Man there are some serious ego's in this thread, and a lot of armchair experts.

1st of all karting is a great sport, excellent for driver development. The earlier you learn the better. I teaches race craft, basics of car control, setup, and also helps with confidence.
It can be cheap, and you can run at the front on a relatively cheap budget. I know because i've seen it 1st hand. You don't need to spend mad money like some people do.
If some people want to spend a fortune, let them. I get the feeling there is a little bit of the green-eyed monster from some of you.

Single seaters are not "too easy" to drive nowadays. They might have an easier gear change but the fact is driving on the limit is driving on the limit, it's hard no matter what you drive.
I've had the pleasure of driving/racing some old single seaters, from 70's formula fords to 80's formula 3 cars and i've also driven modern single seaters inc Zetec, FF1600, FRenault and they are all difficult in their own ways. None any easier than the other.

BTCC has some top notch driver, but to be fair it does also have some people with just too much money. Plato, Turkington, Giovanardi, Neal and some others are all world class drivers. As much as i dont like some of them they are still great drivers.
Rubbing is racing in touring cars, even a bit of pushing an banging is fine. Fair enough there have been some instances of downright dirty driving, but i'd say 90% of the contact in the BTCC is acceptable. It's rough, but it's acceptable.

Oh, and someone mentioned Christo winning in only his second season... he's been testing cars since the "technical infringement" that got him banned for a year. He has more miles under him that most on the grid.

Hey Niki , I notice Eion's not raced (racing?) this year, is he not making an apperance in BTCC at all this season?

Nope, think he realised he was at nothing without a proper car.
I believe is is looking at racing something in Europe this season... can't say what yet

Shame, I thought he had some good results last year, hopefully the "racing somewhere in europe" will prove fruitfull (you are more than welcome to PM me and tell me what it is LMAO)

Quote from nikimere :

Single seaters are not "too easy" to drive nowadays. They might have an easier gear change but the fact is driving on the limit is driving on the limit, it's hard no matter what you drive.
I've had the pleasure of driving/racing some old single seaters, from 70's formula fords to 80's formula 3 cars and i've also driven modern single seaters inc Zetec, FF1600, FRenault and they are all difficult in their own ways. None any easier than the other.

Nobody said they're too easy but the element of physically driving the car has been completely removed in the last decade, mainstream junior single seaters now nearly all have sequential gearboxes with ignition cuts, which allow for two pedal driving and changing gear being a non-event with no chance of doing damage to a car or making up/loosing time. Combined with rev lights and limiters there's now no mechanical sympathy required on the engine/gearbox side of things.

Quote from ajp71 :

Nobody said they're too easy but the element of physically driving the car has been completely removed in the last decade, mainstream junior single seaters now nearly all have sequential gearboxes with ignition cuts, which allow for two pedal driving and changing gear being a non-event with no chance of doing damage to a car or making up/loosing time. Combined with rev lights and limiters there's now no mechanical sympathy required on the engine/gearbox side of things.

But if you were good, what your saying should be second nature anyway. Mechanical sympathy isn't a skill, anyone can do it. The fact that you don't have to be as sympathetic to modern cars doesn't make it any easier.

I beg to differ. Heel and Toeing on the limit, with an h-gate shifter, whilst racing in a group of cars (especially in wet weather) IS a skill, and it's a skill generally lacking in 'modern' racers. And that's just one aspect of mechanical sympathy, and it's all a skill of some sort.

Personally I think that's a shame, but it's progress, and it's undoubtedly quicker.

Quote from nikimere :

But if you were good, what your saying should be second nature anyway. Mechanical sympathy isn't a skill, anyone can do it. The fact that you don't have to be as sympathetic to modern cars doesn't make it any easier.

