First of all, i want to appologyze in front of IGTC organizers and drivers.

c4Racing's performance was poor, we didn't have time at all to practice and went racing with 0% of practice. We should've skip the race, we didn't and i respect the discsision the administrators did.

Also sorry in front of racers who's race was interrupted cause of me.

I think its pretty appauling that I was given a DT for trying to clear up a very poor admin command under caution while the dozens of people reversing onto the track in the middle of traffic go unpunished. That rule definatley needs to be enforced a lot harder for next race.

Quote from srdsprinter :

On lap 179 (leaders lap), the leader bumped the 02 off the track going into turn 1. The 02 was gaining rapidly on the 14th place car, and the 19 had over a lap advantage on the field.

It's understood it was a simple mistake, not malicious, but please do take care to leave room, especially when the lapped car is completely yielding the position.

-------------------------------


Thanks to all for racing,
|||Stu
S3Racing

After the race i did say sry for it i didnt expect him to get on my left side while i was braking early.

Again sry for it.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Agree here, the severity of the pentalty could have been increased about 10 fold, and still been too little.

Fortunately for you guys though, the incident did not in fact cost you the race.

------------------------
Cars weaving and speeding through the first SC period did in fact cost team #30 the race, as they got the shaft end of the stick when a wreck occured.

Driving like idiots under caution is plaguing this series, if you can't drive in proximity to others without crashing, get the hell off the track.

Well, in fact the incident was the beginning of the end as staying at the end of the grid has many more troubles than 6th place. A lot of bad driving to avoid and if you are lucky, you live. I wasn't lucky as I hit a kind of roadblock of cars (together with some crazy lag) resulting in my car rolling 2 times upside down and landing with totaled suspension. That was it...Blue flags for the rest of the race etc..

Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is that after watching the replay of the incident involving #30 under SC period, guess who started the problem. Same car that sent me out of the race before it had started... #16 car commits very dangerous driving, and the admins/marshals should be aware of this. That's what I had to say. I hope for a better and safer race next round.

Take care

Quote from Scott_Michaels :

I think its pretty appauling that I was given a DT for trying to clear up a very poor admin command under caution while the dozens of people reversing onto the track in the middle of traffic go unpunished. That rule definatley needs to be enforced a lot harder for next race.

The chat DT was unfortunate. We could have been clearer about "the leader," but ultimately decided that this didn't outweigh the fact that teams are responsible for knowing who the leader is, since they have three or more avenues for finding out (though your uncertainty is understandable as one, the tracker, was inaccurate at that time).

As for drivers reversing into traffic... we enforce the rules on every incident we catch. If we don't catch them, we rely on teams to file protests. There was an incredible amount of action going on out there.

I think that people were way too careless going through the first chicane. There were tires all over the place. All of my teammates got hit by tires causing them to spin, while I recieved a collapsed suspension for hitting one, causing me to lose a podium position Seriously, people just ploughed through them on a consistent basis.

Quote from niall09 :

I think that people were way too careless going through the first chicane. There were tires all over the place. All of my teammates got hit by tires causing them to spin, while I recieved a collapsed suspension for hitting one, causing me to lose a podium position Seriously, people just ploughed through them on a consistent basis.

Yes, we had exactly the same problem Hit a tyre in the middle of the track and ruined a damper, losing us a lot of time in the pits

Can't belive you guys are bitching about these things God help you all if you would have drove the #32 car!

Well I think some people can bitch, if it lost them alot of places

All in all though, it was a fun race and a special thanks to the admins and racers!

Yeah, was realy a problem those "moving" tyres in 1st chicane, but i think we all have that same problem, not just 2 or 3 teams
We have to many problems during the race, some off them because off some insane drivers, but thats race insues, for exemple in 1st chicane, some driver get out off track and when he tryed to came in again, he simply dont care whit others, the result was a very damaged suspension and a pit stop.
A big thx to all racers for the fun race and administrators for the great work along those 4 intense hours

Quote from Bessa74 :

Yeah, was realy a problem those "moving" tyres in 1st chicane, but i think we all have that same problem, not just 2 or 3 teams
We have to many problems during the race, some off them because off some insane drivers, but thats race insues, for exemple in 1st chicane, some driver get out off track and when he tryed to came in again, he simply dont care whit others, the result was a very damaged suspension and a pit stop.
A big thx to all racers for the fun race and administrators for the great work along those 4 intense hours

Really you ought to file a report about that. Wrecklessly endangering others is stupid, and that behaivor needs to be rooted out of the IGTC.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Really you ought to file a report about that. Wrecklessly endangering others is stupid, and that behaivor needs to be rooted out of the IGTC.

