Quote from Fischfix :

ok lets face the facts:

most servers (especially public servers) are crowded by 12-17 year old kids who give a god damn poo about rules post race. "the standard of driving" is over after the race which is in my opinion not a bad thing.

And it is just your opinion. In others opinions in is a bad thing, it shows a lack of respect for those that do want the "standard of drivng" to be maintained at all times.

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everyone who wants can drive to the pits and spectate then, all the others can wreck their brains out. i still do not get what you want with this suggestion.

People to have respect for others that view it as a racing sim.

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do you wnat to force everyone else to enjoy the game exactly the way you enjoy it?

yes. Its a racing simulator. If you want to wreck go play another game where people don't take the racing so seriously. Have respect.

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if you want to run a server, take care of the server. end of story. if you want to run on clean servers go to servers which have that kind of rules.

Again I'll repeat. It's a racing simulator, the LFS devs themselves make a point about how on S2 servers this kind of behaviour isn't generally acceptable, (read the disclaimer before joining a server as a demo user - it's implicit in that statement).

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if you want to wreck after the race, go to servers which allow this kind of behaviour.

we do not need rules like this for all servers. period.

Clearly from your attitude we do.

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i do not want to repeat myself but: DON'T BE SO ANAL

I will repeat myself. It's a racing sim, not wrecking game. People have paid money on the basis that it's a racing sim and most are looking for racing immersion. Wrecking doesn't exist in real racing.

If you want a server where you can wreck, you go and host a server with your own money and make it perfectly clear that it's acceptable behaviour on your server. Don't go to other peoples servers and be disrespectful to other racers.

Quote from nihil :

The current voting system in LFS has proved itself time and again to be open to abuse, I see absolutely no need to extend its uselessness.

I'm not talking about ban voting, I'm talking about a rating system. If a server only allows players that have a certain rating, anyone who gets voted down enough will get automatically banned from the server until they can improve their rating again.

You start at 1000. Each negative vote takes some off, each positive adds some on. Servers get the option to allow only a certain rating to join. 500+, 1000+, etc. Nobody sees anyone else's votes, so you can't use the sheep voting of the current ban system. One vote per person per account, so you can't spam someone down by yourself and everyone has the ability to redeem themselves since a vote can be redone at any time. I'd also suggest that ratings not be publicly visible to prevent someone behaving nicely if they know they're in danger of getting banned.

Problem solved. Next!

How NOT to discuss an issue, in 5 easy lessons:

Quote from Fischfix :

ok lets face the facts:

1. Call your view on the matter "the facts", "reality", or "the truth".

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everyone who wants can drive to the pits and spectate then, all the others can wreck their brains out.

2. Tell the other side that it's their problem.

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do you wnat to force everyone else to enjoy the game exactly the way you enjoy it?

3. Exaggerate the others' opinion so it looks like tyranny.

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end of story.
[...]
period.

4. Declare the discussion closed after you've had your say.

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DON'T BE SO ANAL

5. Accuse the others of being immature.

Quote from Dajmin :

I'm not talking about ban voting, I'm talking about a rating system. If a server only allows players that have a certain rating, anyone who gets voted down enough will get automatically banned from the server until they can improve their rating again.

You start at 1000. Each negative vote takes some off, each positive adds some on. Servers get the option to allow only a certain rating to join. 500+, 1000+, etc. Nobody sees anyone else's votes, so you can't use the sheep voting of the current ban system. One vote per person per account, so you can't spam someone down by yourself and everyone has the ability to redeem themselves since a vote can be redone at any time. I'd also suggest that ratings not be publicly visible to prevent someone behaving nicely if they know they're in danger of getting banned.

Problem solved. Next!

I see problems here, but I do think your on to something Some sort of voting system where each racer can vote as they see fit, but not some mass vote where everyone wants to fit in whether they saw the crash or not.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

That said, I've been parked up resting my chin on my wheel after a race when someone's hit me causing the force-feedback to nearly dislocate my jaw...

I've had similar things happen to me. When I stop on the track (out of everyone's way mind you), I loosen my grip on my wheel and rest a hand or two on it. Someones hits me, the wheel snaps around an almost breaks my finger. I say what happened, and the stupid idiots keep crashing anyone including me. They keep doing it knowing they can physically injure someone, they don't give a rats ass. I either turn my FF off after races or spectate now. But this kind of thing needs to stop one way or another. Happens on ANY server, including CTRA and others with rules that say you can't pull shit like this.

meh, I just found it funny..

even the best simulator is still virtual not reality. wrecking a car after a race does not harm anyone. and form my point of view i do not have a problem with it.

so the easiest solution to this "problem" would be some sort of autopilot after a car passes the finish line.... or even better: after a car passes the finish line it gets a ghost and collision model is turned off. OR MUCH BETTER: after a car passes the finish line it just spectates.


the only real problem with "respect" in that field i can see is when you are close of being lapped and the leading group passes you and wrecks you out even though you still have to complete your lap.
THAT is not respectful. or those idiots who go the wrong way even though not everyone has finished the race.

but again after everyone has finished the race why not wrecking everything... the repairs are for free!

