Quote from thisnameistaken :

But you still don't know what a shit monitor looks like.

It's only a bad panel if you're buying it for the wrong use...

Would I recommend a TN panel as your only TV for watching movies, HDTV or blu-ray? No

Would I recommend a TN panel if if someone came up to me and said I need a monitor that will display nothing but a full screen of solid red and has to look uniform and good? No

Would I recommend a TN panel to a videophile? No.

Would I recommend a TN panel to a graphics designer or profesional photographer? No.

Would I recommend a TN panel to someone who uses their PC for a few hours a week to surf the web and check e-mails? Yes

Would I recommend a TN panel to someone for someone who wants a good gaming monitor for a good price? Yes

Would I recommend a TN panel to play LFS? Yes

I don't sit there and look for the imperfections of each display type because I can show you images, paterns, colours or something on ANY screen that will show you it's imperfections... but why ruin it?

Look.. I'm into LFS because I love both cars and video games and the physics are unreal.. most people are here for the same reason. It doesnt have the flashiest graphics around.

Now, that being said.. when I sit down and actually get "into" a race.. you know, where you actually zone in.. your in second place.. last lap.. fighting for a first place finish.. palms are sweaty and you have a death grip on your G25.. your pushing your car to the limit and about to lose the rear end around that last turn.. if at that moment you're actually thinking that your TN panel is only displaying 262,144 colours than a TN panel is not for you.. but if I was a betting man I would say that is the last thing on most peoples minds is that..

If that one thing bothers you so much then you should be just as bothered by the sounds the game makes when your on dirt, or when you hit a wall... because those sounds are far from perfect.

Imagine this... 262,144 colours mixed up in a big pile. I'd like to see how many people on here could take that many colours and put them on a colour wheel without making any mistakes... also, colours and images are moving and changing so fast that you should not notice the brightness not being uniform. The only time I notice that is if im viewing a photo on my TN, which I don't really ever do because that's not what I bought it for.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, TN panels are not the best thing in the world for colour reproduction and uniformity but for most people they are good enough as long as they are not side by side with a better panel.

But i'm sure you guys will just tell me how awful they are.. you make them sound like they were put on the planet by the devil himself just to screw people like you over...

anyways im off to bed now.. good chatting with you all....

Quote from Shotglass :

ok so far weve established that you either dont know what the word hate means or are just a total drama queen and that youre desperately trying to enlargen your epenis

hater:
A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success.(or monitor) So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.(or monitor)

Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want (the TN panel monitor) to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock somelse(the TN panel monitor) down a notch.
Susan: You know, Kevin from accounting is doing very well. He just bought a house in a very nice part of town. (or a TN monitor in this case)

Jane (hater): If he is doing so well why does he drive that '89 Taurus? (Bah, rubbish if he had half a brain he would have got a free crt which is far superior to even the almighty god himself)

Hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.


Seems like a pretty fair word to use in this situation... I am far from a drama queen.. if I was I would probably use some sort of personal attack or tell you how my TN is BETTER than your CRT, which I do not think it is. I am not concerned about the size of my "e-penis" nor have I ever been. I'm just trying to help someone out with the purchase of a monitor.

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well for starters its a tn

this is why I called you a hater.

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the majority of windows users i know that use a solid blueish desktop background for one

Interesting, I myself do not personally know anyone who doesnt have a desktop background.. but you could very well be right.

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and yet it would be the only way to make a tns colour reproduction bearable

Once again this is why I called you a hater.

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great thats brilliant and works almost as well as pushing the tft back against the wall on its stand

except you don't have a pillar with a base on your desk... for people that like to be all wireless its nice because it gives them a lot more real estate on the desk. You can push your keyboard up and keep it where the base of your monitor would normally be but i'm sure you'll give me a personal opinion as to why that is such a useless idea.

At least this thread is entertaining...


