Quote from Jakg :

[ snip ]

+1 with no option to disable. I'm guessing all of you in this thread have used the CTRA servers, and used servers on the UKCT box at some point

Nope. Never will either

Quote :

- we provide these services free (even though the server itself isn't fee - "we" pay around £100 a month iirc, a cost paid soley by UKCT, mainly by people like Sam). Why is it so evil that UKCT want to fund our servers (when I say fund, I mean get no where near enough money to recoup the cost of the server) with ads? You already have them in LFS to start off with ffs.

EDIT - Really should pay some time :X

Cool! I'll start charging per-download from my various sites hosted on my own equipment (yup, server is bought, not rented).

I _never_ charge for my stuff, I'm far from being rich, and have never and will never place advertising on any of my sites.

e-mail is not a marketing medium, neither are game servers!

Again I state, people wanting this who run servers and see it as some kind of way palming half the bill onto users is nothing less than simple greed.



Regards,

Ian

PS: Even if "forced", there will be ways around it.. and if it does become forced, I will spend time to get around it and publicly publish a how-to.. hell, I'll code a proxy if I have to and release it, that much I promise

Quote from Jakg :

"we"

Look, its a simple matter - advertising is a blight on what would otherwise be a very good life. There's no getting around this fact and "we" will hate you for forcing it on "us". We also know that it might be a necessity from your point of view, but since "we" see the world from "our" point of view, we will resist the "no option to disable" thing.

Its just a fact of life (as life currently stands...). Don't expect anyone to love you for it. Because we don't.

Not that I care much, since I've not been online for ages. Just pointing out something obvious.

Quote from nihil :

Look, its a simple matter - advertising is a blight on what would otherwise be a very good life. There's no getting around this fact and "we" will hate you for forcing it on "us". We also know that it might be a necessity from your point of view, but since "we" see the world from "our" point of view, we will resist the "no option to disable" thing.

Its just a fact of life (as life currently stands...). Don't expect anyone to love you for it. Because we don't.

Not that I care much, since I've not been online for ages. Just pointing out something obvious.

I challenge you, imagine any race event, both LFS and Real life, without quality adverts and banners and ads.

Yes a quality control measure would have to be implemented, but think about it, all the cars would be like normal cars, no stickers, just the paint. BORING

Second think of trackside banners, yes there is a possiblity that they could be tacky and tastless, but on the whole the track wouldn't look like a track without banners pasted everywhere.

Take off all the ads you see at a track and remove them, what would it look like? Promotion within LFS is already present, just look at the cars, buildings, and bilboards the only difference now is that they are REAL banners with REAL companies, and they are PAYING for them, no brainer myself, which if anything would increase the quality on quality servers, and vice versa. It will add character to otherwise exactly the same tracks and the server admins personality can be reflected through the use of adverts, which IMO is a good thing.

Sounds like you think advertising makes or breaks visual situations.. news flash.. it doesn't.

Car art can yield high results without company names / logos if the artist has a bit of imagination with a paint brush. Likewise, if armco was just plain armco, what difference does it make? How many racers do you think drive round the track and think 'oh, a Marlboro ad on that 10' piece of armco, I must get me some of them on the way home'.. get real.

If you can't afford to run a server without trying to bludge off of the community to support it, there seems to be one simple answer.............



Regards,

Ian

Lol

Btw, I have to say -1 to this. I have never looked at one add in lfs. Nor have they ever caught my eye. LFS is ment to be about driving, I dont pay attention to whats around me. Therefor I deem this useless.

Quote from Ian.H :

Sounds like you think advertising makes or breaks visual situations.. news flash.. it doesn't.

Car art can yield high results without company names / logos if the artist has a bit of imagination with a paint brush. Likewise, if armco was just plain armco, what difference does it make? How many racers do you think drive round the track and think 'oh, a Marlboro ad on that 10' piece of armco, I must get me some of them on the way home'.. get real.

If you can't afford to run a server without trying to bludge off of the community to support it, there seems to be one simple answer.............



Regards,

Ian

Get out of your little box of thinking for yourself and think of the bigger picture, I am on about spectators and LFS being used in streams and TV deals, a bit different than your local homegrown server, sorry.

Server side ads for the regular server won't mean much, but with servers and events with substancial userbase the numbers could be significant and bring in a potential to increase the service provided on those servers even farther.

