come on ... just look at the abbreviation ... rbr ... its gotta be a rally car

the fxr sorta stole my heart, but I would give a lot to have a super lightweight RBR. Not sorta super powerful like the others, but something light and tossable, with enough agility to keep up with the others.

If rallying is going to continue into S3 (when hopefully chassis strength will be taken into account) we'll really seriously need a rally spec RB4 strengthened from shell up with tougher suspension and a fairly stock engine. If you took a stock Toyota Celica (or Impreza, Cossie, Evo) on a gravel rally stage it'd fall apart in the first five minutes. £100000 a season to rally a Ford Ka sounds like a lot but that's what it will set you back to compete in the British Championship (without considering accident damage).

The UF1 would be great for low level Rallycross/autograss because by the time you've added a roll cage to a Mini on a standard A series it'll be slow enough not to rip itself apart.

IMO LFS should stick to mainly tarmac circuit racing, with the odd diversion to hillclimbing, and rallycross like it is now, I don't think Eric will be able to produce many long rally stages in the time he'll have. As for the cars I think stripped down Minis in the lower class (and please just get rid of the soft top IRL it'd just fold into a big ball). For the higher class how about Group B cars as well as some spaceframe missiles (seem to remember a claim they could out accelerate a F1 car to 100mph on dirt intresting if anyone could back this up?).

GotiKGotcha, very nice that the french community contributes to the LFS scene (and helping the RB4 being competitive). We all know that the RB4 has been initially created but that car is just amazing for drifting! impressive amount of lateral Gs. I'm speaking for the whole LFS drift scene, we would really like to see an improvement of the RB4 for later version of S2 or S3, and I think that this RB4 should be left as a road car not a rally car.

and about that GT300 and GT500 thing, i don't think i clearly explained it...

I meant more like creating to GTR classes competing in two seperates classes but in a same event

i think a proper WRC spec RB4 would be better, add a whole new class of car rather than adding a very similar one to the GTs

that Raceabout GTR looks AWESOME tho id love that

Quote from NaBUru38 :

In S2 the most powerful rallycross cars have about 240 cv. It's by far too few horses.

But only one car (the RB4 Rally) is also too limited. The XF and XR should also have a rally version, i.e. a FWD, a 4WD and a RWD.

Seeing as there are a large number of rallycross Minis wouldn't it be more inteligent to have a Rallycross UF rather than XF?

why are people associating RB4 with rally racing? (not pissed btw) a Mitsubishi Esclipe is a 4wd but not necessairly a rally car...


(me: why am i so stressed?
myself: i have a bad feeeling that the DEVS is going to get rid of the RB4)

And why, after spending the time to model it and balance it (somewhat) with the other turbos, would they do that? This isn't the LX8.

Quote from -DrftMstr- :

(me: why am i so stressed?
myself: i have a bad feeeling that the DEVS is going to get rid of the RB4)

I don't think they would throw away the only awd rallycross car Not that the rb4 being awd justifies its existence, it just is best of TBO class for rallying imho, of course

Too bad, the picture is gone from post #0

Quote from Horci :

Really nice render ! I like to see it the game, but an XRR, FXR, FZR competitor would be pointless. RBR is same like FXR (of course, seems much better for me ) 4WD, same power etc ... Someone explained it before.

The best would be i think to make a "little" GTR from it. 4WD competitor for XFR and UFR. Almost the same, or more HP, but a little bit higher weight thanks for the 4WD drive train.
As a "little" GTR RB4 don't need too big tires, like the "big" GTRs.
There is a relative small wheel in the render, and I rhink it is really nice !


So, the reslult, RBR have to be a "little" GTR

Yeah I think if not your idea then maybe a RWD to compete with the XFR & UFR. I've been driving the XFR a fair bit lately and reckon something similar but RWD would be great, NA, fairly light and with slicks.

Quote from NaBUru38 :

Or are you suggesting to forget mud, gravel and ice for LFS?

I would suggest to forget the rallycross things. It's a nice addition but there's no point making it better until the general road racing is perfect. Let's leave rallying for RBR.

YES! god idea finnaly some more exciting cars to drive (D1 style coming?)

Quote from -DrftMstr- :

.....(D1 style coming?)

