I've read about setups being encrypted in SPR files so people can't get a hold of them, but if you generate a RAF file you can get some parameters directly using applications like LFS Replay Analyser or simply using an hex editor and a little patience.

With the RAF file you can get gear ratios, all suspension settings, brake settings, and tyre compound.

OK, that's only part of the car setup, but it's a BIG part. I haven't found any post containing an official statement about this, and I don't know if this data in the header is mandatory in order to analyse the rest of the RAF file.

In our community we've come to the extent of deleting HL replays from lfsworld so other teams don't have access to our private setups. Even people who beat WRs won't upload them to avoid espionage.

Will it be possible in the future to have 'full' private setups in spr files? There are a lot of people concerced about this and keeping their private setups safe.

have a talk with phlos.

Reminds me a thread about "private layouts".

Shouldn't this be in the improvement suggestion -section?

Quote from Gekkibi :

Reminds me a thread about "private layouts".

Shouldn't this be in the improvement suggestion -section?

Mmm maybe this should be noted as a suggestion. If someone can move it...

On the other hand, I don't see much resemblance between private layouts and private setups. Well, that they're both private

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

On the other hand, I don't see much resemblance between private layouts and private setups. Well, that they're both private

They don't have lots of common, but the main concern of the OP of the private layout -thread was that he don't want others to use his layout on other servers (By disabling saving feature). Your concern is the same: You don't want others to use your setups.

what is the difference between MPR and SPR?

both are replay and the same to me

Quote from Mazink :

what is the difference between MPR and SPR?

both are replay and the same to me

SPR = Singleplayer replay
MPR = Multiplayer replay

Victor kind of replied to my first post here:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=42824

Quote :

NOTE (2) - The setup values controversy.
The idea behind RAF files and this hotlap analyser is to stimulate people to study their driving skills. Because hotlap analysis is now as easy as a couple of clicks, it should become much more attractive and fun to learn how to improve your driving. Part of this is studying basic setup settings. Yes some people regard full suspension values as too much, but it is only half of the full setup, and it is the part that people can learn the most from. Seeing why someone uses a softer or harder suspension on a certain track allows them to better see how suspension works and that it should not be the same for all tracks. These values can also be used in addition with the suspension movement and remaining range graphs in the analyser.
If you really feel that it is a breach of your privacy and do not wish others to learn from your hotlap, then you should not upload your hotlaps to LFS World, or anywhere else for that matter, because these values have been in RAF files ever since the format was created. I don't think we will remove them either.

I think it's realistic that you can get a few values with lots of fiddling - it IS possible in real life.

This is a brilliant idea. There's no reason not to make this change. After all, we all just want to become better drivers; you need to have a hell of a convincing reason to not want to share your setup.

Next step would be to hide your driving line during races. It is very important peace of information!
(No, this wasn't my opinion, just wanted to add little bit sarcasm to this thread)

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

Will it be possible in the future to have 'full' private setups in spr files?

The only sure way to do this is by disabling generation of RAF files from the SPR. Even if the setup data is omitted from the header, then you can still derive part of the setup from the telemetry data: if you know the forces, position and speed of each wheel, then you can reverse-engineer the suspension and brake values. (And getting the gear ratios is dead easy anyway.)

Quote :

In our community we've come to the extent of deleting HL replays from lfsworld so other teams don't have access to our private setups. Even people who beat WRs won't upload them to avoid espionage.

That sounds a bit paranoid to me. Which part of the setup is "leaked" by the SPR file, and is so critical that you need to keep it private? And how much can someone gain if he copies these settings from your team's setup (assuming he already has a reasonable setup of his own)? Does it make much difference in the race result?

Quote from wsinda :

That sounds a bit paranoid to me. Which part of the setup is "leaked" by the SPR file, and is so critical that you need to keep it private? And how much can someone gain if he copies these settings from your team's setup (assuming he already has a reasonable setup of his own)? Does it make much difference in the race result?