CTRA already has one high visibility advert (it currently says CTRA) and they havn't sold it, despite there being a real tangeable value to that advert slot. It appears in the bottom left corner when spectating and on the $results screen where it was implemented from day 1 (and used to say Logitech), and is equal to or greater than any banner advert. Yet the slot remains vacant.

I think ingame banner advertising is a cool concept, but unless someone goes out and sells it then it would just be the doodling ground of cruise servers...

+1 in theory anyway, it would be great if it worked.

-1 to blocking it being meen, it isnt. Sam, you really should be trying to get a job - or getting on the phone and flogging the ad slot you've got - either works.

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

Get out of your little box of thinking for yourself and think of the bigger picture, I am on about spectators and LFS being used in streams and TV deals, a bit different than your local homegrown server, sorry.

Please tell me how having someone pay you to rent a server makes for better TV deals.

Quote :

Server side ads for the regular server won't mean much, but with servers and events with substancial userbase the numbers could be significant and bring in a potential to increase the service provided on those servers even farther.

You seriously need to get your head out of your arse. CTRA servers are "just another group of servers". If you think they're some kind of high n mighty elite version of everyone elses, that's your hangup. Someone else will create such a system if it's in demand, and quite possibly won;'t be trying to scrounge off the community to support it.

Everyone else has managed for years to run their servers without bludging off of the community. People get flamed (and rightly so) for begging for S2 licenses.. to me, this is no better, infact worse as you're trying to eliminate the choice of whether the 3rd party is willing to participate or not.

Go on.. do it, it'll give me a coding challenge to filter your scumware

I think Becky has hit the nail on the head, Sam needs to get a real job instead of playing games for a living.

As for thinking it'd be mean to block ads, that's just pathetically hilarious!



Regards,

Ian

I wonder...

Of all the people thinking this bullsh!t is a pro rather than a con, how many of you use absolutely no filtering for spam in e-mails? Be it your own solution (mailwasher type apps) or server-side (DNSbls / SpamAssassin etc).. or, if not under your control at all, have you contacted your mail host provider to ask them to whitelist _all_ mail to your account?



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

on the whole the track wouldn't look like a track without banners pasted everywhere.

yeah im sure the f1 tracks in the 60s and earlier looked more like barns than tracks

and... no http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20061019.jpg

Quote from Ian.H :

Someone else will create such a system if it's in demand, and quite possibly won;'t be trying to scrounge off the community to support it.

Grrr..I hate it when people read my mind. :shhh:

Quote from Ian.H :

Go on.. do it, it'll give me a coding challenge to filter your scumware

I want that, When its done. I have a crappy PC as it is, Without making it worse...


I dont see the point in these suggestions. They never make it into lfs so why even bother. This is just a little bin, Used purely to section all the crap that the devs dont wanna see.

Movies have product placements as well. I know everyone have watched our favorite movie: Fast And The Furious Tokyo Drift ( )? When Lucas flipped his american muscle, a bottle of tabasco flew right past the screen.

I think that part should have been cencored! I didn't paid the movie so I can watch commercials (Actually, telling the thruth: I didn't paid for it. My friend forced me to watch it)!

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

I challenge you, imagine any race event, both LFS and Real life, without quality adverts and banners and ads.

LOL... You seem to have missed my point: really, just for emphasis, don't expect anyone to love you for inflicting this on them. Do it if you want it enough, but don't seek our approval. It isn't available.

Anyway, its irrelevant that real circuits have adverts, it doesn't change the fact that advertising is a visual and conceptual form of cancer, that no one would, in their right mind, wish on anyone else. I always thought the point of LFS fictional cars etc was that we, the userbase, don't have to accept the idiotic and oppressive constraints of the so-called real world, and we could just concentrate on a quality driving simulation with concomitant quality racing. Am I wrong?

However I accept your challenge: first I could think of but there are loads of other examples...

Quote from nihil :

don't expect anyone to love you for inflicting this on them. Do it if you want it enough, but don't seek our approval. It isn't available.

I think that's quite fair, really If people genuinely object, they will do so by not racing on the servers. Some people would never race on our servers anyway, so I wouldn't really give any credence to their opinions. It would be silly to.