That team was one of the two teams who were parked during the race.

The team's future in the series is very much in doubt.

Keep an ear out for announcements regarding this over the next week.

Intense race. Slightly confusing for us due too two disconnects and the tracker problems. I wasn't really sure what was going on position wise.
I just decided to overtake whoever i could if i was clearly faster and try and let anyone through who caught me.
I hope i didn't interfere with anyone's race. Sincere apologies if i did.

Qual was very poor. I'm just not a good qualifier for some reason. I don't get nervous, i was feeling calm, but i just can find the extra 0.5+ second i know i have.

The first 10 mins was a disaster. I made up a couple of positions at the start , only to have to slam on the brakes for someone who got it all wrong in front of me. That cost me about 7 positions. Then not long after i got hit by the SR car knocking me off the track loosing me a few more positions. Then my computer had a huge stuttery moment for several seconds. fps dropped to 1 and i just drove into the barriers, wrecking my suspension and losing more positions :P

Managed to fight my way up from P 20 something up to 7th. The first SC period was perfectly timed for us and we got in , changed driver and got out without loosing any positions.
Bean0 unfortunately discoed within 5-10 mins of his stint, he decided to rejoin but discoed again I jumped back in to complete that hour then Reintjan stepped in at the last minute to do a stint(thanks mate, good job!) before leaving me the final stint when i really found some pace.

The tire bumping at the chicane was ridiculous. 4 times I hit loose tires, 1 time was almost a race ender.

Over all it was a fun if frustrating experience. Not having a lot of luck so far this season, but i for one am enjoying it a lot still

Thanks again to the Admins for a job well done.

Quote from rcpilot :

Think I'm happy about losing 7/8 minutes due to lapped traffic bumping me off the road and they get a stop & go? Relative slap on the wrist. But, rules are rules. Hell, they even finished in front of us and essentially robbed of us a hard fought podium, just grinds salt into the wound.

First of all I´m very sorry about what happened to car #30. That´s so sad.
Getting wrecked under a SC. Race over. For cases like this one, I´d like to see the admins adding a rule that they at all times can overrule an existing rules.
After a lot of preparation no team deserves to see its race finished like #30. I really feel with #30 here and even it´s so difficult to react fast for the admins I hope that incidents like yesterday will result in a rejoin. I´m sure the reality people are not font of this idea but it´s my personal oppinion.

All in all, races become better and better and are on a high standart - credit to the admins of the IGTC.

Team CORE:
I really admire your fight yesterday recovering from a almost last position to a 4th at the end.
I´m very sorry about this racing incident and admit I didn´t even know who you was in this situation. I saw a car go wide at the "off brigde turn" and expected it to back off because of the speed difference between you and me and your beeing off the racing line.
Unfortunately, this didn´t happen and we made contact with major consequenses for your team.
Still, having watched the replay I do not think this was all alone my fault and I don´t see this incident as a re-passing of a lapped car but overtaking a car which went wide in a turn.
We got a SG for this what I judge a racing incident and actually performed 2 SG´s as my teammate never had received a SG before and didn´t know that he had to wait for 10 secs. in his pitbox.

But of course I´m not proud of this situation now and hope you understand my thinking a little.

I´ve been thinking about what if all the teams had their teamnames and number on their numberplates. It def. would it make easier to identify a car if you usually race without names on top of the cars.

Once more:I´m sorry about the outcome and I´m impressed by your recovering from a 9 mins. lap and still finish in the tops. Respect.

Quote from R.Kolz :

Team CORE:
I really admire your fight yesterday recovering from a almost last position to a 4th at the end.
I´m very sorry about this racing incident and admit I didn´t even know who you was in this situation. I saw a car go wide at the "off brigde turn" and expected it to back off because of the speed difference between you and me and your beeing off the racing line.
Unfortunately, this didn´t happen and we made contact with major consequenses for your team.
Still, having watched the replay I do not think this was all alone my fault and I don´t see this incident as a re-passing of a lapped car but overtaking a car which went wide in a turn.
We got a SG for this what I judge a racing incident and actually performed 2 SG´s as my teammate never had received a SG before and didn´t know that he had to wait for 10 secs. in his pitbox.

But of course I´m not proud of this situation now and hope you understand my thinking a little.

