
These are facts that cannot be argued.
The majority of CRT screens are not widescreen.
I do not have a space issue myself, but lets get real here... All sorts of people play games, Young and old.. Rich and poor... and everywhere in between. Not everyone has the funds or ability to buy a bigger desk/apartment or house either because they cannot afford it or they still live at home. You cannot fault them for things out of their control... I am not saying one is BETTER than the other.. I am saying they both have pro's and con's.
If you cannot see the ability to wall mount a screen I will show you when my racing rig is done... which will be soon.
Ok.. your monitor uses lead glass.. are you saying that i'm wrong about a CRT having higher radiation levels than an LCD? or are you saying that the lead glass is protecting you from the higher levels of radiation?
Who says i'll never notice the improper geometry of a CRT? It's hit and miss with them, some are better.. some are worse. I can argue that some people will never notice the lower colours of a TN panel, but then we would be debating opinion, not fact. The fact is CRT's do not have as good geometry as LCD's.
You state that you do not notice the burn in on your monitors unless you look for it. The fact is its still there..
Your personal opinion that the sharpness of an LCD makes fonts look worse is just that, a personal opinion.. and if YOU prefer the picture on your CRT you have every right to do so, but the fact is LCD's are sharper and some people will prefer the sharpness.
I can have unshielded speakers beside my LCD it cannot harm it in any way. The fact is if you put an unshielded speaker beside your CRT I think we can both agree that it would have an effect on your monitor... and that is fact again.
You want to say some LCD's have a reflective coating? Ok... some do... and the fact of the matter is that the majority of LCD monitors do not have a reflective montor. That is fact. Those coatings are a marketing tool and they are there because some people prefer the picture with that coating.. once again they have every right to prefer it. It's also fact that the majority of CRT's ALL have glare because they are made with glass.
I'm not too sure what a flip flop paint job is... and as per the wikipedia on chavs apparantly they're some type of gangster looking person. I'm not too sure what that has to do with a TN panel but you can ellaborate if you like.
I see you left out my comparisons of weight and depth.. How come?
At the end of the day I understand the benifits that both technologies offer. Neither are bad, they are both just different... I just don't quite understand your difficulty grasping the idea that they both have pro's and con's.
In my example I have triple 22 inch monitors that are used for nothing but my racing cockpit. I do not use them for anything but racing games. They are built onto a sliding panel that is mounted to the wall and extends so the monitor comes right up to the steering wheel when they are extended out.
In my case I wasnt willing to spend more than one thousand dollars for my triple screens since they are only used for racing sims.. Also because they are attached to the wall on a sliding rail that extends over my racing cockpit they HAD to be light.. Imagine what kind of bracing would be required if I wanted to put almost 300 pounds of CRT on a sliding rail attached to drywall!! Also the bezel is much smaller for multi monitor gaming... In my situation TN panels were a perfect fit. Light, Cheap, Fast response time and very thin bezels for triple screen gaming.
You don't have to like TN panels.. I just hope you can understand that even they have benefits and they are far from "rubbish".
Thats because the only difference that I know of between the two is one is portable and one isnt... we're not comparing desktops to laptops here...
If you want to be arrogant or stubborn and ignore the disadvantages of the CRT monitors you have every right to do so... Once again I will mention that the fact is they do have disadvantages. Some peoples opinions are CRTs are better, some peoples opinions are LCD's are better... Neither of those two opinions are fact and your opinion does not make the disadvantages disapear regardless of which technology you prefer for yourself.
the majority of lcds arent either... the whole 22" 16:10 is a new development before that practically all tfts were a completely useless 5:4
i see the ability i just dont see the benefit
no of course crts have higher radiation levels but if it has been built in the last 10-20 years it will ne negligible and getting on an airplane once in your lifetime will probably give you a lot mr sv of radiation than any crt (and yes i absolutely pulled those numbers out of my ass... enjoy!)
ive yet to see a otherwise functional crt that cant be tuned to give more than acceptable geometry
youre obviously arguing without even understanding why tns are rubbish so i dont see any point in going on after this post
sure but when it comes to effects something youll notice all the time surely is quite a bit more problematic no?