[edit] What will be will be, and there's no point in labouring it here.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Grrr..I hate it when people read my mind. :shhh:

Heh. An open-source version would be sweet! No forced ads, open code and non-elitist development attitudes would pretty much make CTRA servers null&void after a short period I think

Quote :

I want that, When its done. I have a crappy PC as it is, Without making it worse...

I think it'd be one of the more popular tools I'd have coded if it becomes needed. Will be funny to see how quickly the thread gets removed from here when it gets announced, and by who

Quote :

I dont see the point in these suggestions. They never make it into lfs so why even bother. This is just a little bin, Used purely to section all the crap that the devs dont wanna see.

Me neither.. and this topic was already brought up on this forum ~6 months or so ago IIRC, and got pretty much the same responses too.

Other than marketing retards and "can't-be-arsed-to-get-a-job" layabouts, no one else likes or wants to see advertising.. but these monkeys just don't get it. So out of touch with the real world it's laughable



Regards,

Ian

Still just greed, IMO. There's simply no reason for it.

If you can't stand the heat (read: can't afford a server), then get out of the kitchen (you know how the rest goes).

I've run and paid for my own server etc for the past 7 years. Never once have I considered advertising as a low-life method of generating revenue. I go out of my way to filter _all_ advertising I come across on the net using various methods including 300+ domains as DNS null zones.

I spent many hours coding various tools for the community, many hours creating 3DS scenes for renders, many hours offering help / advice on 3D stuff (not that I'm an expert, but people asked me (or at least on our team forum) as I created the scenes I guess). I also spend many many hours maintaining filtering for e-mail for various family members and friends. Have I ever asked anyone for a penny? or do I stick ads all over the place where I know people will look to get info / downloads? No. I want to run my sites, want to run my own server. If it comes to a point where I can't, I'll remove my server from where it's colo'd and think of something else to do.

Either way, I will circumvent their attempts and make the result publicly available if it ever becomes a reality.. maybe have it use a white / black list.. and of course, CTRA will be blacklisted by default



Regards,

Ian

I'd say +1 for the idea. But on my mind, only special accounts/LFS S2 Licence owners should be allowed to upload such things, for example all the mods here of LFSforum.net. I have the fear that there could be some kind of abuse, when everyone is allowed to upload. We have BMW, Castrol, ATL, Bridgestone, Avon, Michelin, Intel as let's call it "official" sponsors, due to some agreements between the devs and the companies. If anyone don't want them to be the ads on his/her LFS, it is possible to change it.
The for CTRA or some serious leagues (ESL Sports, eTM, GSL, MoE, ...), it is quiet useful, as they do have some contracts with companies, and this should be implemented for them for sure. They are getting the money by sponsors, they are getting the prizes by sponsors, and as they are professional leagues, they should get treated proffesionaly.

Do real life F1 spectators/drivers have an option to remove all track-side ads? Nope. Do they deter from the racing experience? Nope. In fact, are they detrimental to anything whatsoever? Nope.

Fair enough, there would be some childish idiots who would put up stupid ads. But we all know that all of the proper serious servers would have proper serious ads. I think it's a brilliant idea. It's not like spam really, no-one would be forcing you to look at the ads. You can still race normally. I have never heard of the Intel/BMW ads or any of LFS' made-up companies' ads distracting anyone or causing any sort of problem. In fact I have most of mine replaced with real-life ads to make it a bit more realistic.

As for e-mail spam, that's slightly different. You are being personally targeted there. It's rather like harassment compared to LFS ads...

@ Ian: No-one gives a crap if you don't want to put ads on your server, and you've blocked ads from over 300 domains. That's your business...No-one would think any worse of you for wanting to earn something back for hard work by putting up a couple of ads.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

[ snip ]

It's not like spam really, no-one would be forcing you to look at the ads.

How would it not be? If they're served by the server and there's no 'disable IGA' option in LFS, you _are_ forced to look at them, directly or indirectly.

Quote :

You can still race normally. I have never heard of the Intel/BMW ads or any of LFS' made-up companies' ads distracting anyone or causing any sort of problem. In fact I have most of mine replaced with real-life ads to make it a bit more realistic.

You're seriously missing the point. It's not the content, it's the principle.

