Why do ppl get points for driving alone on a CTRA server or on a fastest car class on multi class servers?
Shouldn't there be at least 2 drivers in a car class to get points?

Some people use this to advance in their licence without being able to race and this is really annoying if your races are ruined by someone in a faster car who cant handle it ...

This has happend alot on Race 3 as I was racing there some weeks ago. Almost all ppl were racing on GT2 class, but one driver had to chose GTR. This wouldn't be a problem if he could handle it - but in most turns he was just an obstacle for fast GT2 drivers. The same happens now on SS3: One slow guy in bf1 - all others on fo8.
And I'm sure, if he wouldn't get points for driving bf1 alone this would not happen. (He wouldn't be able to drive bf1 at all ...)

I really don't care for the points I get on CTRA - I drive there because of the good races - so I would allways chose a car class the mayority on that server is driving. I also join race 1, where I get no points at all - but instead I get some good races.

I get 5 points when I drive alone in BnJ-server. That would mean really easy and fast way to upgrade my license. I'll only have to finish 444,8 solo-races to go to red roof -class. </sarcasm>

Maybe this is because then someone is driving and that might lure other racers to the server (Because it is not empty). What comes to "faster car gets more points", I do not have experience.

Works the other way around too.

Be the lone TBO in a server populated by LRF drivers.

Before I got Platinum I got 40 points per race for driving alone around the track. BUT you have to keep the car under control and drive fast... ish to get the points. One spin and you drop down 10 points.

Unfortunately now that I have Platinum I don't get many points. Now I really have to start fighting to get any. Just like in the old times on Race 1.

Quote from March Hare :

Unfortunately now that I have Platinum I don't get many points. Now I really have to start fighting to get any. Just like in the old times on Race 1.

So your saying that you'd rather walk away with 1st place and not have to fight for it?

Quote from March Hare :

Before I got Platinum I got 40 points per race for driving alone around the track. BUT you have to keep the car under control and drive fast... ish to get the points. One spin and you drop down 10 points.

the problem is: if there is no proper track record setted on the server you don't need to be fast when driving alone, that's the situation on SS3 atm, i think.

@willi: one solution could be, that we have to set some records, so that gaining points is not so easy, but you know that we are not the fastest at all, so perhaps the goal gets missed but i will tell filo and we will take a look

Best solution would be separate servers for fo8 and bf1, then I wouldn't care if someone drives all day alone with bf1 and gets his points.
I think these cars are way to fast to have them on one server - its hard enough to avoid crashes in T1 with a field of fo8 - but with a bf1 between them its almost impossible because there is no way to react at speeds of >200 kmh if someone in a bf1 is braking 50m earlier then a fo8 would brake.

yeah, willi you are totally right, can be frustrating for you fast FO8-guys, but the intention of SS3 was to pack that 2 classes together to get nearly full grids. if everybody can nearly handle the BF1, i think there should be no problem

Yep! If you can't handle multi-class racing at that level, then there is a problem with the licencing system and we will have to reassess the licencing structure. This server is for the best drivers.. if people can't meet that standard, we will have to make changes.

At one time, we had to downgrade a whole bunch of Silver licenced racers because they had achieved the licence without meeting the required standard. It will be a nuisance to do the same again with SS, but we will do it if necessary.

I hope you aren't downgrading people with rather high yellow flag ratios (only 28% till silver :woohoo: )

Quote from JO53PHS :

I hope you aren't downgrading people with rather high yellow flag ratios (only 28% till silver)

Just on this point (hijack). I'm a mid to back field racer on Race1 and many of my yellows are not my fault. If you crash at T1 due to a pile up in front of you, get rear ended at the end of a straight and so on, you get a yellow flag.

This pushes up my yellow flag ratio when I'm not at fault. Just something to note.

Quote from SamH :

Yep! If you can't handle multi-class racing at that level, then there is a problem with the licencing system and we will have to reassess the licencing structure.

Whilst i generally agree with you Sam, multiclass racing has absolutely no place on a BF1 server.

The BF1 really is in a class of its own. When there are more people licensed to race it i can see some good racing taking place. Top driver fighting each other in that car need to concentrate on what they are doing without the distraction of FO8's.

The current situation is just dangerous, as Willi pointed out you have a slow guy driving round just for the points in a BF1 that is interfering with the FO8 racers.
The speed difference is so great that a BF1 can be on you before you realise it in an FO8. I dont care how good the drivers are, the situation is dangerous.