Well, in the meatime, if one of you could figure something out for me, why not tell me which of the panel technologies my LCD uses? Acer al2002w. After reading this thread, and having two other LCD's to compare mine to, I'd like to view the difference for myself, thanks in advance, because I looked around for a good hour online and found no answer. I'm assuming it's S-IPS, I could be wrong though, the other two LCD's I'm using to judge the difference look the same, but one is the glossy type, not a fan of that, but the image quality is pretty good, anyways I think this Acer looks a little better, especially in games, pictures and HD movies.
..for good humor, I just switched from a CRT, no more headaches, wasted electricity and space, I'm a gamer so now my view is far better, I can actually see what I'm doing when I open my shades on a nice sunny day.. I like that the geometry is perfect, colors are vibrant, and I can take it with me anytime I like. And I guess most important, my video card has the power to drive all my games at the native resolution. I could go on about all the things I like about the LCD, also about what I don't miss from the CRT, forever. Until recently I had no reason to understand the technology behind LCD's, now that I do, I see no reason to ever own a CRT again, but I'll admit ten years ago I wouldn't touch a LCD unless I had no choice, such as, a laptop.

Quote from wtf im nameless :

hater:
A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success.(or monitor) So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.(or monitor)

no thats a sourpuss

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Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want (the TN panel monitor) to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock somelse(the TN panel monitor) down a notch.

there is no knocking down since tn panels are already bottom of the barrel

Quote :

Hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

inferring that you and your craptastic little monitors are even remotle able to trigger such freeling in me is pure superbia on your end which is exactly why i hold you in very low regard for it

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I'm just trying to help someone out with the purchase of a monitor.

so am i which is exactly why i tell them to avoid tns at all costs

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Interesting, I myself do not personally know anyone who doesnt have a desktop background.. but you could very well be right.

it doesnt even have to be a desktop background... most forums like this one have large unicoloured boxes which will look horrible in any decently sized browser window

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except you don't have a pillar with a base on your desk... for people that like to be all wireless its nice because it gives them a lot more real estate on the desk. You can push your keyboard up and keep it where the base of your monitor would normally be but i'm sure you'll give me a personal opinion as to why that is such a useless idea.

all that money would be much better invested in a larger desk which looks and feels much nicer



also you arent even arguing the point which is the shittiness of tns and not lcd vs crt
the smallish eizo ips panel i use at work is bloddy brillliant and i would have no reservations to buy one if i should ever find myself in a place where i cant find an adequate crt replacement for the one i currently use (and oled/sed still hasnt hit the market) but then again its the very best lcd has to offer unlike tns which fail at displaying the simplest of all images

Quote from DHRammstein :

Well, in the meatime, if one of you could figure something out for me, why not tell me which of the panel technologies my LCD uses? Acer al2002w.

its a tn

Asus vw222 is good, that's what im having right now

If were playing this game - what panel would my Xerox XM3-22wB use? It's very very rare according to Google and so I can't find out myself - although as it was cheap (£180 a year or so ago), i'd expect it to be a TN - when doing tests it looks ever so slightly darker at the top, and lighter at the bottom but it could just be my eyes.

those are all 22" and unless youve paid ~500€+ they will all be tns

Shotglass, let me ask you this. You are OBSESSED with CRT screens being the best thing ever, but which would you choose to watch an HD movie on. A big CRT, or an HD projector... and why?

a crt projector of course for reasons far too obvious to point out

Good morning

Quote from Shotglass :

no thats a sourpuss

ok well thats the most popular definition on www.urbandictionary.com so if you want to go and correct them, you're more than welcome to. When I say hater, just translate it to sourpuss.. just like when you say "rubbish" I translate it to "garbage".

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there is no knocking down since tn panels are already bottom of the barrel

Sourpuss

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inferring that you and your craptastic little monitors are even remotle able to trigger such freeling in me is pure superbia on your end which is exactly why i hold you in very low regard for it

I'm not inferring that, you told me a couple posts ago that I obviously don't know what the word hate means, when the actual problem was that you didn't know what hater meant. So I showed you the different deffenitions from www.urbandictionary.com and www.dictionary.com ... If you want to hold me in a low regard because I try to speak fact and not opinion - you have every right to do so.. but I don't think I attacked you personally in any way so I don't quite understand why you would feel that way.

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so am i which is exactly why i tell them to avoid tns at all costs

When it comes to our qualifications and presentations people are free to believe who they like. It is my personal opinion that its in the better interest of the OP to consider the facts instead of propeganda/opinion but its their money and they are free to do either... it doesnt have any effect on me what so ever. I feel I have properly mentioned the pro's and con's of them both TN panel and CRT in this discussion.