Quote :

As for e-mail spam, that's slightly different. You are being personally targeted there. It's rather like harassment compared to LFS ads...

Not really. Spammers don't know me or most others they try to spam from Adam.. hardly personally targeted.

Quote :

@ Ian: No-one gives a crap if you don't want to put ads on your server, and you've blocked ads from over 300 domains. That's your business...No-one would think any worse of you for wanting to earn something back for hard work by putting up a couple of ads.

Some may, most would just block them.

Why can't people just do things for the enjoyment of doing things these days? Everything has to be about money and earning a "quick buck".. it's pathetic.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from SilverArrows77 :

[ snip ]

I cannot understand having such a closed mind to the option when in reality it doesnt change the general racers experience at all and would only further support the LFS/simracing community as a whole.

[ snip ]

It's not a case of having a closed mind. I have a very open mind to many things, just not forced advertising where some monkey who can't be arsed to get a job thinks he can plaster ads everywhere to make up for it. Simply principle.



Regards,

Ian

In my opinion, relevent banner advertising opens a huge number of doors for racing in LFS. It increases LFS's profile to corporate interest, which would benefit LFS as a whole with a broader awareness and acceptance of LFS as a racing simulator. This would ultimately result in more racers in servers, and this would result in busier servers.. all at no cost to existing racers (except maybe that more of the current banners become real companies.. ouch.. devastating :rolleyes

However, the threat to circumvent any type of billboard skinning, because you're completely OCD about self-denial of the existence of advertising and marketing, and threatening to push that far and wide will, guaranteed, do nothing at all to benefit LFS. Your determination to kill off anything that could potentially bring more awareness of LFS and choke off the existing racing in LFS is a bit sick, really.

That you declare your desire to

Quote from Ian.H :

make CTRA servers null&void after a short period I think

is a bit weird, a bit scarey and quite a bit obsessive.. but I'm sure, if you succeed in this mission of yours, should the opportunity arise, you'll at least have the thanks and admiration of the entire LFS community with the CTRA's passing. WTG you.

Quote from Ian.H :

You're seriously missing the point. It's not the content, it's the principle.

Of course it's not the content. That's obvious... or you wouldn't have created the heavily branded skins you have. I don't think you have the community's interests in mind at all. I sense a gleeful opportunist, eager to take down the "corporate monsters" with a bit of hackware. Nothing more, screw everything else. At least, that's how your posts read to me anyway

Some are worried about immature ads... Well, what about immature skins..?

And some companies/associations are sponsoring my S2 Voucher Competititon. That way they can have a FBM skin with their logo/web-site address etc. And I even force the competitiors to use these skins. Am I a capitalist now?

Quote from Ian.H :

How would it not be? If they're served by the server and there's no 'disable IGA' option in LFS, you _are_ forced to look at them, directly or indirectly.

But it's not like someone has put a big massive ad on your windscreen. If you're properly racing, you most likely wouldn't see them as you're focusing on the road

Quote from Ian.H :

You're seriously missing the point. It's not the content, it's the principle.

I'm not missing the point though. It's you who is focusing on the "spam/money-earning" side of it, whereas most people would call it added immersion I don't mind having a few ads around the track if it helps to keep CTRA and the like going.

Quote from Ian.H :

Not really. Spammers don't know me or most others they try to spam from Adam.. hardly personally targeted.

They're sending it to your personal inbox, meaning you have been personally targeted. It doesn't matter how many people they send it to, you've still been personally identified.

Quote from Ian.H :

Why can't people just do things for the enjoyment of doing things these days? Everything has to be about money and earning a "quick buck".. it's pathetic.

Because as Sam said, it's costing UKCT to keep the CTRA running. You may be too honest to place ads, but if the opportunity came up, I don't see why not. If it's covering their expenses, and they're not using it to their advantage to make a huge profit, I'd have no problem with it...

If IGA in the form of billboards would make it possible for us to seal a deal with a sponsor which could provide a service that would be relevant to our community (such as web- or game server hosting) I would not hesitate to use it.

We're currently using an Insim button to display a banner for 60 seconds as you connect to server. Even though only one single person has had a complaint I'd much rather use billboard advertising. (FYI the person in question withdrew his complaint when he realized that displaying that particular banner had made it possible for us to upgrade our previously struggling server).

/ liveforspeed.se staff