I think you missed the point. You said, who cares about wreaking it is virtual not reality. No one gets hurt. BUT, as people have said, they like to rest their hands on the wheel in such a way that when they get rammed unexpectedly, the forcefeed back can BREAK FINGERS. I don't know about you...but I would think that hurts.

Plus, having everyone turn into a ghost at the end of a race isn't real, and takes away from the immersion we all like from LFS.

Lastly, you said to have everyone spectate soon as they finish race, but the whole issue is that people try to test their setups or learn the track, and then get wreak by some idiot. Testing setups would be impossible if everyone was spectated.

What about a "/vote timeout 'username'" system?

For example, I finish my race, park next to the guy i had a huge battle with for 5 laps, and there comes fischfix ramming my car to the moon because he enjoys that.
With this "timeout" system I would vote a timeout for fischfix, and if 33% of the other drivers agree with me, he can't race the next race.
This system gets rid of the morons, but still allows people to test their new set. And if the system gets abused, then you just up the percentage so it's harder to abuse.

I think this can easily be done in insim.

I +1 that mate, i completely agree, I think it's an immersion killer too, I always cruise back to the pits, even more so if i have won the race or some such

Quote from mikey_G :

What about a "/vote timeout 'username'" system?

For example, I finish my race, park next to the guy i had a huge battle with for 5 laps, and there comes fischfix ramming my car to the moon because he enjoys that.
With this "timeout" system I would vote a timeout for fischfix, and if 33% of the other drivers agree with me, he can't race the next race.
This system gets rid of the morons, but still allows people to test their new set. And if the system gets abused, then you just up the percentage so it's harder to abuse.

I think this can easily be done in insim.

+1, this is sort of what Dajmin said. Would other people be able to see what you voted? or would it be anonymous? The other problem with having them just be kicked out for one race is that soon as the race ends, they will re-join and just start wreaking everyone again.

I'm starting to think that all voting should be anonymous and that the way to start a vote should be easier. If you don't have your connections list up it takes a few seconds to either type or find the name and click it, and you certainly can't spend too much time doing that if you're racing.
Maybe something like Ctrl+B to start a Ban vote, then an F12 style menue to scroll through the list for the person you want?

The whole rejoining reason is why I think it should be a permanent record of your reputation. Sure, you can ban someone from YOUR server, but other than that you're relying on everyone doing the same thing - and sometimes passing a vote can be a nightmare.

The only problem would be how you'd get your Rep score back up if you couldn't join any servers. Maybe it could start counting back up if you don't get any negative votes within a certain period of time? Maybe you could get +25 points per 24 hours as long as you (1) are under the default score (1000), and (2) don't get voted down again in that time. That way they get some time out to think about what they did without having to buy a new account to actually play. If you only got a couple of races every week people would think twice about being a muppet. If 32 people all gave you negative votes it could be a month before you got back onto a default rated server.

Some of you guys have a real scary obsession with realism if you ask me.

Anyway, as I've read, servers that are meant for real serious hardcore realism do have measures against it. I don't see why you would expect every user of LFS to be as serious... That's just simply denying the reality that it is a game and it will always be a game. If it's not a game, you shouldn't be able to _play_ online for free (or for a little bit of money) if you ask me.

If you can't wreck in the race and you can't reck after the race how can you play bumper-cars online??

Quote from Pittaman :

Some of you guys have a real scary obsession with realism if you ask me.

Anyway, as I've read, servers that are meant for real serious hardcore realism do have measures against it. I don't see why you would expect every user of LFS to be as serious... That's just simply denying the reality that it is a game and it will always be a game. If it's not a game, you shouldn't be able to _play_ online for free (or for a little bit of money) if you ask me.

If you can't wreck in the race and you can't reck after the race how can you play bumper-cars online??

The more realistic the game becomes, the closer to real life racing we can all get. And the more closely we can compare ourselfs to real racing drivers (I imagine)

Hey, you don't hear me saying a bad word about the realism of the game. It's great. But I do not think the game itself as a whole should be deprived from all silly stuff... surely if you organize a serious event people would be more serious (I would) and they'll believe they're actually racers.

But why would anyone enforce such a realistic environment everywhere? That does not make sense to me. It's not a sacred "thing" that may never be messed around with, it's a game as far as I know.

More realism is always a good thing, but doing crazy unrealistic stuff in such an environment can be very fun as well I think, it's not something to be ashamed of.

Quote from Pittaman :

Hey, you don't hear me saying a bad word about the realism of the game. It's great. But I do not think the game itself as a whole should be deprived from all silly stuff... surely if you organize a serious event people would be more serious (I would) and they'll believe they're actually racers.

