Quote from SamH :

I don't perceive iRental to be make/break for the PC-based sim.

Yes, I didn't mean to be quite so black and white about it. I too don't think it will make or break sim racing on the PC, but that it will be a shame if it fails, and that it will be good for PC based sim racing if it does succeed.

Quote from dontsimon :

Yes, I didn't mean to be quite so black and white about it. I too don't think it will make or break sim racing on the PC, but that it will be a shame if it fails, and that it will be good for PC based sim racing if it does succeed.

I concur 100%

[edit] 80%. I don't think the move FROM purchase to a rental scenario is beneficial to anything/anyone.. PC-based or otherwise.

Quote from SamH :

To long to quote, edited for ease of use.

Couldn’t agree more. The thing that will likely put me off is that I can't grantee I'll play it enough to get value for money. And as a Scot I don't part with the money unless there is a product for me that I could use. The £24 I paid for LFS doesn’t measure up to what Iracing is wanting, however I will give it a month trial (book holiday I think) and may change my mind.

I actually find the idea of moving over from things to services quite a good one, atleast theoretically. When you buy anything, such as a computer- you're paying for all the materials that make up the computer.. glass, plastic, lead etc. But you don't actually want any of that stuff, you just want to use the computer! From an environmental perspective atleast, it's much better if the company takes responsibility for all those materials and sees to it that they're recycled at the end of a product's useful lifetime- and one way to do that is through rentals.

In practice though, I don't think it works so well. Everything ends up more expensive for the consumer when in fact it should be cheaper. Why World of Warcraft has been such an enormous success by going with this model is a complete mystery to me.

edit: sorry for the slightly OT

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Why World of Warcraft has been such an enormous success by using this model is a complete mystery to me.

Never underestimate the power of computer nerds...

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Why World of Warcraft has been such an enormous success by going with this model is a complete mystery to me.

Group mentality, simple as that... WoW created a hype prior to its launch, and everyone wanted to be "in"... Just like what happens with iRacing...

Many question marks have been brought up throughout the last pages... Will iRacing feature weather? dynamic tracks with varying grip levels, such as dirt on the track and racing groove? Will it feature authentic and detailed damage? How adjustable is its pricing in terms of suspending a week/month? How will special leagues (for example national ones) work within the server landscape of iRacing?

Or is it "just" a rented LfS with better graphics, tracks and tyre model?

Quote from bbman :

Will iRacing feature weather? dynamic tracks with varying grip levels, such as dirt on the track and racing groove?

im sure they would already have hyped the hell out of that if it did

:rolleyes:

Why don't you list for us all of the features that are present, according to the hype?

...

I don't know why they don't itemize individual features for us at this point, but they don't.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

:rolleyes:

Why don't you list for us all of the features that are present, according to the hype?

First one that comes to mind without even thinking is "laser-scanned tracks". In fact, anything laser-related comes to mind automatically. Bzzzt.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I don't know why they don't itemize individual features for us at this point, but they don't.

Closest thing appears to be the iRacing FAQ @ racesimcentral:
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=314586

To have all content, and have a years access it will be $266 if I worked it out correctly. $155 of that is monthly subscriptions... And this is including a $60 discount you get when purchasing an annual subscription.

"What Gameplay Options Are Included?

Note: iRacing will continually develop and gameplay options will be added throughout its development. Just because it is not listed in the launch material is no indication it will not be added. This section will be updated as we learn of new features to be added

Live groove: unknown
Animated pit crews: unknown
What are the garage options on the different cars: unknown
Are there day to night transitions: unknown
Is a spectator mode included: unknown
Weather - is rain included: Not at launch
Changeable weather: unknown
Clutch support: unknown
Driver changes: unknown
Ability to join in qualy: unknown
Ability to rejoin mid race: unknown
Are non US character sets supported: unknown
Is telemetry included: unknown
What kind of driver stats can be displayed: unknown
Can engines catch fire, drop oil etc.: unknown"

ROFL at that.

Are those known unknowns, or unknown unknowns? Or perhaps unknown knowns....

I suppose they're things that we know that we don't know. But for sure there are also things that we don't know that we don't know.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

ROFL at that.

Are those known unknowns, or unknown unknowns? Or perhaps unknown knowns....

I suppose they're things that we know that we don't know. But for sure there are also thing that we don't know that we don't know.

