This is probably a pretty awful idea since it requires some sort of FFB shifter and it will annoy the hell out of everyone. That's why I'm suggesting it!

Most modern road cars won't allow you to downshift to first while moving unless you rev match. In LFS you can downshift to 1st at any time. This might be a neat feature to have if autox becomes more popular (where downshifts into first gear are really common).

Quote from Technique :

This is probably a pretty awful idea since it requires some sort of FFB shifter and it will annoy the hell out of everyone. That's why I'm suggesting it!

Most modern road cars won't allow you to downshift to first while moving unless you rev match. In LFS you can downshift to 1st at any time. This might be a neat feature to have if autox becomes more popular (where downshifts into first gear are really common).

Must be one of those US "Stupid People Protectors", because most modern cars I've driven don't have these, but plenty from the 80s do.

We don't really have any 'modern road cars', but even if we did have cars that might have such a system, if the car's been fitted with a shift-up light I somehow doubt that this protection system would be left on; because they are inherently restricting as far as gearshift patterns are concerned. Personally, I'd be pretty annoyed if I'd braked late and - unfortunately, but necessarily - had to use the engine braking more violently to slow me down, only to have some silicon having a go at me for it

Sam

Are you sure you're not just trying to shift into a first gear with no or a weaker synchro from a ridiculously high speed. AFAIK no UK cars have a system to stop you engaging first gear and I can't imagine it being done without a particularly bulbous mechanical system. Just like the declutching to engage the starter motor it sounds like a rather American measure dreamed up by idiots because they're afraid even bigger idiots will sue them.

You guys might be right. I always thought first gear had some sort of safety lock which is why it's only easily engaged when rev matching but now I'm not so sure

I can downshift from second to first in my 94 Toyota Tercel but I really have to push on the lever for it to go.

For reference, first gear tops out at 25 mph, while second tops out at 55 mph. If I'm going 10 mph or slower I MUST downshift to first. Yay for 4-speed manuals mated to gutless 1.5L engines.

The only kind of shift lock I know about is for reverse gear (the T-56 transmission has this, the same one Hammond complained about so loudly in the Corvette, and the same one the Aston Martin Vanquish, Holden Commodore, and Holden Monaro have ).

My toyota corolla can shift into first whilst moving (although slowly) but it is actually getting harder as the car gets older. My mate has a Honda Integra that he cant shift into first unless its completely stopped and he says he often does second gear starts which is just stupid.

06 Mini Cooper S, no prob.

Have problems going from 2nd to reverse though.

Quote from Technique :

You guys might be right. I always thought first gear had some sort of safety lock which is why it's only easily engaged when rev matching but now I'm not so sure

Quote from tristancliffe :

Must be one of those US "Stupid People Protectors", because most modern cars I've driven don't have these, but plenty from the 80s do.

What he's refering to is a low speed 1st. Alot, well, actually all the cars i've driven are like this. If you're going any faster than a crawl, and don't rev match, it will be very hard to get into first, or will crunch.

Eg, you're coming up to traffic lights in 4th at 70km/h.
Braking, down to 60 change to 3rd.
Down to 40 into second.
Down to 25, if you try and go into first, it will most likely crunch, or when you do jam it into first, it will rev much higher than you're current revs.

Most people in this situation just hold the clutch in and brake from second gear. Since first is a pain. Or pop it into neutral to come to a stop (though this is a bad practice)

And what I'm referring to is that cars in Europe generally don't have this. The baulking seems to be confined to American markets (and Australia is VERY American, so that's why you have them).

Quote from tristancliffe :

And what I'm referring to is that cars in Europe generally don't have this. The baulking seems to be confined to American markets (and Australia is VERY American, so that's why you have them).

I imported my car myself.
What i'm talking about is not some safety mechanism, it's just a mechanical property of the gearing. At least as far as i can tell

I have no idea what the hell your all talking about. I've never driven or heard of a "modern" manual where it had some sort of "safety" lock. in an Automatic maybe,....maybe. but not in a manual.

If you need a safety lock because you don't know where your gears are, just turn in your license now.

Quote from danben7 :

if you try and go into first, it will most likely crunch, or when you do jam it into first, it will rev much higher than you're current revs.

Possibly because 1st is a numerically higher gear? Would you not expect your revs to rise, and for the syncro rings to 'resist' the change if your engine isn't at the required revs? That's not a lock out - that's not being able to drive.

