Quote from (SaM) :

People connecting to servers to watch the server would suck bandwidth off from the host. That sucks. And the demo racers arent even paying for it.

Being able to watch replay files from S1 or S2 by anyone is another story and shouldnt be that hard. But what is 24 Pounds to be able to see and drive all?

(Funny fact: while trying to type the POUND sign, I launched LFS because I pressed ALT + L; my LFS shortcut! I forgot about it! Oh happy days!)

So whats the differene between a race that has 15 spectators and 5 racers and the next race that has all 20 people racing? I don't see how that could logically suck bandwidth off the host because at the end of the day the total number of people is still 20.

If anthing, I believe spectators probably use less bandwidth because their car positions don't need to be updated to the other racers, therefore, that to me seems like it would suck less bandwidth

I like the idea of S1 people being able to access S2 servers but limited to what is unlocked. I think the main issue is security though, I think I might have read something about this by a dev before but can't confirm that.

It would give the S1 people a taste of what they are missing...

Quote from Rotary :

It would give the S1 people a taste of what they are missing...

It would also mean that an S1 lic person could actually log on and use S1 content, not just see a ghost town

Plenty of us S2 Lic guys still enjoy the S1 content and do race those combos but we do it under demo mode or S2 mode, so anyone with S1 only is really not able to utilise it at all for online content

Quote from Rotary :

So whats the differene between a race that..

Of course spectators suck bandwidth from the server.

Take an S2 server with 12 people racing. Now if let's say the S1 players weren't able to spectate, the server has to send and receive data from 12 players.

Now, if our 5 happy S1 players were able to spectate, that same server would now have to send data to 17 people and receive data from 12. -> more bandwidth used, causing a slower server than without spectators.

Simple math.
Just let them play the great demo, look at the quadripple million movies and screenshots of S2 and buy S2.

Quote from (SaM) :

Of course spectators suck bandwidth from the server.

Take an S2 server with 12 people racing. Now if let's say the S1 players weren't able to spectate, the server has to send and receive data from 12 players.

Now, if our 5 happy S1 players were able to spectate, that same server would now have to send data to 17 people and receive data from 12. -> more bandwidth used, causing a slower server than without spectators.

Simple math.
Just let them play the great demo, look at the quadripple million movies and screenshots of S2 and buy S2.

Yes but a server that is set up for 20 connections can handle the extra spectators and what rotary is saying is that if someone is specing then the server isn't sending you an extra packet for his car, so while the server is requiring a little more bandwidth (that it does have available) you as a racer on that server want be needing extra bandwidth for the extra guy specing

BTW I don't think it's necessary for S1 Lic people to spec S2 content servers, but having S1 content servers and S2 servers in one list and only be able to join the server you have a lic for would be a good idea I think (especially when S3 comes along too )

I think letting s1 licenses race on s1 cars and tracks, but on 's2' servers, would be good. of course there are things that would need to happen for this to occur, that's why this is the suggestions forum and the devs decide what to do

please, let the dead stay dead.... eerie zombie threads scare me :| (anyone watch diggnation?)

I see what you mean B2B@300, but that'd work on those 100mbit servers that can handle a full pack of racers and 5 spectators. But the thing is, most servers arent and it would be disadvantageous for those servers.

Haha, how is B2B@300 an email adress? stupid forum!

OK, for a moment lets just put the spectation issue aside.

Is everyone agreeable to the idea of merging the lists?

Quote from Victor :

i'm not giving any answer to this thread here, but i just wanted to note that all of the people who posted in this thread are S2 licensed, except for 1 guy, Gabkicks.

no-one has mentioned yet that _it actually is a problem_. So, is it? So far I'm not convinced it is. Why are the S1 hosts empty? Maybe because there are barely any active S1 racers in the first place. So why should we go through the trouble of rewriting the whole unlocking code, to provide a non-existing usergroup with an additional feature?

Just shining light from a different perspective here.

Missed this thread the first time around, but here goes...

Perhaps the reason this userbase doesn't exist is exactly because the S1 hosts are empty. Catch22 if you like. No one plays on the S1 servers because no one else plays on the S1 servers, and as for all of this "s1 server", "s2 server" distinction, it's all arse biscuits.

The users that should be allowed to join a race should be based purely on the content they have paid for (I think someone mentioned this earlier).
As such, if a server is running BLGP with the XRT & XFG then S1 & S2 patrons should be able to play.
If a server is running BLGP with XRT & FXR then only S2 patrons should be able to play because only they have unlocked the content.

The S2 content is NOT encrypted as some have seemed to point out so that is a non issue. Access to S2 content is placed purely on authentication with the master server.

Demo users are fine as they are, but any S1 customers are stuck with something they can't use as intended for either an oversight or a simple discrimination based on how much they've paid.

Why still sell S1 licenses when you know that the customer can't use the game as intended? I know I'd be pissed if it were me.

gah, I hate responding to bygone threads without realising...!!