I´ve been thinking about what if all the teams had their teamnames and number on their numberplates. It def. would it make easier to identify a car if you usually race without names on top of the cars.

Once more:I´m sorry about the outcome and I´m impressed by your recovering from a 9 mins. lap and still finish in the tops. Respect.

While I understand the situation you were in, I would've never missed that braking point had you not come jaunting out on the road in front of me and then swerved in front of me. Really distracted me along with accidentally then clipping the inside of the corner finding my way through the situation. Plus:

4.1) The “racing surface” is defined as all areas that are asphalt, concrete (including green sections), or curbing. Raised, perpendicular “speed bump” curbing is not included.

I understood I was still on the racing surface and I thought there was no way that the person who had almost taken me out earlier illegally regaining the track was going to come through the corner full bore with no respect to me. Plus your immediate response was that you couldn't see me which is just plain untrue, you had sight lines on me right up to the point of contact.

If you want to blame closing speeds can I just start bumping lapped traffic out of the way now? They're usually pretty slow. :-' I usually have to jump off the course to dodge an incident that would've been all my fault with lapped traffic a couple times a race, it sucks but you deal with it. All in all, what's done is done and I just want to move on. But, I see no blame on myself here.

Quote from R.Kolz :

I´ve been thinking about what if all the teams had their teamnames and number on their numberplates. It def. would it make easier to identify a car if you usually race without names on top of the cars.

Typically once I catch my first lapped car, or get caught by one, I turn on "names over cars" in LFS. I personally wouldn't mind having the numbers on the plates but I would rather it be blank or say CoRe on it.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

The chat DT was unfortunate. We could have been clearer about "the leader," but ultimately decided that this didn't outweigh the fact that teams are responsible for knowing who the leader is, since they have three or more avenues for finding out (though your uncertainty is understandable as one, the tracker, was inaccurate at that time).

As for drivers reversing into traffic... we enforce the rules on every incident we catch. If we don't catch them, we rely on teams to file protests. There was an incredible amount of action going on out there.

I had absolutley no avenue to find that out (my team mate wasn't available at the time), and there wasn't anything I could do about it anyway because none of the cars infront knew what was going on either. I think it was a poor decision but its your choice so I took the drive through.
I don't see a single penalty for cars dangerously re-entering (during the race), which means that almost all the time you will miss it, and therefore people are more likely to take advantage of that, which is clearly what's happening now. When you've got people reversing onto the track into traffic and reversing down the track on the racing line after a spin, clearly they aren't taking the rule seriously.
As for the tyre stacks, I had a big accident with them when the car infront cut the chicane and I flipped about 6 times after hitting one of the tyre stacks they pulled onto the track, lost me probably 2 laps. Unfortunatley this is a product of the LFS designers insisting on putting those irritating chicanes everywhere, and there isn't much the admins themselves can do about it without getting really harsh with cutting penalties, so I guess thats just one of those things. Although if a car repeatedly runs straight through tyre stacks they should probably be penalised.

Quote from rcpilot :

While I understand the situation you were in, I would've never missed that braking point had you not come jaunting out on the road in front of me and then swerved in front of me. Really distracted me along with accidentally then clipping the inside of the corner finding my way through the situation.... (clip)
...I understood I was still on the racing surface and I thought there was no way that the person who had almost taken me out earlier illegally regaining the track was going to come through the corner full bore with no respect to me. Plus your immediate response was that you couldn't see me which is just plain untrue, you had sight lines on me right up to the point of contact...( clip )

I really understand your frustration but after your statements I need to straighten something out here:
1.Nobody " illegally regained the race track".
See see movie for the first time. I´s in deep trouble, true, but got back on the track with nobody at all behind me. The blue flag I get after I for about 5 seconds had been on track again.
2.That you miss your braking point after the bridge with me far behind has absolutely nothing to do with me.
3. Nobody swerved in front of you at no time. I actually gave you the ideal inner line and eased the throttle the turn before the bridge.Check it on the movie.
4. You claim I had sight lines up to the point of contact. Not true. See the movie from my view.

This was IMO a racing accident and we even served a penalty for it. That this accident had such a huge impact on your team yesterday - once more: I´m very sorry about it !!!

Here´s your situation.

Youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kSonAytEK0k

Rudy, the jump-cut in that video makes it kind of worthless as a tool in judging the situation. You're clearly on the grass and getting sideways as you make the turn onto the bridge, then it jumps to halfway down the bridge straight.