I completely disagree with that statement, back in the days when being hard on a car was more detrimental to pace, increased your chances of retirement and when mechanical failures were one of the largest causes of fatal accidents mechanical sympathy really did matter. Different drivers could master it to differing degrees, saying that it isn't a skill is plain silly, do you think that the modern F1 drivers could have been up with Jackie Stewart in the rain in the '69 German GP? Mechanical sympathy is a skill, and whilst it is less important today and has less effect on race results that doesn't mean that it's suddenly become second nature. Lotus engineers used to be able to tell whether a gearbox was Clark's or Hill's just by looking inside it after a race, and it's hardly as if Graham Hill was a second rate driver who abused cars

I'd argue that it still does play a role in modern racing, although you have to try harder to cause yourself obvious issues these days. Watch the F3 cars at Pau, with plenty of drivers retiring due to suspension damage, clearly choosing the right kerbs to ride and leave alone isn't second nature to those guys. Even in F1 you can notice how one driver always blows up and suffers more failures than the other, back when McLarens were fast but had awfully unreliable engines (due to the death of one of the Ilmor engineers) Kimi would nearly always pack up and DC, with same engine would have a considerably better success rate.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I beg to differ. Heel and Toeing on the limit, with an h-gate shifter, whilst racing in a group of cars (especially in wet weather) IS a skill, and it's a skill generally lacking in 'modern' racers. And that's just one aspect of mechanical sympathy, and it's all a skill of some sort.

Personally I think that's a shame, but it's progress, and it's undoubtedly quicker.

Fantastic post. Couldn't agree more actually

Good First Race, Good Fighting Shame About the lanky Shite Getting 3rd on Penultimate Lap, Adam Jones put in a good race though

Leading positions, BTCC race 1 Rockingham (provisional):

1. Gordon Shedden (GBR), Team Halfords/Honda Civic, 16 laps in 23m28.251s
2. Darren Turner (GBR), SEAT Sport UK/SEAT Leon TDI, +3.024s
3. Matt Neal (GBR), VX Racing/Vauxhall Vectra VXR, +3.575s


Fastest lap: Tom Onslow-Cole (GBR), VX Racing/Vauxhall Vectra VXR, 1m24.698s

Yes im watching. Good first race. Wheres all the drama? they spent last 5 laps talking about rain asif it was the end of the world!. The Seat's are looking strong, not seen much of fabrizio though.

Lol I no Did U Hear Tim Harvey! Devistating weather when it was Spitting Not even fully pouring down!..

BTW Anyone whos not watching It Live On ITV4 12:30 To 5:30

Race 2 Coming up very soon!

Hopefully Plato can get a better race in

Or if you fancy watching some racing turn to BBC2

Superbikes... Naa Cant stand Bikes Just wasted about 30 seconds Turning Over to bbc 2... I HATE U!

Im watching ITV4, dads watching BB2 , hes keeping me informed :P

Second Race was Alright Quite a lot of Action, Lucky for Jackson Giovenardi Went off.

Shame also With Turner... leading it for 11 laps then looses it But thats racing for ya!

Nice bit of formula renualt action makes me wanna drive the fox at KY Nat r

Ooh - its at Rockingham isn't it.

If the wind's blowing (strongly) in the right direction then I might be able to hear them.

Nope - I can't

Was there last year - loved it - first race meeting

Here are some (random) piccies.

Fantastic Last Race, Loved it! Adam Jones was a legend! Next year he should be in Seat Or Vauxhall!

Next Sunday

FIA Gt Championship

Next Sunday Coverage From 11:30Am

ITV4

Next Btcc race

4th May Coverage From Donninton all day On ITV4

I really enjoyed all 3 races, race 3 after the safety car was fantastic, showed some real driving skill. Plato's fight up through the field in both races was brilliance, especially in race 2 when he had alot of damage to his car. I could see it crabbing on the straights, it didn't look easy to drive!

Quote from Jordan2007 :

4th May Coverage From Donninton all day On ITV4

It's a shame I won't be able to see it.... As I'll be there Camping on the Saturday night too. Hopefully it's a bit more dry than it was last year!

Im Driving up there this year Just look out for a Ford Focus RS

Slightly OT, But I was watching round 3/ race 2 of the V8 super cars at Hamilton, New Zealand. During the race one of the commentators mentioned that James Courtney's / Stone Brothers racing team manager was Alan Gow. (sp?)

Is that the same Alan Gow that is in charge of the BTCC?

If it is, that must be one busy man

Quote from DratsaB :

Slightly OT, But I was watching round 3/ race 2 of the V8 super cars at Hamilton, New Zealand. During the race one of the commentators mentioned that James Courtney's / Stone Brothers racing team manager was Alan Gow. (sp?)

Is that the same Alan Gow that is in charge of the BTCC?

If it is, that must be one busy man

Yes.