Quote from NaBUru38 :

...
My best idea is to add:

- gravel tyres and longer suspension travel (optional) for the UF GTR and XF GTR (300 hp/ton)
- an FX0 GTS (350 hp, 1000 kg, FWD, fast but not too hard to drive)
- an RB4 GTS (450 hp, 1300 kg, 4WD, also good for drifting)
- an XR GTS (400 hp, 1150 kg, RWD, hard to master)
(all of them with 350hp/ton and tarmac or gravel setups)

That 450hp rb gts would be the fastest rallycross car simply because it has most power and and it's awd and thus the easiest to drive. FXO being the slowest because least power and fwd, though somewhat easy to drive. XR gt hardest to drive because lots of power and little grip. And putting fwd and rwd cars in one class is quite hard to make equal.

And having three cars just for rallycross is too much because rallycross isn't that popular. And there aren't enough tracks for it either.

Maybe:
- XR gt rally/track ver. 380hp, rwd, 1000kg with two different bodykits available. One for rallying with more ground clearence and the other for track racing with more wings in various places and maybe more fragile.

- RB4 rally/track ver. 410hp and awd, 1100kg, with two bodykits also.

- XF rally/track ver. 350 hp awd, 900kg, with two bodykits also.

Tires available only grooved slicks, medium compound road racing tyres and rough off road rallying tires.

The tire selection would allow the cars to be used in rallying, rallycrossing and road racing. The bodykits would make the cars look more purposeful built, because rally cars and road racing cars look different IRL. These cars would create two new classes, one for rally and one for track. In a way these cars would be the smaller GTR class...just a thought...

Also with little setting to fiddle with create a class where you can win with every car in rally and track race.

Quote from NaBUru38 :

You are making them lighter... they would get too close to the GTR class (if the UF / XF GTR are 300hp/ton and the three other GTRs are 500hp/ton, the middle is not 400hp/ton, I would sy it's 350).

The FWD+4WD+RWD variety is on purpose. The FX0 GTS would be better for n00bs but also, as it is lighter and the 4WD would not mean much difference, for slow tarmac circuits (which I also recommend for the UF/XFs, MRT5, LXs and drifting :-), while the XR GTS (if it had a little better power to weight ratio) would be the one for aliens, and the RB4 for normal racers.

I was tinking that the main difference would be the tires, not the horse powers I just have some doubts about fwd, awd and rwd cars in one class. The fwd will be slow accelerating out of a corner in rallying, the rwd pretty hard to drive on rough surfaces, so the awd would rule being the fastest and easiest to drive. Like the FXO in the TBO class atm.

And about that 350hp: the FZ5 has 360hp so it would get too close to it Though it would be ok too add some weight to them, let's say this:

- XR gt rally/track ver. 380hp, rwd, 1150kg: 330hp/tonne
- RB4 rally/track ver. 410hp and awd, 1300kg: 315hp/tonne
- XF rally/track ver. 300 hp awd, 900kg: 333hp/tonne

How about this then. More weight on the XR and RB4 and less power on the XF? The power to mass ratio isn't really all, as the power train in awd cars eats some power too. And rwd is harder to drive, though on paved roads the XR may be too fast with these values... And while XF has 110 hp less than the XR it should be competitive because it's quite light and awd. The RB4 may beat the XF if there are longer straights but in corners it will lose clearly to the XF because it has 400kg more weight.

To balance the XR against the other two it could have a NA engine so that it has less power/torque on low revs thus little making it slower on accelerating, while the Rb4 could have lots of torque on low revs making it little faster. The XF could be the HC car with hi tuned engine which wouldn't slow it down because the car weighs so little against the other two. All cars with 5 speed gearboxes. And exactly the same size tires for all of these.

No drifting for these cars

After some testing and calculations we now have a new class for the devs to create.

EDIT: Notice, that I'm talking about XF and you are talking about FXO

I think I'm going a bit too far with this but I actually tried those GTS cars using mecanik and slickmod and I think they are pretty close in terms of lap times, though things like tire wear and fuel consumption are yet to be balanced.