The look-to-apex function you're using does explain how you wouldn't have seen him there. On the other hand, I wouldn't have charged in there at full speed assuming he wouldn't be there.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Rudy, the jump-cut in that video makes it kind of worthless as a tool in judging the situation. You're clearly on the grass and getting sideways as you make the turn onto the bridge, then it jumps to halfway down the bridge straight.

The look-to-apex function you're using does explain how you wouldn't have seen him there. On the other hand, I wouldn't have charged in there at full speed assuming he wouldn't be there.

Thanks for your comment.

No, even I just told you in a PM, I´m not going to do a new fraps movie. I´m poor at it as you can see. If people care they can watch the replay. I can assure you that nothing happend in this cut scene just your teammate getting away from me. If I touched the grass there.. well, just see how much room I gave him..
I didn´t spin there or anything else happened.

I hate it to tell my tricks here but actually that´s exactely how I race. I use a lot of the look-to-apex function. I didn´t charge in there full speed and could just turn it arround: He could have waited until me on the racing line would have passed this turn.

I´m not saying I´m free of any guilt here and both miscalculated eachother in this very situation.

Quote from R.Kolz :

3. Nobody swerved in front of you at no time. I actually gave you the ideal inner line and eased the throttle the turn before the bridge.Check it on the movie.
4. You claim I had sight lines up to the point of contact. Not true. See the movie from my view.

Here´s your situation.

Youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kSonAytEK0k

Your movie shows the that you easily saw our car... Just because you have look-to-apex turned on doesn't mean you should forget or ignore what you saw right in front of you... You didn't lift when you saw us on the right hand side of the track and nor should you be using that much look-to-apex.

Quote from BigTime :

Your movie shows the that you easily saw our car... Just because you have look-to-apex turned on doesn't mean you should forget or ignore what you saw right in front of you... You didn't lift when you saw us on the right hand side of the track and nor should you be using that much look-to-apex.

I´m very sorry about it and prob. not free of any guilt here still -BOTH miscalculated eachother in this very situation because he´s the one clearly off the racing line - not me. I have tried to explain it as good as I could in my previous three posts and that´s all I can do now. EOD.
Please accept my apology.

I'd appreciate it if we could put this issue to rest now. I think both sides have had their say.

Ahh, I'm just a little frustrated I guess. I can see that we both played a part in the incident... Thank you for the apology.

Quote from R.Kolz :

I really understand your frustration but after your statements I need to straighten something out here:
1.Nobody " illegally regained the race track".
See see movie for the first time. I´s in deep trouble, true, but got back on the track with nobody at all behind me. The blue flag I get after I for about 5 seconds had been on track again.
2.That you miss your braking point after the bridge with me far behind has absolutely nothing to do with me.
3. Nobody swerved in front of you at no time. I actually gave you the ideal inner line and eased the throttle the turn before the bridge.Check it on the movie.
4. You claim I had sight lines up to the point of contact. Not true. See the movie from my view.

This was IMO a racing accident and we even served a penalty for it. That this accident had such a huge impact on your team yesterday - once more: I´m very sorry about it !!!

Here´s your situation.

Youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kSonAytEK0k

I'm sorry BigTime/DWB, but you weren't involved in the incident and I can't let these almost libelous statements stand.

Let me straighten some things out:

1. You were going 80-90 mph in a 125 mph corner, all I really need to say about that.

2. No, it didn't cause it, but I'm not normally flustered and pissed off when I get to that spot.

3. You were solidly on the inner line, I went for the outer line. You then proceeded to jump to the outer line. You changed lines with a potential closing speed of 40 mph, which is just daft. Besides, the outer line was optimal for the faster moving car.

4. So you run a setting that doesn't allow you to see someone when they're still well ahead of you but off to one side? Not my problem you didn't look but that already sounds rather dangerous.

I state again:

4.1) The “racing surface” is defined as all areas that are asphalt, concrete (including green sections), or curbing. Raised, perpendicular “speed bump” curbing is not included.

I had every right to my bit of track, yet you still hit me. What your conclusions come down to if this is a racing incident are, 'I can hit someone as long as they miss their apex, are a little off the pace, and I lose track of them knowing they could be trouble mid-corner and don't bother to look.' Huh? I could literally smack about half of the lapped traffic I come by off the road under that reasoning.

Cut up replay attached below. Viewing the youtube file at a choppy half speed without seeing it at normal speed first gives you 0 feel for the timing and speed of the incident.