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it doesnt even have to be a desktop background... most forums like this one have large unicoloured boxes which will look horrible in any decently sized browser window

Once again, that is your opinion, however, you are not the worlds judge of that and your opinion is not fact. Have you ever considered that some TN panels are better than others or that maybe you had experience with older or bad ones?

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all that money would be much better invested in a larger desk which looks and feels much nicer

Again, in your opinion.. what if someone has size limitations, or they like their desk? What if they already have a $5000 desk? Their situation could be different than yours.

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also you arent even arguing the point which is the shittiness of tns and not lcd vs crt
the smallish eizo ips panel i use at work is bloddy brillliant and i would have no reservations to buy one if i should ever find myself in a place where i cant find an adequate crt replacement for the one i currently use (and oled/sed still hasnt hit the market) but then again its the very best lcd has to offer unlike tns which fail at displaying the simplest of all images

Did you read one of the many good resourses on the internet when it comes to buying panels?
Here's one..
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php
Maybe it will help you understand the difference in panels... because LCD panel types are different and rated by most in ways other than "rubbish" and "bloody brilliant"

Quote from Jakg :

If were playing this game - what panel would my Xerox XM3-22wB use? It's very very rare according to Google and so I can't find out myself - although as it was cheap (£180 a year or so ago), i'd expect it to be a TN - when doing tests it looks ever so slightly darker at the top, and lighter at the bottom but it could just be my eyes.

From what I've read online the worlds first non-tn 22 inch was just released this last november for roughly $500USD. That being said, it should be a TN panel. What you are describing exactly what we are discussing... along with the lower number of colours it can display.

Quote from wtf im nameless :

ok well thats the most popular definition on www.urbandictionary.com so if you want to go and correct them, you're more than welcome to. When I say hater, just translate it to sourpuss.. just like when you say "rubbish" I translate it to "garbage".

ah yeah the "dictionary" for the illiterate and those aspiring to become one some day
both dictionary.com am webster online define hater as the noun to hate and as "person who hates" which as it happens to be is the only sensible definition

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I'm not inferring that, you told me a couple posts ago that I obviously don't know what the word hate means, when the actual problem was that you didn't know what hater meant.

webster/dict.com

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If you want to hold me in a low regard because I try to speak fact and not opinion

so your facts are from a site for teenage boys to come up with their own version of the english language and vote on which definition is the most correct in their oppinion... is that about what you meant to say with the quoted bit?

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you have every right to do so.. but I don't think I attacked you personally in any way so I don't quite understand why you would feel that way.

you havent as such but the arrogance involved in labeling others haters always drives me up the wall

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It is my personal opinion that its in the better interest of the OP to consider the facts instead of propeganda/opinion but its their money and they are free to do either...

surely trusting the guy who sells monitors is the better path than someone stating the physical reality that the geometry of a tn cell makes it impossible to display the same colour across the screen
oh and by the way... 2 and counting im starting to understand your preference for ud

Quote :

Once again, that is your opinion, however, you are not the worlds judge of that and your opinion is not fact. Have you ever considered that some TN panels are better than others or that maybe you had experience with older or bad ones?

have you ever considered that it is a simple unavoidable property of the helix geometry inside a tn crystal?

Quote :

Did you read one of the many good resourses on the internet when it comes to buying panels?
Here's one..
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php
Maybe it will help you understand the difference in panels... because LCD panel types are different and rated by most in ways other than "rubbish" and "bloody brilliant"

no thanks i have read more than enough on sites which deal with the underlying principles and their implications instead of just stating a few cliff notes that do nothing to further the understanding of what were dealing with

Quote from Shotglass :

ah yeah the "dictionary" for the illiterate and those aspiring to become one some day
both dictionary.com am webster online define hater as the noun to hate and as "person who hates" which as it happens to be is the only sensible definition

Have you heard of slang? Different people in different parts of the world use words differently... i'm sorry this offends you...

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so your facts are from a site for teenage boys to come up with their own version of the english language and vote on which definition is the most correct in their opinion... is that about what you meant to say with the quoted bit?