LOL yeah, it all sounds very professional though so it makes up for the lack of proper information

Make you broke: known

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

LOL yeah, it all sounds very professional though so it makes up for the lack of proper information

Still if those were the thigns that would be known, known to be included along with some other stuff like grip varying and rubber put on track -> increased grip and so on, i would not doubt the product, not for a second at the current pricing. Then and only then will the pricing scheme be acteptable to me, not bcz of some leet mapping and modeling and bcz of equal race system.
We can somehow experience close racing in leagues such as OLFSL, where racing tends to be as close as possible. If that is the only thing they are providing, then i wish them very best of luck. But as i allready said, if all those unknowns are gonna turn ou to be fully supported, thus trully providing the ralism in racing as never before seen, then i would consider purchasing it very seriously.

Live groove: Yes indeedy
Dirty offline: Yes indeedy
Weather : Nope

Force feedback : Not as good as nKPro, better than rFactor (not hard ) That's subjective of course, but i trust the judgement of the guy i was talking to.

What Tracks Are Included In The Initial Subscription?
Lime Rock Park x 2 (with or without the chicane)
Laguna Seca
Summit Point x 4?
South Boston
Lanier
Oxford Plains
Lowe's Motor Speedway x 4


--------------------------

What annoys me is that there is only 3 road tracks we get and the rest is ovals. This annoys me when i think about the cost of buying additional tracks. I would have wanted to exchange those 4 ovals with 4 road tracks.

I don't want to sound ignorant (although I probably will) but why do they need to laser scan ovals anyway? Surely that kind of technology would be much better suited to the more complex road tracks?

Quote from Electrik Kar :

but why do they need to laser scan ovals anyway?

Because they're not allowed to nuke them.

Quote from danowat :

I wouldn't worry about it, people like nihil just like to "fight the power"

LOL... Yes indeed, there are people like nihil who adopt a pose, but nihil just has a voracious curiosity that is hard to satisfy or placate with pre-packaged thought.

Quote from Danke :

I'm struggling with the concept of being a submissive consumer. The alternative is to be an aggressive consumer? Do I have this right?

Without a doubt, but it is rarely granted in a transparent fashion; you have to explore a bit to find ways of exercising this, unfortunately, little known right, but just start from the basis that anything is permissable.

PS. Can't add anything at the moment to Sam's eloquent treatise on this matter. Well done, sir.

I've not been watching this discussion since the $20 demo was announced, but if everyone stops just giving in to these things it's really easy to change the company's attitude.

If nobody pays the money for the demo, they will be forced to drop the price, or abandon it entirely. If only a handful of people sign up for the crazy subscription fee, they will need to rethink their strategy. It does work. Recently EA changed their plans because of the outcry made about one of their upcoming Pay2Play games (I forget which now, but I'm pretty sure it was EA).
But if people just mindlessly go ahead and pay it anyway, the company has no reason to complain - they make money.

And in a product like this where you NEED other players to make it worth the money, the company NEEDS as many accounts as it can get or the few who do sign up will quickly move on.

Quote from Dajmin :

I've not been watching this discussion since the $20 demo was announced, but if everyone stops just giving in to these things it's really easy to change the company's attitude.

If nobody pays the money for the demo, they will be forced to drop the price, or abandon it entirely. If only a handful of people sign up for the crazy subscription fee, they will need to rethink their strategy. It does work. Recently EA changed their plans because of the outcry made about one of their upcoming Pay2Play games (I forget which now, but I'm pretty sure it was EA).
But if people just mindlessly go ahead and pay it anyway, the company has no reason to complain - they make money.

And in a product like this where you NEED other players to make it worth the money, the company NEEDS as many accounts as it can get or the few who do sign up will quickly move on.

I am going to show my disapproval for their pricing structure by failing to purchase their product =)

The whole laser scanned tracks thing is only going to make the slightest difference to a very small minority of people, and of those an even smaller percentage will actually notice the accuracy on the track - the rest of them will simply be more smug about how realistic it is, despite having nothing to base a proper comparison on.

I've never driven at Lime Rock Park and the chances of me ever doing enough laps there to be able to notice if, in a game, a minor bump is not present are very slim. And it wouldn't really make any difference to me if it wasn't, even if I could notice it.

I don't know how well it will do. I'm not sure if there are enough people who take it all seriously enough.

sinbad - aren't they doing all this because they are targeting real racers, and not existing simracers like us? So it's that market that they are wanting to cough up the money, who I bet will care a lot more than us [simracers] if every bump is correct.

Quote from Bob Smith :

sinbad - aren't they doing all this because they are targeting real racers, and not existing simracers like us? So it's that market that they are wanting to cough up the money, who I bet will care a lot more than us [simracers] if every bump is correct.

That's the way they've always pimped it, but I think a lot of that is purely to make themselves look more professional.
Look at the types of cars they've confirmed so far. Most of them aren't vehicles that would really notice a 1mm inaccuracy