Quote from danben7 :

Most people in this situation just hold the clutch in and brake from second gear. Since first is a pain. Or pop it into neutral to come to a stop (though this is a bad practice)

There is nothing wrong with coasting, despite what retarded driving instructors (even advanced driving instructors) claim. If you ask them WHY one shouldn't coast they fidget, sweat and avoid the answer, at the very most claiming "because you are not in proper control", which is a cop out, as I coast all the time on the road and remain in absolute control at all times.

Quote from The Radness :

I have no idea what the hell your all talking about. I've never driven or heard of a "modern" manual where it had some sort of "safety" lock. in an Automatic maybe,....maybe. but not in a manual.

If you need a safety lock because you don't know where your gears are, just turn in your license now.

You're right, I have no idea where my gears are. I thought 1st gear was reverse OMG!!11!!11. I always wondered why I would have to drive the car backwards whenever I engaged first gear. I will take your advice and turn in my license. Thanks!

I know what you're talking about. My fiesta has this too. You guys are saying it's difficult because the revs are a lot higher, but it's hard to put it in gear, not to release the clutch. When I'm slowing down I can barely go from 2nd to first. In our Mondeo it goes a bit easier, but it also gives some resistance.

Same here with a Civic HB from '97. I really cannot engage 1st gear when the car is moving, even at a crawl. Though I can do it up to a certain speed when the car has warmed up.

With a low speed, I mean the car would even go faster at stationary RPM's.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Possibly because 1st is a numerically higher gear?

in most manual gearboxes the 1st gear is not synchronized.

if you want to downshift into first, you have to do what.. non-synchromesh-gear-box-drivers do/did(good ol` days): double clutch&rev match.
for not sync`ed trannys .. well, you have to "manually(by foot:tilt" do what syncros are doing for each gear (now that is.. "FUN"), not all require double clutch, but all require rev match/throttle blip/heel-and-toe(whatever you like to call it).
in modern manual gearboxes you don`t really have to do it.. unless you really care for the dog teeth and smoothness.
another tranny link, for the knowledge-thirsty guys here.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

I know what you're talking about. My fiesta has this too. You guys are saying it's difficult because the revs are a lot higher, but it's hard to put it in gear, not to release the clutch. When I'm slowing down I can barely go from 2nd to first. In our Mondeo it goes a bit easier, but it also gives some resistance.

The fact first has a very weak or no synchro means that the engine speeds need to be roughly matched before you can engage gear.

Quote from ajp71 :

The fact first has a very weak or no synchro means that the engine speeds need to be roughly matched before you can engage gear.

Oh, sorry, I don't really know that much about it. Thought if you kicked the clutch in it didn't really matter that much what gear you got in. Because it goes smoothly with every gear except the first..
My bad

Quote from ajp71 :

The fact first has a very weak or no synchro means that the engine speeds need to be roughly matched before you can engage gear.

that should be just good old comon sense.

I'm not sure how fast people are going when they try to down shift to first, but you only "need" it when at a light or stop sign.

On the east coast, many autox's have 1st gear turns.

Quote from STF :

in most manual gearboxes the 1st gear is not synchronized.

if you want to downshift into first, you have to do what.. non-synchromesh-gear-box-drivers do/did(good ol` days): double clutch&rev match.
for not sync`ed trannys .. well, you have to "manually(by foot:tilt" do what syncros are doing for each gear (now that is.. "FUN"), not all require double clutch, but all require rev match/throttle blip/heel-and-toe(whatever you like to call it).
in modern manual gearboxes you don`t really have to do it.. unless you really care for the dog teeth and smoothness.
another tranny link, for the knowledge-thirsty guys here.

What year are you living in where 1st isn't syncronised? I can downshift into first, without problem, all of the time. Of course I've never tried at 60mph (that would be stupid), but below 20mph it's easy in every car I've driven manufactured since about 1985

Quote from Technique :

On the east coast, many autox's have 1st gear turns.

Surely if you did competition you would remove this sort of get-in-the-way electronic retard-proofing?

@tc.
The company car i`m driving(2007), has a JR5 geabox.. (renault)
when i try to shift into 1st aproaching a red light turned green, (even at 15-20 km/h) i find it really hard to shift, without blipping , i mean.. i`d have to use force, and.. meh.
at first i thought 1st gear must be synchronized, but i drove it when it was brand new. so, worn syncro - out of the question, unless.. it was flawed when we bought it.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Surely if you did competition you would remove this sort of get-in-the-way electronic retard-proofing?

I would certainly hope so, but I guess not, otherwisse we wouldn't be having this conversation