so far ive been driving with forces on and tryed to keep front wheels on green but i took a look at wr and he enters every corner with the front wheels on red
so how do i know how much steering should i imput?
On turn in a lot of the time you will see the fronts go red. Lots of people seem to use the understeer and friction caused to slow the car down more. I prefer to barely steer and use the brakes to push the back round into corners. Also depends what car your in though. FWD cars will naturally understeer into corners.
To answer your question though, it all depends on the type of corner. fast corners then you barely turn, slower corners use the understeer driving style like you mentioned seeing.
When slowing and turning, such as corner entry, turning the fronts inwards to induce some understeer will prevent excessive oversteer. By modulating the amount of induced understeer, a driver can control the amount of oversteer, and maintain an near 4 wheel drift.
This method of using driver induced understeer is also used if driving a low or zero downforce car in a very high speed turn with the throttle pegged. Other than ovals, LFS doesn't have any tracks with flat out high speed turns, but Grand Prix Legends and real world tracks of the 1960's had some pretty scary turns, for example, a 190mph turn at the old Spa (in a 1967 F1 race car).
Moderate to high downforce cars are setup with more relative rear downforce than front downforce to prevent snap oversteer in high g turns, and driver induced understeer isn't needed (or wanted).
Ignore wr laps they are not race pace, think of them as qualify sessions. You go out, put in the lap and come back into change your tyres. It is impossible to maintain WR pace in race longer than a few laps, the tyres would not take it.
Those of us who compete in longer races know that R2s can be just as fast as R1s when they have done 20 odd laps and they start to wear thin and cool. And the last few laps before they pop, say after an hours worth of running, they generate huge amounts of grip and very little scrub.
Road tyres behave in a similar way after they begin to wear thin.
Ofcourse this only works if you have run aggressive pressures that meant the tyres got very hot between say 5 and 10 laps. This means they don't get too cold when they wear thin.
Just to illustrate, I have set some of my PBs on R2s in the FOX after 30 odd laps. You just have to get through that hot stage the tyres go through in their lifecycle.
What about cambers? I always get scared when I see that the inside of the tires warm up significantly faster. Therefore, for long races I lower the cambers to get a more flat temperature profile. But then my "problem" is that no part of the tyre ever gets orange/red, they all stay green until they get so worn that they go blue at the end of the race. I don't think this is optimal, either.. (I've only tried long races with the RAC/LX6/XRT/URF/FO8)
I run the same cambers for a short run as I would for a long race. I do find however that R1s work better with a touch more neg camber than R2s.
When the tyres go through the hot patch you have to amend your driving style to manage the temps for a few laps in order to maintain some reasonable level of grip. You can also set the front rear temp balance so that when they go through the hot stage you will suffer from understeer or oversteer depending on if the fronts get hotter than the rears or not.
FFB is fine. I can tell when the front is sliding. I can also tell when the rear begins to slide. I can even tell the difference between one of the rear wheels spinning up or both of them.
From FFB I can tell if I don't have enough front rebound.
The FFB and other sensory information in LFS is so good that I can tell whether I need a touch more front bump damping, more front spring rate or more front ARB and these situations ALL feel different.
But then I have been playing this game for 3 years and so I have become used to the feedback it gives.
How long have you been playing? You may just need more time to get a feel for it.
also, unless you're on ice or something...I don't think your wheel suddenly becomes light enough to turn with one finger
I've never understeered in a manual steering car, but have in my car with power steering. You don't get feedback from the wheel through difficulty to turn, more the car isn't going where you're telling it to, and you can feel the tires slipping.
In a go kart I didn't get a light steering experience either
What FF settings are you using? Because I want them.
I mean, I can sense similar things too, but I'm 99% sure most of these inputs are actually visual and not coming from the force feedback for me. The FF is nice, but most detail gets drowned out either due to clipping (max FF reached) or inadequate FF hardware (tiny force variations get lost when for example a generic "pull 50% left" is in effect). Considering how sometimes even brutal kerbs are not registered in the FF at all, I seriously doubt it can convey that much information. For example simple understeer (steer without throttle) is completely undetectable for me purely through FF. The way I notice it is when I sense the visual car rotation being less than what it should be for the current wheel position, but that has nothing to do with FF.
The question is, what do you feel because you want to feel it (fabrication of the mind), and what do you actually feel?
well definately the power diff locking and whether the inside rear wheel is spinning or not is a combination of both things. When the inside wheel spins up the steering FFB kicks less than when both wheels are spinning but also you get the visual input of the back sliding more when both rears light up. In addition the sound of the revs rising and how it behaves is also a very big indicator of the amount of diff lock.
Front rebound I can only setup by feel through the FFB. It's all clonky and horrible when there isn't enough. If there is too much you deaden the feedback (and also understeers off curbs and stuff which is visual mainly).
FFB gives me very good feedback as to whether the car is too stiff at the back or not. If it is the steering feels very light.
That is understandable, yes, when both wheels spin you obviously have much more body rotation. Oversteer in RWD cars is feelable, since it mainly happens around the big FF switch from left to right or vice versa.
That's kind of my point. It's mainly visual and aural, but barely any info comes through the FF, other than the very basic "where do the wheels point at" feedback, which is much more useful in RWD than FWD cars, as you only really notice it when the FF direction reverses. Changes in one-directional FF strength due to "things" happening are almost non-existent apart from heavy bumps and extreme situations such as both front wheels spinning or locking up.
Somehow I believe the most you feel is how light the wheel gets (due to the understeer-to-slight-oversteer transition), depending on how oversteery the car is, and how quickly it happens. Other than that there isn't really anything happening, at least when I try to turn off my experiences and objectively feel what the FF actually transmits.
However, good if it works for you
105% ingame FF at 220° rotation!? How do you feel anything but on/off forces?
Though maybe this is good to maximise the information you get from the left<>right FF switch, whereas the other turn resistance that you only feel as full force (instead of a gradual buildup like with lower FF%) is useless anyway.
So as I said and you have confirmed, it is impossible to run WR pace every lap for a long race. Your either have to run soft tyres and suffer the heat or run harder tyres and wait for them to come good and wear down.
How far is your PB you set off the related WR btw?
Most WR laps from what I know are a one shot attempt with a set done to exploit the most gains with no reguard for the mechanical sympathy of the car. If you tried to drive like that for a 50 lap race you would be in the pits every few laps or in the wall. Racing is about your overall time not lap times. Do you run slower to minimise pit time or push hoping the gains made on the track counteract the time in the pits etc.
Actually GTR2, Race and EVERY sim based on the ISI engine is wrong when it comes to understeer. Steering does not go light IRL like ISI try to make you believe
@Woz - I think Gentlefoot's right on that because in IGTC for example Rudy did beat his pb and WR near his last laps of the race on R3's that had gotten thin. The laptime was even better then the quali time if I remember correctly.
I've corresponded via email with a few club racers in non-downforce classes and this method is still used on some cars, usually mid-engine cars which are considered evil, oversteering monsters. One guy mentioned that driver induced understeer was the only way to keep his spec class Clio facing forwards when pushed to the limits.
Although induced understeer would seem like it would cook the tires, it doesn't, as the understeer isn't so extreme to be actually sliding the tires. One way to describe it's usage is as an alternative to trail braking on twitchy (oversteer prone) cars.