I'm really looking forward to getting my International 'A' license to race the BF1, but i sure as hell ain't going to drive it when there's FO8's on the grid as well.

Is there genuinely that much of a gap between the FO8 and the BF1? You have to remember that these servers were devised on-spec. I don't think we tested up as far as FO8/BF1 in the beta testing phase. We spent most of the time getting the FJR class working well.

[edit] is it not that you have an irresponsible BF1 driver who isn't driving according to the conditions on the track, though?

Quote from SamH :

Yep! If you can't handle multi-class racing at that level, then there is a problem with the licencing system and we will have to reassess the licencing structure. This server is for the best drivers.. if people can't meet that standard, we will have to make changes.

At one time, we had to downgrade a whole bunch of Silver licenced racers because they had achieved the licence without meeting the required standard. It will be a nuisance to do the same again with SS, but we will do it if necessary.

The problem is: not we are who cannot handle multi-class racing, the guy (all of us knows who he is) with the higher license cant. He has got the license to drive the BF1, but he cant control it. He reached the super license because he was driving all alone on the servers.

Yesterday we (almost) had some good races on ss3, but that guy was not able to get off the start(!) as fast as we did in the FO8. Than we crased into him, because the BF1 hs a faster acceleration, and we were not able to get out of his way. + when we asked him to drive FO8, he said he has fun with the F1 car.

It's clear, if somebody reached an International (even B) license, he/she can hanlde single seater racecars. We have hughe respect to the others who race on SS3, but this guy. We are always trying to be very tolerant, because we know each other pretty much. We were not yelling to the guy, we were not even asked him to leave, but this is pretty unfair for us, i think.

okay, I'm going to have to spend some time spectating on SS3. I appreciate that you don't wanna rat out a friend, but I don't have such compunctions.. if someone, even my bestest lifelong friend in all the world, isn't meeting the standard, they'll finish up losing their licence. The integrity of the CTRA transcends all friendships and loyalties. I won't apologize for that.

i think in normal conditions there should be no problem with the multi-class. if the BF1-drivers do no mistakes, they normally are much faster and interferring with others is only the case while overlapping and that is good to handle

Quote from haelje :

i think in normal conditions there should be no problem with the multi-class. if the BF1-drivers do no mistakes, they normally are much faster and interferring with others is only the case while overlapping and that is good to handle

This is what was confusing me. Half my LFS career I spent driving around with complete numpties (UKCT team members!!! ) while they're pootling around in FO8s and FOXs (because they're easier to handle) and I've screamed past them in a BF1. I seriously never had a problem negotiating a slower field. It's up to the person overtaking to do it cleanly.. and if they can't, WTF are they doing in that car?

Quote from SamH :

This is what was confusing me. Half my LFS career I spent driving around with complete numpties (UKCT team members!!! ) while they're pootling around in FO8s and FOXs (because they're easier to handle) and I've screamed past them in a BF1. I seriously never had a problem negotiating a slower field. It's up to the person overtaking to do it cleanly.. and if they can't, WTF are they doing in that car?

totally agree to that

Well i see you ain't going to change it then.

Balls to driving BF1's in a field of FO8's though, that's simply a load of bol****s.

The speed difference is huge. On endurance days you are going to end up lapping FO8's .

It's one thing lapping a slower BF1, but it's going to be a right pita coming up on battling FO8's. Potential great BF1 battles will be ruined, that's a fact.

There's no way the ultimate race cars should be sharing a track with any other cars. I don't care how good the drivers are.

Ohh well, sod the SS cars, it's back to GT's for me.

I've not said that yet.. I need to find out what the current situation is. I wasn't aware there was a problem until now. Next I have to find out if it really is the difference in speeds between the two cars, or the people who are failing to handle the faster car properly.

GTR and GT2 have co-existed exceptionally well on the Race3 server for months, though in the middle we had some problems where (again) the faster cars were NOT being driven to standard. That was fixed, and peace restored. I need to identify the problem properly, present it to the CTRA guys and justify a new, higher server if it is indeed needed.

Quote from SamH :

This is what was confusing me. Half my LFS career I spent driving around with complete numpties (UKCT team members!!! ) while they're pootling around in FO8s and FOXs (because they're easier to handle) and I've screamed past them in a BF1. I seriously never had a problem negotiating a slower field. It's up to the person overtaking to do it cleanly.. and if they can't, WTF are they doing in that car?