point is its not a universal advantage
most audiophiles will tell you that the softness of analog vinyl plates is preferable and even among people developing video codecs ive met a couple that thing the blockiness of digital film is horrible comapred to a good analog signal
why would anyone have unshielded speakers next to their pc?
speakers on a pc in 99% of homes will be either cheap rubbish pc speaker which are of course shielded or properly good ones which are far too good to place them with no spacial stereo width at all
this sort of thing: http://www.autobild.de/ir_img/477515_6d39f64f7e.jpg
although chances are you wont be able to see the effect on your tn
because ive already covered depth and any idiot will know that a crt is heavier
i dont quite understand your difficulty to understand that a monitor which is unable to display the same colour across its width and especially height is useless and doesnt even fulfill the most basic requirements for a display
i know lcds have benefits... tns however are just plain rubbish with some more rubbish on top
You weren't arguing that TN-tech LCDs were better, you were arguing that they're cheaper than decent LCDs, and more compact than CRTs.
Neither of those seem like very good reasons for buying one, given that they look like shit. A monitor's primary purpose is to display things clearly. If it does a second-rate job of that, then any other peripheral benefits lose their appeal. Unless of course you're looking for a more portable monitor that looks like shit.
No, what i'm saying is they both have pro's and con's... they are two different technologies that are used for the same purpose. Where as a portable iron is just that, an iron that is portable.
They look like shit? To who? To you? TN panels are the most common type of LCD monitor in the world right now. Do you think that when people go into the store and to buy a new monitor they look at them and say "Hmmm, that one looks like shit but it's cheaper so i'll buy it anyways"?? No, TN panels look good... Is their colour reproduction the best? No. Are other technologies better for colour accuracy? Yes. But they do not look bad... if they were that bad people would not buy them. Fact of the matter is most people have old worn out CRT TV's at home and TN panels look good enough to them. If they are not good enough for you, thats fine... but that doesnt make them shitty... shitty to you? sure.. shitty to everyone? Not a chance.
Perhaps people who don't know what they're doing / are legally blind might decide they're nice. Anyone who sees a 226BW standing next to a similarly-proportioned Apple monitor will only buy the 226BW because it's cheaper, because it will look like shit by comparison.
Sure. Everybody's got a budget, and TN panels fit the lowest budget. There's a market for them because they're cheap. I don't for one minute believe people buy them because they think they look good, unless those people simply don't know what good is.
For the record: I bought mine because it was cheap.
Really? I didn't realize that 5:4 was useless... is this fact or opinion again? because man.. wow.. TN panels are rubbish.. and 5:4 is useless... It's hard to believe that the internet as a whole has been able to survive this catastrophy....
You don't see the benefit of wall mounting a flat panel monitor? Have you ever heard of omnimount?
http://www.omnimount.com
They are one of the MANY companies in the world that specialize in making brackets to hang flat panel displays on walls. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say since they have a 2 story 50,000 foot manufacturing plant that makes mainly flat panel wall mounts that the rest of the world can see the benefit.
I understand that you like to pull things out of your ass already. That's why I try to use facts... but hey, to each their own.
I've yet to see a descent brand name TN LCD panel that the general public as a whole thinks is un-acceptable. There will always be haters.. most of them like pulling stuff out of their ass too... but they have every right to do so.
I understand why YOU think they are rubbish... My issue is your understanding of opinion and fact. I know they cannot display perfectly uniform colours or brightness and this bothers you... but to me your arguements remind me of someone living and dying by "There's no replacement for displacement" and just ignoring/trashing the benfits of technology...
Here's where you're missing the point... What YOU notice and what bothers YOU is not the same thing that bothers EVERYONE... there's nothing wrong with you prefering CRT's because TN panels bother you.
At least you said preferable in that statement, so you're on the right track. Everyone has preferances but you can't run around saying "CD's are rubbish" Don't you think that would be quite silly?
It's just one thing that could effect a CRT.. i'm sure there are others that neither of us has mentioned. Different people have different applications.
I don't use my TN panels for surfing the web
I'm talking to you on a 1080p 71 inch DLP right now or a 40 inch 1080P LCD, depending on what room im in. Once I can get a good quality plasma bigger than 71 inchs for under 6 or 7 thousand dollars I'll be talking to you on that.apparantly any idiot would know not to buy a TN panel or 5:4 panel too.. but hey.. at least your here to tell them they're all wrong.