Anarchi, there has been an S1 age for so many time already I say. It has lasted long enough for the mere 12 pounds.
Now though, it's time to move on to S2 if they wish. LFS is progressing.

Quote from (SaM) :

Anarchi, there has been an S1 age for so many time already I say. It has lasted long enough for the mere 12 pounds.
Now though, it's time to move on to S2 if they wish. LFS is progressing.

*Edit* Fair enough... I just checked the site and they are no longer selling S1 licenses.

Let the S1-people come to the S2-servers, okay. But please don't let the demo-people into the S2-servers. I like blackwood and I like slower cars, but I don't like demo-crashers.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

Let the S1-people come to the S2-servers, okay. But please don't let the demo-people into the S2-servers. I like blackwood and I like slower cars, but I don't like demo-crashers.

Vain

This is where I would like to be able to change the thread name... It was mentioned before > leave the demo as it is, only merge S1/S2...
(moderator contacted...)

Quote from Anarchi-H :

*Edit* Fair enough... I just checked the site and they are no longer selling S1 licenses.

Shiver me timbers, you're right! So much for the 3-tier purchase setup. S1 was cheap by any standard and S2 is in the mid to low range of PC game prices. By the time S3 rolls around it'll be at the very high end of game prices. For us the upgrade will only be a low 12 pounds, but for new players it'll have lost the incentive of a low cost of entry with options for car/track expansions.

Quote from (SaM) :

Of course spectators suck bandwidth from the server.

Take an S2 server with 12 people racing. Now if let's say the S1 players weren't able to spectate, the server has to send and receive data from 12 players.

Now, if our 5 happy S1 players were able to spectate, that same server would now have to send data to 17 people and receive data from 12. -> more bandwidth used, causing a slower server than without spectators.

Simple math.
Just let them play the great demo, look at the quadripple million movies and screenshots of S2 and buy S2.

You obviously didn't read my post very well... I never said spectators don't suck bandwidth I said "... whats the differene between a race that has 15 spectators and 5 racers and the next race that has all 20 people racing?"

At the end of the day its still only 20 people in the one server isn't it?? I also mentioned that spectators *may* use less bandwidth, but I don't know that for fact.

You mentioned simple math, heres some for you.

20 + 0 = 20
15 + 5 = 20



If a server is set up to handle 17 connections then how could what you posted be an issue?? Its not like anyone uses extra bandwidth just because they are S1 and not S2. If the server is set to take 17 then it doesn't matter at all, it can handle it 17 people. period. Simple math again isn't it??

And B2B@300 post is a further explaination of my post.

So to clarify and make it simple... it wouldn't matter what type of license someone has thats in a server, if a server has 12 in it but set up to take 17 people and 5 S1 people join - how is that goning be worse than if it was 5 S2 people joining instead of the S1 people? At the end of the day its still 17 people in a server that is set up to handle 17 people.... think about it using simple math. 12 + 5 = 17...

Further to my above post, this might help explain what I mean…

A live raft designed to handle 20 people is drifting in the ocean with 10 Australians onboard. They come across a group of 10 Irishmen alive but floating in the ocean. As the group of Australians approach the Irish they start to argue about if the boat can handle them:

“10 Irishmen will be too much of a burden to the boat” someone says.

… ??? … what, so another 10 Australians won’t be?? Where’s the logic in that?

10 + 10 = 20. The boat can handle 20 people. How would it matter if they are Australian or Irish? How does it matter if they are S1 or S2 licensed? If something is designed to carry 20 people, whether it be a boat or LFS server, then it doesn’t matter who they are.

I can’t make any logical sense out of your post on how it would be a burden to S2 servers, just like its not logical to think a boat with 10 Australians onboard designed to take 20 people can’t handle a further 10 because they are Irish… it just doesn’t add up. You said so yourself; 12 (S2 people) + 5 (S1 people) = 17 on the server. Well, 12 (S2 people) + 5 (S2 people) = 17 people on the server too. What am I missing? What would it matter? Since when is 17 not 17?

Anywho, this is pointless. I doubt there are even enough S1 people out there to warrant the recoding of LFS to makes this idea possible.

Quote from cannonfodder :

Shiver me timbers, you're right! So much for the 3-tier purchase setup. S1 was cheap by any standard and S2 is in the mid to low range of PC game prices. By the time S3 rolls around it'll be at the very high end of game prices. For us the upgrade will only be a low 12 pounds, but for new players it'll have lost the incentive of a low cost of entry with options for car/track expansions.

Well think about that, why would the devs want people to buy S1? They will be like "Yeah sweet, S1! Let's go online and race!"
......
......
......
"...Where the hell is everybody!? F this game!"

I voted for option three, but...

I think it may be good if an S1 and Demo user could be able to play S2 mpr replays offline. This would give them a glimpse of what they are missing, a chance to 'ride' in the cars and see the tracks without the problem of them using server bandwidth. This might get a few people who are currently content with the demo to actually cough up for an S2 license.