Teenage boys? Opinion or fact?

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you havent as such but the arrogance involved in labeling others haters always drives me up the wall

Apparantly it drives you up the wall just as much as TN panels do.

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surely trusting the guy who sells monitors is the better path than someone stating the physical reality that the geometry of a tn cell makes it impossible to display the same colour across the screen

Just like it's impossible for a CRT to be flicker free and display proper geometry along with all the other con's involved in that techology.. neither one is better but you seem to put one on a high horse while bashing the other... Did I say a TN panel can display the same colour across the screen? No.. I simply listed pro's and con's of both, where as you keep saying the same thing over and over about colour not being uniform which makes them "rubbish".

Once again, the FACT is that people in this very thread state that their TN panels look great to them... You cannot argue that fact... all you can do is disagree with them but that is nothing more than a personal opinion.

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oh and by the way... 2 and counting im starting to understand your preference for ud

I don't prefer ud over a real dictionary.. Are you telling me that you and your peers do not use any words in a way that is not in websters dictionary? I was simply showing you what the term hater means to me and my peers.

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have you ever considered that it is a simple unavoidable property of the helix geometry inside a tn crystal?

I understand that it is an unavoidable property of a TN panel... Do you understand your CRT has unavoidable flaws as well? Do you think the CRT is perfect? Do you disagree with the FACT that I can put test paterns on YOUR CRT that _WILL_ show you the flaws of it?

Quote :

no thanks i have read more than enough on sites which deal with the underlying principles and their implications instead of just stating a few cliff notes that do nothing to further the understanding of what were dealing with

If you really have read more than enough on display technologies you would have a sound understanding of how there is not one perfect type for all applications in the world. How you can continue to argue with me about the FACT that all display technologies have pro's and con's and that different people prefer different display types is what shows you're level of understanding when it comes to display types.

The way I see it, I really don't understand why anyone would want to have a 100 lb 25" CRT display when they could have a 10 lb LCD that doesn't need a 5 foot deep desk to supply room for the monitor AND a keyboard. Unless you are a photoshopping freak, sticking with a CRT at this point is, in my opinion, rather silly.

When you stated that you would never recommend an LCD panel to someone who wanted to watch HD movies on, that was the point at which I decided to stop listening to your logic. That's ridiculous. In fact, I highly doubt that if your friend asked you for a recommendation as to a good screen to buy for his computer so that he could watch movies at his desk often, you'd suggest a CRT.. and if you did - well - like I said - that's ridiculous.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

The way I see it, I really don't understand why anyone would want to have a 100 lb 25" CRT display when they could have a 10 lb LCD that doesn't need a 5 foot deep desk to supply room for the monitor AND a keyboard. Unless you are a photoshopping freak, sticking with a CRT at this point is, in my opinion, rather silly.

My monitor sits on my desk (which is freaking huge). It'll take 3 or 4 people standing on it (probably more) and is solid wood (Oak, I think) - weight isn't an issue, and if it's too deep my room is big enough for me to move the desk forward and have the stand on the desk and the monitors overhanging over the back, leaving me the same amount of desk-space.

Of course a TFT is more practical for ever being moved, but frankly I rarely move my monitor.

I still prefer LCD's for eye-strain, though.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

When you stated that you would never recommend an LCD panel to someone who wanted to watch HD movies on, that was the point at which I decided to stop listening to your logic.

Are you talking about me, or Shotglass?

Quote from wtf im nameless :

Are you talking about me, or Shotglass?

Uhmmmm.... *looks through past posts* ...you.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Uhmmmm.... *looks through past posts* ...you.

When did I say that? Are you talking about when I said

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Would I recommend a TN panel as your only TV for watching movies, HDTV or blu-ray? No

Because I did not say I would not recommend an LCD for HDTV, I said I would not recommend a TN Panel as your ONLY TV for watching HDTV.

My first choice would be to recommend a S-IPS LCD panel if your using it as your main TV for HD or Blu-ray.

If that person could not afford a S-IPS panel I would still recommend a TN panel over a CRT.

Is there something wrong with that recommendation?

Quote from wtf im nameless :

Because I did not say I would not recommend an LCD for HDTV, I said I would not recommend a TN Panel as your ONLY TV for watching HDTV.

