I really enjoy driving the open wheel cars. As I lurk around here I see that most people don't like wheels that have less that 900 degrees in them. Is this something I need for open wheel racing?

I realize real world cars have 900 degrees or more in the steering wheel but for racing LFS what does that extra maneuverability get you? Even when driving my real world car I don't tend to turn the wheel that much unless I'm parking. I'd probably rip the wheel off my desk if I tried cranking it 900 degrees as fast as I could.

in racing terms? No.

For me, 900 is only fun when im cruising or drifting, but when racing, i always use 540 degrees or less.

The only time i use 900 for racing is on the road cars as a freindly race against a mate.

Quote from jarmenia :

I really enjoy driving the open wheel cars. As I lurk around here I see that most people don't like wheels that have less that 900 degrees in them. Is this something I need for open wheel racing?

I realize real world cars have 900 degrees or more in the steering wheel but for racing LFS what does that extra maneuverability get you? Even when driving my real world car I don't tend to turn the wheel that much unless I'm parking. I'd probably rip the wheel off my desk if I tried cranking it 900 degrees as fast as I could.

Simple answer is no you don't need a 900 deg wheel. Probably the majority of drivers in LFS aren't using such wheels. I use a cheap 200 deg wheel and I have no issues with maneuverability. I'm driving the FBM almost exclusively at the moment.

It depends on the car and if you want to play as realistic as possible. I usually drive road cars, so I use 720º, but some people use 540 ºbecause it´s more easy. I prefer realism
If yo oonly drive single seaters... you don´t need 900º.

yes.
everything else is just cheating

It's not so much about the rotation as the quality of the wheel. The G25 is simply a much nicer wheel than most.

900 degree is something like H-shifter: Increases the oh-so-important realism, but isn't necessary at all.

In terms of speed, more than 270° steering does not have any advantage whatsoever. Anything beyond that is just used for the sake of realism, and generally makes everything harder, especially catching slides in 720/900 degree mode can be tricky if you're not used to it.

LFS became hugely more enjoyable since I got my G25, but it certainly doesn't make you faster or more consistent.

if you want to win races use around 250º, if you want realism (except on single seaters) use more.

900 (well in the road cars 720 and in the f-cars i think 540 or something) feels just great. You dont need it, but it feels so great.

I used to have a 270 degree wheel and always found myself running rather small steering lock angles in the garage in order to get a sensitivity level I was comfortable with. This may have been partially due to the fact that my wheel at the time was utter garbage (Act-Labs Force RS) in terms of input and FF (huge slop, terrible resolution, and it squeaked really badly in one direction). It also forced me to learn to not make too many mistakes that would require me to countersteer, and I was driving the FO8 a lot at the time...

With the G25, I use 540 degrees and max steering lock on all cars.

for open wheel cars you dont need anything more than 270 degrees. For road cars 720 or 900 it's ok (in realism terms), but as all the people above said, is not faster (nor cheating as "not sure" said either). I bought the DFP wheel just because it was the best of the time (quality thingy), and because you can have some fun with the 900º from time to time

Quote :

Do I really need 900 degree wheel?

I dont know, do you need a 900 degree wheel? Do you want a 900 degree wheel? Yes

You don't need and probably don't want a 900 degree wheel, given the limitation of FF response in the current commercially available wheels you'll have a pretty horrible time trying to drive with more than around 540 degrees of lock anyway. What actually makes a difference with the DFP/G25/911 wheel is the overall quality of the wheel, not the fact it has 900 degrees of lock.

I've read that the main advantage of the G25 is less resistance on quick steering movments (due to lower motor inertia). A street going Caterham has 1.93 turns lock to lock, for 695 degrees of lock, and with a "quick rack" 1.6 turns or 576 degrees.

In an actual track situation, steering angles are less than 180 in either direction (total lock 360), except for entering or exiting the pits or recovery from a spin to get back ontrack.

PC controllers don't do a good job of providing real world feedback through the steering, so larger angles are used by some players to compensate for this. I don't know what the issue is, but I have yet to use any PC based wheel / game combo that give the same sense of caster effect feedback as a real world car does.

Have u ever wandered "boy, am i great in lfs! i'll try it in real life on gravel with my car...." then u try it and find out u suck in real life....
Then u turn all 900 of them on, and get used to them......an then try trashing real car on empty gravel road)))))))))))))

well, although people with less degrees can drive "better" then with more degrees, there is a catch, of course. I figured it out while trying to master 900 on my example (but other people do it too).
When driving with less degrees (below 360), during one corner people tend to steer rapidly from lock to lock which is impossible to do effectively with 900 (&of course not realistic). During lock to lock transitions tyres wear off quicker, too.
When steering with 900 you are forced for more precise steering, and when you master that precise steering, even in racing you wont use more than 300 degrees. exceptions are slides which become rare in that way of driving. and even when they occur, they can be cured fast and effectively with smart handwork (just copy moves from hands ingame

If you have to use more than 270degree's steering to drive a racecar under 'normal conditions there is something wrong with your driving =) I have turned my sensitivity down so that my first 1/2 of rotation is equivalent to a 1/4 of rotation in LFS, something like that anyways.