But why would anyone enforce such a realistic environment everywhere? That does not make sense to me. It's not a sacred "thing" that may never be messed around with, it's a game as far as I know.

More realism is always a good thing, but doing crazy unrealistic stuff in such an environment can be very fun as well I think, it's not something to be ashamed of.

If you and Jim want to smash into each other, go ahead and smash into each other. But just don't smash into John as you and Jim have no idea if John likes to play that way. And do it in a manner that you minimize the risk of someone who may be looking to get a few practice laps in while waiting for the restart.

NEVER EVER cross that finish line in the opposite direction. There may be a racer coming who hasn't finished yet.

I think this should remain as a rule enforced in league racing and by servers. I don't like wrecking after the race, but I do like seeing people doing spins and doughnuts to show they are happy after the race. I would hate it to be like F1 where you are not allowed to do doughnuts to celebrate a victory.

Just hotlap by yourself or race in those leagues people are talking about where u can't wreck at the end of the races. God, its just fun and its a game. Some of you lot must be the most boring people in the world to go to the pub with.

Hey I got an idea!!! If you come off at say Blackwood a heap of times, you get permanently banned for driving like an ar$e and causing crash's at that track! Surely if you go flying off the track at a real venue 10 times a week, crashing into someones ferrari 5 times a week, and drifting through pit lane you would be in some real trouble. Ooooo we could have an LFS jail and your game gets locked up for 5 years for causing a crash that killed lots of online racers!
Also, in the practice servers the cars should be grouped into class's and if your car is not in that class you have to watch for 45 minutes until its your turn on the track. Oooooo and another good idea, lets pay a hundred bucks everytime we log onto a track! and if theres a race on even more!
Wow LFS would be really awesome and realistic then! BRING ON LFS 3!!!

-1

If you pull drivers from thier cars after a race it will seem to "NFS" like, i.e you are only on the track for the duration of the race. What if you spin off? Would the server think "ah, he's spun off, we won't let him rejoin until after this race"?

If you have finished, you aren't racing any more and I don't see why you get so angry if someone crashes you after the race. It hasn't affected your position, or am I missing something...?

It doesn't affect the race at all, but a lot of people (myself included) use post-race time to try new setups or to try and improve our line round a particular section. If some muppet is wrecking everyone then we can't do that. And by the time the next race starts it's too late.

Quote from dontpannic :

If you have finished, you aren't racing any more and I don't see why you get so angry if someone crashes you after the race. It hasn't affected your position, or am I missing something...?

you're not missing anything, it's just people taking a game far too seriously

Except that the people who want to wreck everyone on the field are clearly not taking it seriously enough. Your own gaming enjoyment shouldn't spoil that of other people.

Fingers crossed that future improvements to the damage and collision models will make post-race wrecking harder or near impossible. So when some moron decides they have to start crashing into people, they'll only be able to do it once and then be left with a car with no radiator, the tyres jammed into the bodywork and unable to roll or turn, the engine in the passenger seat, and so on - and he won't be able to do it any more. It's only the current damage model that allows people to bash and bump around like they do after the race. When it (the damage system) (hopefully) gets a LOT more sensitive, it'll stop a great deal of the problems.

I don't see as much of it now as I used to, but post race wrecking is incredibly annoying. The FFB causing the wheel to whip round is a genuine cause for concern, whether you have your chin resting on the wheel (I do that too sometimes) or your fingers resting on the spokes, or even if the wheel is left unattended. I've parked my car up well out of the way before then jumped out my seat to get a drink/take a piss etc before the next restart, and some twat still manages to hit me.

Quote from pittaman :

and you can't reck after the race how can you play bumper-cars online??

I think you've bought the wrong game mate. Oh, wait...

I don't see the problem.
If you don't like it, go to pit, spectate or hide behind something. Usually I crash ( start flaming me ) something after finishing. This is a good way to relaxe myself after a longer intence race. Nothing helps more than going 200 km/h straight into someone after finish and then see them fly. Call me strange, but I don't see the problem, even if someone crashes me I don't mind that.

I think what is needed is an insim application that detects you are off the racing line if stationary after the race end.

The problem isn't wreckers, they can do their stuff all they please out of the way. The problem is some people need/want to get some laps in between races and cant always do that. Provided those who park do so away from those navigating the track then all is well.

tbh I havnt seen this as such a big issue since coming back to active racing.

Drivers going back over the finish line and interfering with cars who are still racing is of course blattant race wrecking behaviour and should result in a ban.

I've found that if I park out of the way I dont get crashed into, something to consider maybe.

Often times I cross the line and just let go of everything, i'm not wrecking as my car hurtles off into whatever barrier (whether a player or piece of track) - i'm probably pressing T...