Yep.. it's a bit paranoic, but the championship is very competitive and some teams think of their setups being one of their most valuable resources (and know-how).
If you want to extract the data with the information of the graphs it could be more effort than making your own set... what people is complaining about is that you can get a really good set (that the owner could spent hours on making it) in a moment and without effort.
As we have one race every week, there's no much time to train the combo and make a good set (actually two, one for qualy and one for race :nod, so that is a big help for people (or some think that, I personally don't mind :shrug

Anyway...
Now for the devs... it could be possible to make the settings in the spr's / raf (about the set I mean) password protected? so you can allow certain people to fully watch the data by giving the spr password

Isn't the data in .raf for a reason? Meaning that if it wouldn't be there (And it would be encrypted) it would be like watching encrypted TV-broadcast..?

If you don't want your settings to be (partially) viewable, don't upload/distribute a SPR. It's as easy as that.

I can't understand why they should be kept private like it does any harm to its creator.

Quote from AndroidXP :

If you don't want your settings to be (partially) viewable, don't upload/distribute a SPR. It's as easy as that.

That's the obvious solution, but in our league we're facing a problem...
The system to inscribe people in the races make use of LFS-World times, both online and HLVC. That is mandatory to participate in the league races, so we can be sure times are valid (because of the HLVC's check). Online times are restricted by the automatic league system to 99.6% (minimum bound) of the HLVC to avoid cut-offs and other online "cheats".

So in order to continue using the HLVC / LFS-World system to validate lap times for the inscription and in the other hand keeping setups private for those who want it, it would be nice to have an option for that .

Quote from Gekkibi :

Isn't the data in .raf for a reason? Meaning that if it wouldn't be there (And it would be encrypted) it would be like watching encrypted TV-broadcast..?

No, it's perfectly possible to have a RAF file without the setup data. The reason to include it is, I guess, what Victor pointed out: to quickly see the differences in the setup, so you can see their effect on the car handling.

Quote from RocksGt :

If you want to extract the data with the information of the graphs it could be more effort than making your own set

It's more effort, but only needed once: to make a program that reverse-engineers the setup. After that you can use the tool many times, and also give it to others.

Quote :

what people is complaining about is that you can get a really good set (that the owner could spent hours on making it) in a moment and without effort.

That is not correct. You can not get a full setup from a RAF file. You only get a small part. The diff settings, toe-in, camber, caster, tyre pressures, and wing settings are not available.

Quote from RocksGt :

The system to inscribe people in the races make use of LFS-World times, both online and HLVC. That is mandatory to participate in the league races, so we can be sure times are valid (because of the HLVC's check).

In that case, people who worry about "spying" could drive their hotlap with a "semi-perfect" setup, and use their real setup only in the actual race. (I assume that the hotlap is only needed as proof that you are fast enough to take part in the race.)

Quote from wsinda :

That is not correct. You can not get a full setup from a RAF file. You only get a small part. The diff settings, toe-in, camber, caster, tyre pressures, and wing settings are not available.

Yep, I know... as I said before I don't mind about sets being public available, but I'm not a setuper so maybe I'm not giving the set the importance other people does

That was a long (16 pages actually) discussion at our league forum, and those who don't like public sets states that that small part of the set is big enough for them to share .

So... could be possible a pass-protected system for spr's? LFS-World could store the pass to show all data except the setup info, and if you want to see that info then you must enter the correct password

Quote from RocksGt :

So... could be possible a pass-protected system for spr's? LFS-World could store the pass to show all data except the setup info, and if you want to see that info then you must enter the correct password

Would it be possible for people just to be a little less paranoid, a little less vain, & a little less stupid?

I think it's totally pointless arguing about it for the very simple reason that 99% of the time when something in LFS is implement it is never reversed/changed because of pressure from users.

It's here and I'm pretty (99%) sure it's here to stay, so the only choice is to deal with it in your own why, break things in your room, slap yourself then just get on with playing the game.

Quote from nihil :

Would it be possible for people just to be a little less paranoid, a little less vain, & a little less stupid?

:ices_rofl

I don't understand either people being so competitive in a just-for-fun league, but things go that way

I hope they will get bored of deleting HL's to hide their sets.
Anyway... I didn't want to bother no one, just an improvement suggestion (the pass-protected thing)... for me things are nice as they are just now