Caring about the league is done by asking how you can help in situations like these...not displaying how accurate your hindsight is in a whine-fest. These guys are running this league for everyone's benefit without asking for recognition or praise, and are doing it in their free time. Constructive criticism is fine...what I see in this thread is not.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

If you refuse to believe that we've done our best to get the logos to you in a timely manner, that's your issue. The fact is, it didn't get put together as quickly as we would have liked, but we feel that 3 days (or even 2, Paul) is plenty of time to get a skin updated if not doing so means being penalized. Anyone can use MS Paint if it comes down to that, there's not really any excuse for getting a DT over this.

Perhaps the announcement could have also been made in the OP of this thread. That's one point of constructive criticism.

Unfortunately that one bit of constructive criticism was buried under an avalanche of insinuations, personal attacks, and gratuitous reminders of our past failings (and past failings unrelated to us). A simple suggestion rather than a page-long rant would have gone a long way toward avoiding yet another messy argument between Paul/3J and the admins. We're trying to be big boys about this but it's difficult when we keep getting dragged down into the mud.

edit: I'll be very surprised if anyone does get a DT over this.

Yeah, and who's fault is that?
Of course its me & 3J, we've only been saying the same thing since post #2 and #5(ish) which you've now agree'd with. How dare we muddy this thread, people could have read the suggestion, but others ruined it and argued about it, made false insinuations ('If it comes down to getting a penalty or slightly marring the aesthetics of your skin, c'mon'), and made personal attacks ('go tell mummy') ... Instead of being arguementative, and assuming everything 'they' say is negative and wrong, maybe try to understand what's being suggested?

Oh, and stick 'Fun' in there as false insinuation #3 for DWB
Whatever happened to this rule where people would receive DT's for their actions on this forum?? THREE times my comments have been taken out of context, knowing full well they were, purely to score points. Very grown up, and another good example being set from an organiser.


The more organiser replies the more 'Us vs Them' it gets, this is pathetic, the fact that people racing in the series agree things could have been done far better, should tell you something. The fact that now your changing your stance on 'WILL' get a penalty says maybe its a little too harsh.

Unless you guys seriously think people will refuse to put the new logos on their cars, What good does giving people a DT do?
What is the most likely reason a team would have for not following the instructions? Not seeing them, of which little attempt was made to ensure they would, or at least far better could have been done.

Giving a DT doesnt help put skins on logos, what does is trying to make sure everyone knows because people are more than happy to comply. Instead all this silly decision does is ruin peoples races because they missed an last minute announcement.

We can understand things took longer than hoped to get things available, but i think you should understand that some people wont see warnings made 2 days before the race, when most people are practicing, when very little effort is made to highlighting the importance you hold in having these things on our cars. You guys want this, so unless you'd prefer to give out DTs, wouldnt it make more sense to do whatever you can to ensure people know. If they still ignore you, then i cant argue with those actions, but with so little effort made I feel people could miss this announcement.
I'll put money on the fact that they wont with all this bitching going on though


Also, if you needed further proof at just how ****ed up this incident is, you need look no further than the fact that 3J and myself actually agree on this! Even Nostradamus didnt predict this would ever happen!

well, one thing for the drivers briefing:

What about the pit entrance on kyoto, I mean, I really hope that pulling into the pits in the corner (meaning just befor the pit limit) is concidered to be forbidden in the race, as I find it really dangerous.

Would be cool to get some clearance on that.

Quote from AppiePils :

Besides ~3 days ahead is still enough time to get the new skins done, as you and 3J already provided proof of that.

Im not really involved in this event, but i do find that we need to keep a constant watch on this thread for the week leading up to a race as not to miss anything.

Now for some of us this is not easy. Would it not just be easier that on the site, there is a method that takes 2 representatives from each team, and if there is some important details such as these skins, an email can be sent out to them? I mean it cant be that hard to implement and it gets that information to the team better!

Just my 5c on an idea to better things

Quote from three_jump :

well, one thing for the drivers briefing:

What about the pit entrance on kyoto, I mean, I really hope that pulling into the pits in the corner (meaning just befor the pit limit) is concidered to be forbidden in the race, as I find it really dangerous.

Would be cool to get some clearance on that.

Nice catch. The OP and the actual drivers' briefing on the site have been updated to mention the custom layout that will be used during the race.

Quote from AppiePils :

Constructive feedback, yes please, whining: please go to your mommy.