But the cars I tried were:
RWD XT "gts" with 3.8litre in-line 4, 380hp and 563N, weighing 1200kg
Rb4 with 3.0litre turbo in-line 4, 410hp and 568Nm, 1330kg
XF "gts" 2.2litre NA in-line 4, 300hp and 285Nm, 860kg

I tested the mecanik presets at Aston Club and in Fern rallyX using R2 slicks for all of them, with the aero set so that the Rb4 doesn't suffer to much. The values are little different than in my previous post. Rb4's engine has lots of torque at lower revs and the Xf is hard tuned NA with all the power on the higheer revs. The turboboost in Xr is little too sudden atm...

The turbo lag made the XR hardest to accelerate out of the corners but the surprise was that the lap times were pretty even. Rb4 was hardest to make turn into corners but the power it has makes it gain it back in the straights. XF handles the best though the main weakness for it is that it likes to flip at times

At rallycrossing the Rb4 rules. This is because I couldn't make any good rallycross setups for the other two. Xr is quite hard to drive agains the other two and the Xf isn't a joy either atm.

The base cars I used were the Rb4, XF gtr and XR gtr with similar tires and aero.

imo, we have 2 sets of the same car in different moulds already and i wouldnt want to see anymore of the same model.

do you really want 3 versions of effectively the same cars?

fair enough, a car that matches these specifications might be introduced, but hopefully it would be a brand new model.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

imo, we have 2 sets of the same car in different moulds already and i wouldnt want to see anymore of the same model.

do you really want 3 versions of effectively the same cars?

fair enough, a car that matches these specifications might be introduced, but hopefully it would be a brand new model.

Agreed. New models would be better because cars like Xr has already 3 different models, the LXs have 2, XF has 2, FXO has 2 in a way and Fz5 has 2. By the looks the RB4 looks more like an awd track race car (maybe more like a supra than celica) than a rallycross nominee.

Quote from NaBUru38 :

Can you give me the performance files??? I would love to try your work!!!
Which tool did you use? because I want to experiment too...

They are nothing but crap wip files.

I used mecanik and slickmod

Because the cars I used for the presets are very different from each others it's quite hard to make them equal atm. The XR gts (XT GTR) has massive turbolag and boost so it's pretty much undrivable at rallycross and hard at track too. Mostly because it is RWD and has small steering radius. The XF gts (XF GTR) is a killer on track, but way too understeery on rallycross. Still it is the fastest atm. I haven't even made equal settings for the cars so it's hard to comment how big/small the differences are. The Rb4 certainly is at best at rallycrossing atm. I made the car to have lots of torque at low revs so you don't need to shift all the time .

But it maybe better to use more equal cars as the GTRs have better tires and some aero you can't get rid of. Maybe the TBO class with the XFO replaced by the XF could give better results. Tried the cars on drag strip too, the XF was the fastest (11.40) and RB4 (11.60) and the XR (12.40). Needs more work to be any good

One thing I'd like to do is to make the cars have equal sized tires...

for the rb4 a idea is they done different variations like the evo fq400 etc so with the rb4 maybe have a twin turbo or a uprated turbo to give it 100bhp extra

Ok, my main problem with the RB4 is that it's a big, heavy, underpowered pig. Even a lighter, higher powered version would almost be too big (ie. wheelbase too long) for an effective rally car. I've put rallyx tires on the UFR and it's near perfect for rally, much like the MG super1600 in RBR. If anything, an AWD, 300 hp XFG would make a dandy rally car. But, all of this is moot until we get some proper rally tracks, as it stands right now on all avaliable rally tracks, the cars performance on the tarmac section is more important than the dirt stuff anyway, which is why the RB4 isnt the fastest rallyx car out there right now. :P Keep the RB4, as it does handle well and has a high amount of grip. It's strong points would be auto-cross or a proper rally-cross type event, where traction out of tight turns is more important than speed.

Brendan

I think the piggish RB4 is fine just the way it is, its not like there arent piggish cars in reality, not all cars are perfect examples of automotive engineering you have to remember...

give rb4 more hp..yum

i just want a real fkin rally car

But when it comes to drifting, the RB4 is a fairly nice car... Yes, it can be a tad bit underpowered from the power/weight ratio, but it's a price to pay for the AWD system. The RB4 can be very versatile too. grip drift, rally, drag( maybe?) I strongly recommend the devs keep this car, it's not a champion but a good overall performer.