Quote from Blizzardo :

I'm pretty sure it's a bug, like others posted, it only happens in the restricted FO8 and not the non-restricted ones It's not that hard to workaround it, but it would be nice if it gets fixed soon.

As I said before I experience that problem with FOX too, although not restricted. If this happens on purpose then I will stand it, otherwise if it's a bug I totally agree that it should get fixed as it's very frustrating.

I think Evolution is right, I don't think this is a bug. Sometimes I have that problem in non-restricted FO8 aswell. I've never dorve a racing car with this type of gearbox, but i think this is a feature instead of bug.

Quote from [GR]Evolution :

As I said before I experience that problem with FOX too, although not restricted. If this happens on purpose then I will stand it, otherwise if it's a bug I totally agree that it should get fixed as it's very frustrating.

I'm pretty certain this is a bug, at least as far as the FO8 is concerned - not only because it was never mentioned as a feature by the developers, but because it doesn't affect the FO8 unless you restrict it. Is there any reason why the car would be deliberately coded to mess up its shift pattern in high gears when it's restricted? If anything, it should be more likely to work, seeing as the gearbox has less power/torque to deal with, shouldn't it?

My thoughts are most definitely that this is a bug, firstly because it seems so unlikely as a feature, and (as above) that it was never mentioned as something being implemented.

Sam

Ok. I sent a message to a RL ex-F3000 driver, probably he can decide our discussion. btw as I mentioned, this porblem can be seeable if there is no restriction. I dont know why dont you have it. Probably I drive the FO8 much more. But let's wait for that driver.

Quote from Dark Elite :

I'm pretty certain this is a bug, at least as far as the FO8 is concerned - not only because it was never mentioned as a feature by the developers, but because it doesn't affect the FO8 unless you restrict it. Is there any reason why the car would be deliberately coded to mess up its shift pattern in high gears when it's restricted? If anything, it should be more likely to work, seeing as the gearbox has less power/torque to deal with, shouldn't it?

My thoughts are most definitely that this is a bug, firstly because it seems so unlikely as a feature, and (as above) that it was never mentioned as something being implemented.

Sam

I must somehow have missed the line concerning the non-restricted FO8, I thought it was only happening with the non-restricted FOX. I'll have to have a play around in the FO8, I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened to me but I'll check it out.

Just to make sure, is it definitely this bug - as in, the engine cutting but the gearbox refusing to shift up - rather than your controller input not working?

Sam

ok, probably a bug. But hat if, this is happening because the gearbox (and the ingite cut) is buit for 450 BHP, but we have now only 330 BHP? This is my only idea if it isn't a bug. What do you think?

Well, I wondered about that, but I just couldn't think of a reason that would mean less power would cause issues with shifting... I mean, if the ECU has to cut the throttle enough to allow the gearbox to shift, and it's designed to do that at a 450bhp output, then the same throttle cutting should be more than enough for a 330bhp output... So, there shouldn't be any problems.

Anyway, the issue doesn't seem to be anything to do with the power ouput, as the throttle is being cut just fine - that's why we lose speed when we try to do one of the affected shifts - it's the gearbox that's not engaging the next gear. There's no reason I can think of that explains why intake restriction causes this, so that's why I think it's a bug rather than a deliberate feature. Sound reasonable?

Sam

Quote from Dark Elite :

Well, I wondered about that, but I just couldn't think of a reason that would mean less power would cause issues with shifting... I mean, if the ECU has to cut the throttle enough to allow the gearbox to shift, and it's designed to do that at a 450bhp output, then the same throttle cutting should be more than enough for a 330bhp output... So, there shouldn't be any problems.

Anyway, the issue doesn't seem to be anything to do with the power ouput, as the throttle is being cut just fine - that's why we lose speed when we try to do one of the affected shifts - it's the gearbox that's not engaging the next gear. There's no reason I can think of that explains why intake restriction causes this, so that's why I think it's a bug rather than a deliberate feature. Sound reasonable?

Sam

Indeed it sounds reasonable...

i had this issue as well, you can minimise the affect when setting up the gears properly and revving the engine almost to the limiter in 4th, 5th and 6th (3rd is also tricky, so rev high). Attached a setup I used in a couple of races where I managed to avoid frustration by using the above "technique".

on a side note, I noticed this in a non-restricted f08 as well. I don't think it is a bug, however I am not a mechanic nor an expert in gearboxes so I can give no explanation, but it seems to be too inconsistent to be a bug. It would be nice though if Scawen could give an explanation what this is supposed to be modelling.

Quote from hariel-HUN- :

Ok. I sent a message to a RL ex-F3000 driver, probably he can decide our discussion.

Hi, Thank you for the PM, and I apologise for taking a while to respond - I've been flat out with work, and away from the computer.

It's been quite a while since I've fired up LFS, and I have to confess I haven't come across the issue that's being discussed here driving the FO8, and I've never driven it as an FJR.

As such, my only real contribution to this discussion can be describing the shifting options in my RL car:

1) Accelerating, as the shift point is reached, rapidly lift throttle a small percentage (somewhere around 20%) at the same time, pull the shifter rearwards. Next gear is engaged and throttle is quickly returned to 100%.

2) Accelerating, preloading the shifter with a moderate rearwards force, the engine hits the rev limiter, and this allows the shifter movement to be completed. Throttle remains at 100% throughout.

3) Accelerating, press the clutch (even a small amount), (throttle position is determined by how kind you are to your engine - you could leave it flat - bouncing off limiter, or lift the throttle a little - similar to 1)), and pull the shifter rearwards. Allow the clutch out, and resume 100% throttle.

4) Install a shift cut system, which senses (either through force applied to shifter, or a switch against the shifting mechanism) when you pull the shifter and automatically cuts the ignition for a very brief moment (I have the recommended duration in documents somewhere), effectively having the same result as manually lifting the throttle in 1). This allows you to keep the throttle at 100%, and achieve repeatable, minimum duration shifts.

In each case, the requirement to achieve a successful shift is to unload the drive dogs (these lock the selected gear to the output shaft in the gearbox) to allow them to be moved to deselect the current gear, and engage the next gear. The mechanism for unloading the drive dogs is the key difference between each method.

In the case where you are manually unloading the dogs (by lifting the throttle) the amount is not usually too precise a thing - anything above about 15% should get the job done (obviously depending on the linkage etc), using more just means a slightly slower shift.

What is more important is the timing/sequencing of the movements. It's basically simultaneous, but if the shifter is pulled too early, it probably won't go anywhere, and if pulled too late you may get it out of gear (into a kind of false neutral) but struggle to get it into the next one (if you've already put your foot back down on the throttle).

Hope this helps a little...

Every explanation written here sounds logical (at least to me). Only Scawen knows what's going on... We should better ask him..