Just like I don't understand why someone would use a flickering CRT that takes up that much space and doesnt have proper geometry and is as sharp as a ball but it seems to suite your needs well. Granted I wish my TN panel had the colour uniformity/reproduction and refresh rate of your CRT.. but at the same time i'm sure you wouldnt say no if I could wave a magic wand over your CRT and elimate the chance of burn in, fixed your geometry issues, increased your sharpness and cut your weight and size by 90%.
I guess I wasn't expecting you to stop pulling stuff out of your ass after you already have that much momentum... what can I say? At least you're good at what you do.
lol... ok, did you read the part of the thread where I said I work with pioneer elite plasmas? Arguably the best plasma to ever hit the market.. so good that they priced them selves out of the market and are no longer able to make Plasma TV's after next year.
When I explain to people what contrast ratio does I show them side by side a 1080P pioneer elite plasma and an inexpensive Magnavox LCD monitor. To me its a day and night difference.. The black levels on the elite are amazing.. they are grey on the magnavox but you'd be surprised how many people say that they either cannot tell the difference in black levels at all or that to them they are so similar that they cannot understand how one is worth $5000 more than the other.
People buy them because to them, they look good. Most people can see a difference between an upper end apple monitor and a samsung TN... but some cannot... most of the people that can tell the difference don't think the TN looks bad or "like shit" they just think that the apple looks better. I've sold hundreds of TN panels to people and when you put a nice digital picture on them, people would tell me they look amazing.. "ooohhh, look at that picture" but hey, I guess some of those people who were clearly both wealthy and driving must "be legally blind and not know what they are doing" where as you do. If you're that much better than those people you would not be buying a monitor just because its cheap.. you'd have boat loads of money and wouldnt care about the price.
If you spent close to $300 (or however much they sell for where you are) on a Samsung TN panel that you think looks like shit thats your own fault/stupidity.
No. Nor do I particularly care. I am assuming that we both have working eyes, which is what actually matters. Did I tell you that I have particularly impressively-proportioned genitalia? No - because it's not relevant. But I do.
Five grand is a big deal. I'd make a contrast compromise for five grand too. However if one of them looked all shadowed at the top and bottom and the other didn't - that's a bigger deal. At least with a lower contrast ratio you've still got a visibly uniform picture. You don't get that on a TN panel.
If I was trying to sell someone a better screen I'd show them three similar colours arranged vertically - so they all looked the same on the TN panel. Then re-arrange them horizontally so they can see that they're actually completely ****ing different colours. If they still decide they want the TN panel then obviously colour doesn't matter to them.
Actually I bought this monitor because I'm not required to do any creative graphics work any more, and I'm gaming less and less. I bought it so I can see lots of long lines of code at once. It's OK for that, but on the rare occasions that I do have to do any graphics work I pull out my old 19" Iiyama CRT and use that because it's impossible on this monitor.
Usually I read a thread fully before jumping in into the middle of a conversation...
Usually if someones backround is relevant to the conversation it it would give them credibilty which in my opinion is relevant.
Considering I work with and have years of training on what is arguably the best quality displays that money can buy and have sold a combined total of thousands of CRT's, LCD's, DLP's, Plasmas and any other type of display on the market, that to me is relevant.
Considering I have many conversations daily with people that ask me questions and buy displays from me it seems relevant...
What your dick size has to do with this conversation howerver, is in my opinion not relevant.
Five grand is big deal? To who? You? Money is also something that is relevant... $100 to some people is a big deal too...
colour doesnt matter to them is a big difference from "they don't know what they're doing / they're legally blind" Maybe you too are starting to understand my point.