Like many people said before me, you don't need a 900degree wheel but it will make the realism that much better.

Video of David Coulthard in a F1 McLaren race car at Spa back in 2002. The hairpin is a 40mph turn, yet the steering input is less than 180 degrees. For the rest of the track, the steering inputs are less than 90 degrees. The steering "wheel" isn't even a wheel, paddle shifters aren't an issue because they weren't used in 2002 when the cars used fully automatic transmissions.

spaf1.wmv

The Caterham I used to own was similar, very small steering inputs required to turn the car, with an almost go-kart like feel, something that I've never experienced with a racing game and PC controller (never tried NKP though).

Video of a Toniq R and a Caterham CSR 260 superlight (German?):
Youtube: DMAX Toniq R + Caterham CSR Superlight

Video of Lotus Exige S and Caterham CSR 260 superlight:
Youtube Exige + CSR 260

Ultima GTR at top gear track:
Youtube Ultima GTR at Top Gear Track

Right... now take the RAC and try to run it on fern bay rally stage with 720+ degrees. Let me know when you complete a lap!

I remember when I switched from MOMO (240) to DFP (900), set to 540 degrees and tried RBR on a tarmac stage. I had always found the Subaru to be understeering, but was surprised that with only a larger rotation the car went from understeering to oversteering. It turned out I was always steering too quickly with a small rotation, even with heavily non-linear steering.

I can't say you "need" big rotations, but choosing between 240 degrees and 900 degrees (variable), big rotation is just so much more appealing.

Quote from Forbin :

With the G25, I use 540 degrees and max steering lock on all cars.

Thats exactly the setting I have found most comfortable.

Whether or not 900 degrees is needed is up to the user. Even while racing with 900 degree steering lock 100 degrees is most likely the most that would be used, unless the the car is sliding. If the car is sliding and the goal is to maintain that slide, then more steering lock is better (only with the G25 or equivalent) because more steering movement moves the front wheels less. The large steering lock value allows for more precision while sliding.

When it comes down to purchasing a new wheel, its all about Force Feed Back. The only wheel that gives proper feedback while sliding, in my opinion, is the G25 because it doesn't have any counter force, cause by the motor, while counter steering. The lack of motor resistance in Force Feed Back wheels makes catching a slide easier because one can feel when the front tires are about to regain grip, eliminating the "snap under steer" effect in most situations. Even in open wheelers.

In the options there is a setting called wheel turn compensation. If the wheel has more or equal steering to the car in game and is set to 1, then the wheel will be adjusted to fit the corresponding car's wheel turn. For example if the wheel is set to 720 degrees and the car in game is 540, then you would only have to turn the wheel 540. If the wheel is set to 720 then you would only have to turn the wheel 720.

Quote from NitroNitrous :

It depends on the car and if you want to play as realistic as possible. I usually drive road cars, so I use 720º, but some people use 540 ºbecause it´s more easy. I prefer realism

Same with me.

One thing I'd like to mention: I used to have a MOMO with 270 degrees of rotation. I was struggling to get comfortable in the road cars with this wheel. The main reason was that I never seemed to find a good setting for wheel turn compensation. It is of course impossible to map 720 degrees of car wheel rotation perfectly to your 270 degrees of rotation -- some compromise must be made. You can set the wheel compensation to 0, so that when you turn your wheel 1 degree, the car's wheel turns 2,67 degrees. I found this too sensitive around the middle, so I set the wheel turn compensation to ~ 0,8. Then the steering was nice straight ahead, but then of course the problem is that as you turn your wheel further from the centre, the steering isn't linear any more. Towards the edges, 1 degree of wheel rotation might correspond to a 5 degree rotation in game. I found this terribly hard to get used to, and I ended up scrubbing my tires a lot in the corners, which induced more tyre wear.

That said, I got my G25 pretty early in my LFS "career", so it could of course be that a lot of my struggling with the MOMO was simply down to beginners' mistakes. But I feel much more at home with the G25, in all respects.

Quote from ajp71 :

You don't need and probably don't want a 900 degree wheel, given the limitation of FF response in the current commercially available wheels you'll have a pretty horrible time trying to drive with more than around 540 degrees of lock anyway.

I wish people would just stop spouting that, it is just rubbish.

The G25 has great FF at 720degs and once Scawen gets 900deg going (Held up for animation changes and needs to be incompatible patch, think about it ) then I will use 900deg. I have never really felt like I had to fight my G25 at any lock settings. Can't understand why people say it TBH.

if you ask me ,

i will say no need for that .

but if you ask witch wheel is my favorite.
i will say g25, with 270 degree lock in lfs,
and 200 degree lock in profiler

i drove with a hell lot of wheels the last 6 year, (around 17,18 wheels, 7 different types)
but my g25 is just the fastest one, you are just more in touch with the road and your car.

and logitech last for me much longer then other wheels.
i am driving some times enduro and when you drive for 2 hours a logitech dont have a problem at all, but the thrustmaster or other wheel are just F** and burned.


greets,

Reint Jan