My first choice would be to recommend a S-IPS LCD panel if your using it as your main TV for HD or Blu-ray.

If that person could not afford a S-IPS panel I would still recommend a TN panel over a CRT.

Is there something wrong with that recommendation?

Ah, alright, I misread your comment. I was thinking you stated that you would not recommend an LCD over a CRT for HDTV. I'd been skimming through the thread and had read 'LCD' and 'CRT' so many times I was starting to hallucinate.

Yo guys! Hate to make my revisit so late, but I just realized something. I've been kickin' back, munchin' some popcorn, smokin' some ghaunja, and skimming through this thread.

I came here asking about 20" vs 22" on comfort level and size comparing. All I get is "LuLZZ TN pannels are teh gehh"; "CRT leik ownnzz mon"; "Rarrr I got three screens, ubberrr" and "Yo''ss nobody notices nethin monn, chill out"

Just kiddin' But seriously, this is one heck of a debate
~Bryan~

Quote from wtf im nameless :

Have you heard of slang? Different people in different parts of the world use words differently... i'm sorry this offends you...

which has no place in a discussion
According to Bethany K. Dumas and Jonathan Lighter,[1] an expression should be considered "true slang" if it meets at least two of the following criteria:

* It lowers, if temporarily, "the dignity of formal or serious speech or writing"; in other words, it is likely to be seen in such contexts as a "glaring misuse of register."
[...]
* "It is a taboo term in ordinary discourse with people of a higher social status or greater responsibility."
[...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang

not to mention that your interprestation of the word means its meant as an insult which further lowers your tone from abysmal to inacceptable

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Teenage boys? Opinion or fact?

fact derived through empirical observations

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Just like it's impossible for a CRT to be flicker free and display proper geometry along with all the other con's involved in that techology..

weve discussed and discounted those and in fact the entire trail of the crt vs tn discussion as completely irrelevant to the rubbishness of tns

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Did I say a TN panel can display the same colour across the screen? No..

no but you implied that tn was a suitable display technology which due to the inability to display the most simple of all images its not

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I simply listed pro's and con's of both, where as you keep saying the same thing over and over about colour not being uniform which makes them "rubbish".

all other pros of lcds are irrelevant to the question of whether tn colour and contrast stability over angle is acceptable or not

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Once again, the FACT is that people in this very thread state that their TN panels look great to them...

horses and water

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I don't prefer ud over a real dictionary.. Are you telling me that you and your peers do not use any words in a way that is not in websters dictionary?

irrelevant to whether or not i would use any of these to try to insult others over the internet in what began as a perfectly civil discussion on the inacceptable colour reproduction of tns

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I understand that it is an unavoidable property of a TN panel... Do you understand your CRT has unavoidable flaws as well?

irrelevant

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Do you think the CRT is perfect?

irrelevant

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Do you disagree with the FACT that I can put test paterns on YOUR CRT that _WILL_ show you the flaws of it?

irrelevant

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

The way I see it, I really don't understand why anyone would want to have a 100 lb 25" CRT display when they could have a 10 lb LCD that doesn't need a 5 foot deep desk to supply room for the monitor AND a keyboard. Unless you are a photoshopping freak, sticking with a CRT at this point is, in my opinion, rather silly.

theres plenty of reasons beyond photoshop many of which have to do with the lag of tfts both systemic (input processing, low refresh rates and switching times) and percieved (eye reaction to setup and hold displays) and others which have to do with the ability to choose a resolution that suits your preferences instead of hoping that some panel manufacturer shows enough mercy to produce the panel you want

Quote :

When you stated that you would never recommend an LCD panel to someone who wanted to watch HD movies on, that was the point at which I decided to stop listening to your logic. That's ridiculous. In fact, I highly doubt that if your friend asked you for a recommendation as to a good screen to buy for his computer so that he could watch movies at his desk often, you'd suggest a CRT.. and if you did - well - like I said - that's ridiculous.

1) i never said that
2) its all about price... i he was willing to pay ~600+€ for a monitor then there a plenty of lcd solutions that are suitable for displaying 1080 content on a pc screen... if he was looking for someting in the sub 300€ category there simply is no way around the sony (f)w900