(/sarcasm on) Right... that sounds like a smart solution for a smart person (/sarcasm off) Also I wouldn't consider anyone who does "creative graphics" work as an occupation an average user... that would be like an artist buying a brush from walmart... different applications for different people. Obviously someone in that type of field has a trained eye and would want something better when it comes to colour uniformity/reproduction.
hopeless...
do you know aynthing other than pc monitors (say video or picture formats) that is 5:4? => useless
a monitor is built to be placed behind a keyboard which needs a table... waste of money to replace a perfectly good stand
does omnimount sell senses of humour too?
the great unwashed rarely has any taste... and so far ive never seen anybody other than people i hold in very low regard who live on the other side of the atlantic use the word hater in situations where an emotion such as hate would be more than just exaggeration
the technology is supposed to display images... if it fails at that as terribly as tns do its not beneficial
which doesnt change the fact that they are funadmentally unable to do what theyre supposed to => rubbish
so how exactly is the size of your tvs important in this?
and how you can crtizise crts for their supposed flicker but be on the lookout for a plasma at the same time is highly illogical
if that meant that i would have to build something to keep my head in the perfect position with binoculars to keep the veing angle at a minimum just to get a remotel acceptable image quality it tell you to stick your wand somewhere else
do you know aynthing other than pc monitors (say video or picture formats) that is 5:4? => useless
a monitor is built to be placed behind a keyboard which needs a table... waste of money to replace a perfectly good stand
does omnimount sell senses of humour too?
the great unwashed rarely has any taste... and so far ive never seen anybody other than people i hold in very low regard who live on the other side of the atlantic use the word hater in situations where an emotion such as hate would be more than just exaggeration
the technology is supposed to display images... if it fails at that as terribly as tns do its not beneficial
which doesnt change the fact that they are funadmentally unable to do what theyre supposed to => rubbish
so how exactly is the size of your tvs important in this?
and how you can crtizise crts for their supposed flicker but be on the lookout for a plasma at the same time is highly illogical
if that meant that i would have to build something to keep my head in the perfect position with binoculars to keep the veing angle at a minimum just to get a remotel acceptable image quality it tell you to stick your wand somewhere else
But you still don't know what a shit monitor looks like.
Don't worry, I feel the same about you right now.. at least we can agree on that.
I don't a PC monitor for anything other than PC.... I watch videos and view pictures on my 71 inch or 40 inch...which are both 16x9
I use my TV's as monitors as well, right now im sitting on my couch with my microsoft media center keyboard on my lap.. it works great... no table needed.
I won't lie, I did laugh pretty hard at that comment.
In canada we don't use phrases like "rubbish", "mate", "cheers".. just because people overseas use them doesnt mean i would hold them in a low regard or hold it against them in any way. "Hater" is a word that some of us use and I don't see why you would hold someone in a very low regard because of it.
I'm sorry but I fail to see as how this fails terribly at displaying an image.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHl_6tuuFc4
I can clearly make out everything on the screen, and when I play LFS it looks great. Yes, you can put one solid colour on my screen and point out the imprefetio, but in a real world senario who would do that? If I bought this monitor to display a full page of one solid colour that never changed I wouldnt have purchased a TN panel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHl_6tuuFc4
I'll link this again so you can watch it again... My monitors are supposed to let me play LFS.. how you come to the conclusion they are unable to do so is beyond me.
It isn't, you just made a comment that I would not be able to see the paint job properly because of my TN panel... so I told you what i'm using for a PC monitor.
when I said..
I was not critisizing CRT monitors... When I made the above comment about CRTs I was sarcasticly doing so to make a point that I can critisize the imperfections of your monitor... just as you can about a TN panel. I really don't dislike them, they just don't suite my needs at the moment for any applications that I have. CRT's have some great qualities... as do all display panels... this is where we disagree.
I'm not too sure where you're going with this.. but if you were to poll all TN panel users I would be willing to make a wager that less than 5% (and I think im being very very generous)
a) build something to keep their head in the perfect position.
or
b) use binoculars to view their monitor
Most people who wall mount their LCD PC monitor do so with a "cantilever" arm that can extend towards them when in use, but can be pushed back against the wall when not in use. This gives you a dual purpose desk for stuff like paper work/homework or maybe eating at the desk while they're reading a forum like this
http://www.omnimount.com/consu ... 9ea&CurrentId=2.1.3.3
ok so far weve established that you either dont know what the word hate means or are just a total drama queen and that youre desperately trying to enlargen your epenis
well for starters its a tn
the majority of windows users i know that use a solid blueish desktop background for one
and yet it would be the only way to make a tns colour reproduction bearable
great thats brilliant and works almost as well as pushing the tft back against the wall on its stand
20" Vs. 22" @ 1680x1050
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