Quote from flymike91 :

surprisingly, I don't really have a lot to say about this except reiterate that if guns were outlawed, criminals would still have them and be able to do any crime without fear of being blasted by some home owner with a 12-guage. I don't care about waiting periods, background checks, or any of those things that go along with buying a gun because anybody who goes into a gun store and says, "I need a gun right now" probably isn't buying it to put under his bed or in the kitchen drawer. I think the legal age to own a gun should be raised to 21. Its kind of weird that you can legally buy a gun, serve in the military, and vote before you can have a beer.

Hmmm... I'm all for Gun Control as long as I'm the one in control.

In the US, we HAVE to have access to firearms, it's just that simple.
The port shooting in Australia where 35 people were killed..... how come was the response to take guns away from law abiding people instead of allowing concealed weapons permits? We did that here in Texas after the Luby's Massacre (22 people dead) and haven't had a mass shooting since. Except for when the Gov't came down on the branch davidians.
We also recently passed the Castle law. It gives citizens more leeway when using deadly force to defend themselves. It used to be you had to prove imminent threat to life or property to justify killing the bad guy. It's about the same as before, but now you can blow away a burglar when he is in the act of breaking in, instead of waiting around to see if the scumbag is going to threaten you. Not that Grand juries would indict anyone for doing so before the law was passed, but it protects us now from grand juries that might be inclined to do so to set an example.
I'd be afraid if they did put up prohibitions against firearms here. You'd have all these unregistered and untraceable guns flowing in the streets like narcotics. Gun related crime would go through the roof. and since there would be penalties for having these firearms... alot of cops would probably get shot. LOL you'd have illegal bullets being manufactured next to an abandoned speed lab that would cut through kevlar like a hot knife through butter.

I remember reading somewhere about a woman in California. She was being hassled and threatened by her EX and wanted to purchase a firearm to protect herself. California has a 15 day (?) waiting period from the time of purchase to actually getting the gun. She didn't live the 15 days. Washington DC has one of the stupidest gun control laws in America. It's so bad it's a menace to public safety. If I'm not mistaken, a security guard there was turned down applying for a hand gun (why do you have to ask a criminal for permission to get a gun?) for his job. FOR HIS JOB!!! and was gunned down.

LOL I think anyone in the US that's for gun control has never been a victim and then told by the police, "sorry there's nothing we can do". Hell, I don't even bother with calling them anymore.

Quote from flymike91 :

surprisingly, I don't really have a lot to say about this except reiterate that if guns were outlawed, criminals would still have them and be able to do any crime without fear of being blasted by some home owner with a 12-guage. I don't care about waiting periods, background checks, or any of those things that go along with buying a gun because anybody who goes into a gun store and says, "I need a gun right now" probably isn't buying it to put under his bed or in the kitchen drawer. I think the legal age to own a gun should be raised to 21. Its kind of weird that you can legally buy a gun, serve in the military, and vote before you can have a beer.

in finland you need to be 15 years old, i think it should be raised too. or than every every year person in age of 15-20 should be visiting police station where they are testing your mental stability.

I didn't think about the waiting period causing deaths. But I'll concede that it is a two sided issue. Either someone comes in saying "I need a gun now" to kill somebody or threaten them, or says "I need a gun now" in order to protect themselves from an imminent threat. Not to speak ill of the dead, but the woman probably should have asked for help from the police, who would have definitely helped her if I know the police in CA.
CA is a terrible example for any state to follow. There was a case in LA where a woman was alone in her house when a criminal tried to break in through a skylight. He fell through the skylight into her kitchen and almost bled out (i wish he had) he sued her in court and won on the grounds that the jury decided her roof was too hazardous and that the skylight was a booby trap. SHE is now serving ten years in a woman's prison. The criminal is already out. in CA, criminals have far more rights than civilians. You cannot shoot people in your house unless they have already harmed you (them saying they will kill you is not enough cause.) its pretty ridiculous here.

Quote from mrodgers :

No. Tie them up at your desk, with his hands also tied to your wheel controller. Log him onto a demo server, post a message here at the forum, and we will all enter and repeatedly crash him until he is crying and begging for forgiveness.

glad i have a g25 crank ffb up to full in profiler and lfs lets see him get away without broken bones.

Quote from flymike91 :

Not to speak ill of the dead, but the woman probably should have asked for help from the police, who would have definitely helped her if I know the police in CA.