This is only true for slow car classes - there is room and time to react to slower drivers to overtake them. But with increasing speed its getting harder to react in time.
Fast BF1 racing takes me alot concentration, especially if I'm racing close to another BF1. If I imagine that there will also be some FO8 fighting for places ...
Sure - it would be possible to overtake them clean, but alot races will be hampered by that. And as I take a look at WR times - on most tracks some FO8 will be lapped by BF1.

Edit: I'm to slow - took me almost 20 minutes to post this ... 2 posts in between

On Race 3 lapping is common, especially on Endurance Day. Lapping cars, or even overtaking mid-race joiners, is not supposed to be challenging to a driver in SS3. It's something most people learn in SS1. I'm very concerned now that the bar that we've set for getting into a BF1 is simply not high enough.

Hmm, just having re-read my post i really don't approve of the tone. it was verging on the point of throwing a tantrum

Feel free to give me a grumpy old man warning Apologies for that Sam.

I'm just trying to point out, like Willi has above, that racing the BF1's is completely different to any other car in the game.

I think we could both be seen as pretty good drivers, we have decent skills and reactions and can both handle the BF1, but it really does take all your concentration to race the thing at full whack, lap after lap. The FO8's are as good as standing still in places in comparison.

Races will be ruined, of that i have no doubt whatsoever.

Obviously I'm not a fan of multiclass racing at the best of times, though it can work satisfactorily. The GT server seems to work well, The TBO/LX6/RAC not so well so i don't race there anymore.

Until there are some more people licensed to drive (and actually capable of driving) the BF1 this isn't really a problem. Everyone generally races the FO8. But as we get more people wanting to race BF1 i think a separate server should certainly be considered.

With some of the top drivers we have in CTRA we might at last see some really good BF1 Racing, something I've been looking forward too since buying the sim over a year ago but never found.

EDIT:-

I don't think making people earn even more points to get access to the BF1 is an answer. To bring this right back to the OT, giving points away for driving on your own is where the problem lies. You just don't have to 'earn' your license that way. It's giving it away for no other effort than plenty of hotlapping (imho)

Quote from SamH :

okay, I'm going to have to spend some time spectating on SS3. I appreciate that you don't wanna rat out a friend, but I don't have such compunctions.. if someone, even my bestest lifelong friend in all the world, isn't meeting the standard, they'll finish up losing their licence. The integrity of the CTRA transcends all friendships and loyalties. I won't apologize for that.

Hope your not talking about me Hoppo or you'll be off the Xmas card list oh wait hang on, I'm not international yet (phew)


I think this black and white attitide is the best and only one that can work on a server structure such as CTRA.

If people are not up to standard, then the age old phase of practice,practice,practice INSTANTLY springs to mind - look at what happened in F1 a few years ago with Yamamota - altohugh he was originally given a super-license in truth the F1 cars were totally above him and eventually it got revoked.... harsh, but fair.

Quote from SamH :

On Race 3 lapping is common, especially on Endurance Day. Lapping cars, or even overtaking mid-race joiners, is not supposed to be challenging to a driver in SS3. It's something most people learn in SS1. I'm very concerned now that the bar that we've set for getting into a BF1 is simply not high enough.

Isn;t the problem you mention instantly dismissed by your own arguement thou Sam?

You say that SS3 drivers learn overtaking in SS1 - well, they do, but remember passing cars of the same class which accelerate/brake and have cornering charateristics which are identical is COMPLETLY differnet to the type of overtaking/lapping that will occur on the SS3 server

am I right?

therefore the BF1 drivers have to learn it all over again, and without being silly in the BF1 there is no reaction time, also don't forget that the SS3 server is also a place for NEW FO8 drivers therefore the overtakers may be new at overtaking the new FO8 drivers who will be erratic in their own car as well - can make for an interesting combination methinks.

Well.. no.. What I mean is that overtaking and passing other cars is not a new thing in SS3.. and passing cars that are erratic in their behaviour is most especially something you get your teeth dug into on Race1. While the cars are slower, the steering inputs and general handling are more bathtub in Race1 than a SS3. There are a few SS drivers that haven't done the Race1 thing much, but not many.

I haven't had a chance to sort out anything for SS3 yet. I've been 40% successful at having a day off but I don't think it's uber crushing right now. I do need to download some replays from the CTRA replay store, and look at what's been happening. Once I've done that, I'll have a better grasp on the concerns and the reasons behind them