Ok then here it comes:

Please read the posts from the drivers/team managers more properly or is it a new game "BBO doesn't exist" or what?
You are quoting 3j with things he never wrote. (in Post#16)

I wrote that in post #5

Quote from BBO@BSR :

I hope the tracker will be ready in time for this race and someone is there to admin it, so the race can start at the right time and not hours later.

check Post #5

3j and BBO are 2 different persons !!!
(can be easily seen because we have different avatars)

Quote from AppiePils :

@3J The fact that you have arranged it in time, proofs that there was time enough

Well the next wrong thing.
3j arranged or has proven nothing as he is not managing our team this time and the last race.
I (BBO) wrote in post #15

Quote from BBO@BSR :

But finally we cleared that and we will have a new skin right in time.

So please if you quote or react on something then on the right persons.

----

Quote from AppiePils :

We've made some internal changes which should lead to a timely start and timely prepared tracker.

That's great.

We also have a new MoE Logo
That's great.

Could the (every) announcements usually a bit earlier?
Yes, but it looks like you are also working on that.
That's great.

Maybe a bit off topic here but anyway:

My wishes for the next Season:
- The MoE logos are ready before the league starts.
As the tracks and times are the same it should be no problem to produce logos for every race just before the next seasons starts.
As there is half a year of time.

- Brings me to the point when I ask myself if it is really necessary to create for every race a new logo? And to upload every time new skins and to have then problems when entering a race while you have to download 31 new skins and lots of helmets.
(We run in trouble last race for the 2nd time this season as there wasn't the start-replay of the race available to download and get a lot of skins before entering the server - In the end our driver was entering the server to late because of the downloads)

- Things that happend in this season when Teams get penalties for a rule that was invented after the race finished (engine damage/shift-p/points deduction) is something I would expect from the FIA but not from the MoE Admins.
Not that I don't like it like it is now or that we suffered something like that but penalising Teams for something that wasn't a rule before the race started is completly wrong imo.

Last but not least:

Quote from AppiePils :

As said before, we understand and agree that we need to improve in certain areas, but it requires some time, especially since the admin team has changed during the season.

That's the point why I (BBO) and 3j (which are 2 different persons ) and others are spending their time to write something in here.
We also try to help you Admins to improve in certain areas.
Maybe it's not always the best choice of words (well but seeing some things you Admins wrote in here then the feeling is mutual).

You have to live with the fact that when you Admin a league that not everyone is happy about everything you do/announce/think it's well-conceited etc.

Some of us have driven in a lot of leagues and expect maybe sometimes a bit to much especially from the "new MoE Admin team"

So try to get over it that not everyone likes everything you do but also remember that it is in 99% of the cases not a personal attack . It's usually more against the whole situation not against someone specific.

So these "you are all just whining" stuff etc. is something I expect from people who are 13 to 15 and not from you Admins.
Else it will be sooner or later that no one says anything anymore because they are afraid of getting called "whinerz".

I bet that's also not what you want as imo a league is also always living from the feedback of the Teams and drivers and of course from the organisational part.

But here it's more and more like: "to weigh one's words"
instead of taking critics (perfectly worded or not) for what they are good for.
To make things just a bit better for everyone.

Good post, BBO. Thanks.

Thanks for next season suggestions. As for the misquoting, sorry, tho since you guys are teammates my quotes are not out of context.

Quote from BBO@BSR :

Ok then here it comes:
So these "you are all just whining" stuff etc. is something I expect from people who are 13 to 15 and not from you Admins.
Else it will be sooner or later that no one says anything anymore because they are afraid of getting called "whinerz".

Constructive feedback is appreciated as said multiple times, and even processed or being dealt with. However we expect some workable arguments and not arguments only leading one way.
Now there is a difference between making a diplomatic reply, or constantly having to repeat to similar responses which in the end only can be described as as the w-word. And yes, I will say that out loud.

As Paul said, help us, we help you. Constructive feedback is helping, nonconstructive replies don't and they do lead to, again as Paul mentioned already, an admin vs userbase discussion - which we both should prevent at all times as it's the most nonconstructive form of discussion.

We fully understand that we cannot satisfy every racer, we can only hope that each racer can also understand that decisions are made not to pleasure a single racer, but for the overall league, and therefore you may disagree, it is something you just have to accept.

HI!

I noticed that it wqas beeing said that soem teams were running without nmbers and sunstripes in last round; we were one of the ones? that didnt have any sunstripe, simply because we (i as team skinner) didnt know if thats something tweak also took with him or not. And as i didnt read all of the posts, i would just like to point out if some teams are left with no time to put all the required graphics on the car, they can pm me via this forum and send me skin and i will make it for them. Just make sure u pm me no later than friday after qually, and i will sort it out for them. Oh, its in bold so it stands out a bit more to ppl who dont read all thats beeing said here, and i dont blame them if they dont really read all of this stuff said.

No regrets, no hostility, cya on qually