ROFL, she had a restraining order... And with cops helping... yeah right. They can't do anything until after the fact... "if he comes back, call us"... I can almost visualize this:
"9-1-1. please state your emergency"
"yes. My Ex boyfriend - he's trying to get in my house - he's BANG!"
"Hello?"

I live in a F-cked up area... Some Cops can be OK, but most ain't much better than the idiots. NEVER trust one.

I was just thinking that if the government collapsed and there was anarchy in the streets and we were being invaded by croatia (hey who knows )I would be really glad that I still had my guns.

Quote from flymike91 :

I was just thinking that if the government collapsed and there was anarchy in the streets and we were being invaded by croatia (hey who knows )I would be really glad that I still had my guns.

Wrong thread:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=778895

Take it to an extreme, lets say you was getting sexually assaulted by an HIV rape gang, you get a chance to break free and take it but unfortunately your grabbed. Your out numbered, your in fear of either an instant or a slow death, would you be prepared to kill?

Personally I know I would be. And the thing about that is how do you know what crime your going to be a victim of until it's too late to take action?

Therefore whilst in the process of being the victim of a crime I deem any and all responses reasonable, even if I kill the perpetrator of a crime in the process.

I have no issues with this.

This is the essence of the traditional, USA theory of government (explained in our Declaration of Independence). A person has a Right, and therefore a Just Power, to defend himself (herself) against being violated (that is, to secure his unalienable Rights - the acknowledgement and deference owed to his characteristic nature as an individual being, self-regulated by his own internal systems, and self-directed by his own will), even though violence is otherwise antithetical to a condition of civilization (since all persons have such Rights, and civilization is an association of such beings/persons).

Because a participant in a civilization, has such a Just Power, thus he can delegate that Just Power to an agent, to act for him, to secure his self-defense, and this is the (only) source of a government's Just Power to behave violently (enforcing compliance with its will). Government has ethically legitimate Power, only because, and only to the extent that, the participants in the civilization have such ethically legitimate Power, themselves, and employ government as their agent to manifest it. For government to exercise violent power, for any other cause, is directly opposed to its natural purpose, which is to enable the persistence of a condition of civilization, by acting as a common agency of self-defense.

@David33: Translated - Your a country can only go to war with the support of its people?

Well that didnt happen...

in an odd twist of events, in Portugal it is illegal to NOT stop the criminal.

You CAN (and get) arrested for "denying help".

Quote from Luke.S :

if anyone broke into my house. Could i shoot them?

If your firearm is licenced (or doesn't need a licence e.g. an air rifle) and it an be construed as "reasonable force", yes. You can also use any weapon you find to hand that's legal. I.E. a cricket bat.

Quote from flymike91 :

sorry for the double post but it sounds like criminals have more rights than civilians. Is it legal to carry a firearm in finland?

I don't think it is in Finland (I think their laws are slightly less restrictive than the UK's), but I'll explain the UK situation.

Carrying a fire arm is illegal in the UK. Possesion of a firearm is not a "yes", or a "no". It's a "no but".

You can get either a "shotgun certificate" or a "firearm certificate", I won't go in to the legal definition of a shotgun.

To get a firearm certificate, you must ask the police for one. In order for them to give you one, the police must be convinced that you have a good reason for one, and that they can be trusted to have it without being a threat to public safety or the peace. Basically, if you need one you can get one. There are also requirements about safe storage and similar. Anyone who has been given a prison sentence of three years or more cannot get a firearms licence.

Shotgun licences are similar, but less restrictive as the legal definition of a shotgun restricts how much ammo you can have on you.

These regulations were tightened up after Dunblane, like a Virgina Tech but in the middle of nowhere in Scotland and at a primary school (and on a smaller scale).

source : wikipedia

Also, the UK police do not normally carry firearms, although each force has it's own armed response (I.E. SWAT in US terminology) team. Even Devon and Cornwall :P

EDIT : Apology for posting this a bit late, but I'll keep it in because someone might (but probably won't) find it interesting.

Quote from Becky Rose :

@David33: Translated - Your a country can only go to war with the support of its people?

Well that didnt happen...

Well, I do agree that one can infer, from what I described, that the government's ethically legitimate authority to wage war, derives from the Rights of citizens (generically, here - meaning, participants in the civilization) to conduct their self-defense (which actually is more specific than the way that you described it).

Anyway, with specific regard to the warfare being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq (I'm assuming that this is what you mean), Congress (as our Constitutional system's representation of "the support of the people") did, in fact, authorize these actions.

So I see a difference between the UK and the US; if in the US a cop saw a man start shooting up a diner, he could go in and kill the perpetrator. In the UK, he would have to call a SWAT team and sit tight. There are too many situations like that that happen everyday for a US cop not have a gun at all times.

Quote from flymike91 :

In the UK, he would have to call a SWAT team and sit tight. There are too many situations like that that happen everyday for a US cop not have a gun at all times.

It might sound rediculous but there is very little gun crime in the UK, although i've personally been shot at 3 times (though 1 ocassion really was quite daft) it does seem that i'm a rare case and thats possibly lifestyle related, most people here have no concept of gun crime what-so-ever at all.

Knife crime is very common though, I got a lovely scar to proove it too.

Texas (where I was born) recently passed a law allowing a person to shoot an intruder if the intruder is commiting a crime on the person's property. An example would be a burglar while looting someones home. An immediate threat of life is not required to allow for a justified shooting.

Regarding the Texas law, there should be a case now regarding a old man that called 911 about a burglary in a neighbor's house, got tired of waiting, went over to the neighbor's house with a shotgun, and shot the two burglars.

In most of the gulf coast states of the USA, the police or national guard and store owners (if they are in their stores) have the right to shoot looters during or after a disaster (typically hurricanes).

I live in California now, and back in the 1960's and earlier, it was legal to carry a loaded weapon as long as it was holstered. The law was changed when a group of Black Panthers "observed" the police during arrests or interrogations of people in their streets armed to the teeth with holstered pistols and shotguns, and ammunition belts. The final straw was when they entered the state congressional building when armed like this.

Still many states, mostly rural ones allow people to carry holstered weaspons. The loaded shotgun hanging on the rear window of a pickup truck in Texas is still legal.

Quote from duke_toaster :

I don't think it is in Finland (I think their laws are slightly less restrictive than the UK's), but I'll explain the UK situation.

it is legal in finland as long as you dont have bullets in the gun's clip or the clip isnt in the gun, the gun is in holster/box/whatever you use to carry it, you have licence for the gun. so, it is legal when others cant see that you have gun and get scared or call to cops, you arent able to shoot it fastly(You have to reload it, take it from holster etc...). That is what i know about it. i dont recomment to walk in street with a gun, you just get in big problems with it if you you shoot it. just take a bottle of pepper spray or something if you are scared of some people

You know, I've posted before about Texas having the "castle Law".
Even though I'm strongly in favor of these laws, there are pros and cons to it. Unfortunately, this is one of the cons:
http://www.chron.com/disp/stor ... metropolitan/5732684.html

And when you read this story, ask yourself questions, like why was the guy sleeping in a shed if he lived in the trailer? What was up with that?

Quote from JeffR :

Texas (where I was born) recently passed a law allowing a person to shoot an intruder if the intruder is commiting a crime on the person's property. An example would be a burglar while looting someones home. An immediate threat of life is not required to allow for a justified shooting.

Regarding the Texas law, there should be a case now regarding a old man that called 911 about a burglary in a neighbor's house, got tired of waiting, went over to the neighbor's house with a shotgun, and shot the two burglars.


I live in California now, and back in the 1960's and earlier, it was legal to carry a loaded weapon as long as it was holstered. The law was changed when a group of Black Panthers "observed" the police during arrests or interrogations of people in their streets armed to the teeth with holstered pistols and shotguns, and ammunition belts. The final straw was when they entered the state congressional building when armed like this.

Still many states, mostly rural ones allow people to carry holstered weaspons. The loaded shotgun hanging on the rear window of a pickup truck in Texas is still legal.

Sorry for the double post... missed this


"Regarding the Texas law, there should be a case now regarding a old man that called 911 about a burglary in a neighbor's house, got tired of waiting, went over to the neighbor's house with a shotgun, and shot the two burglars."

This one's getting swept under the rug. All the factors surrounding this particular case - and the overwhelming public support of this guy. Joe Horn was the shooter. LOL they have bumper stickers wanting this guy for president. and the burglars were two career criminals.

Even though these guys were from Columbia - illegally, "Activist" Quannell X and the New Black Panthers Got involved and went into the subdivision to protest this guy not getting charged with murder, and all these bikers showed up and lined the street he was on and revved up their bikes every time that moron tried to yell whatever nonsense through his megaphone. I wish I was there... I would a loved to shot off a fire cracker to see what would happen:tempted: