Hi guys! well, I've decided to make this thread so that if you have any suggestions to improve the league, you can state here . Any discussions regarding race dates or start times are to be discussed in the race calendar poll.

Fixed Setups : I love the idea, but how fixed are they?

I would fix

:- Suspension (only values between 'x' and 'x' are permitted)
:- Gears (fixed no change)
:- Weight (obviously done)
:- Intake (obviously done)

suspension is fixed too .

Well, after me and Benji (you're welcome to join in of course when we're on ) try and sort out a good baseline setup, I'll post the new rules regarding restricted setups. According to what we were looking at, the only things in suspension that are adjustable are ride height, dampers (both bump and rebound) and ARB, leaving just the spring stiffness. We're thinking of using 250 Nm spring stiffness to simulate the real cars. We tested it last night, its not too bad really . Dampers are hard to tune because you need to get them perfect or the car bounces too much or flies off.

Is the diff type also fixed, and will there be a different fixed set for each race? I'm asking b/c the gear ratios would need to be altered going from circuit to circuit.
Also, it may be a good idea to set a maximum brake force value to simulate real cars.

*As a clarification to the rules, there are no mandatory pitstops during the race, right?

In real life the drivetrain is fixed and we have tested on BL1 and WE1 and i tested AS7 and it feels fine. Somehow porsche got pretty near perfect gearing...

Downforce will be fixed, 4deg on the front and the rear can move between quite a big range i think.

From what i understand all the fixed values are:

• Drivetrain
  
• Spring rates - although new patch allows stiffer springs.
  
• Front downforce
  
• Brake pressure

Quote from BenjiMC :

In real life the drivetrain is fixed and we have tested on BL1 and WE1 and i tested AS7 and it feels fine. Somehow porsche got pretty near perfect gearing...

I thought IRL teams are able to change gear ratios between races. Or perhaps that's just the higher classes of motor racing. Either way, if the setup works across the board, then that's great.

Quote from BenjiMC :

In real life the drivetrain is fixed and we have tested on BL1 and WE1 and i tested AS7 and it feels fine. Somehow porsche got pretty near perfect gearing...

Downforce will be fixed, 4deg on the front and the rear can move between quite a big range i think.

From what i understand all the fixed values are:

• Drivetrain
  
• Spring rates - although new patch allows stiffer springs.
  
• Front downforce
  
• Brake pressure

Benji, is there any chance you could tell me where you found this information because I read the .pdf document (provided in the original thread) and theres nothing about the restricted downforce settings or dampers so I'd like to have a read through the document where you found this info . According to rFactor, the front wing is restricted at 1 degree and I think the max you can set for the rear wing is 10. Reason why I'm using rFactor for reference because the PCC 2007 mod was tested by one of the drivers of the PCC, Ralph Kalaschek so I'm sure he would've told them whats allowed to be adjusted and what isn't.

Correction: Rear wing max is 12

Yeah, i said the front downforce was restricted, not the rear . As there is nothing secific about the front i guess it's not adjustable at all.



20.1. The gearbox ratios specified for Classes 997 and 996 A must be used. Class
996 B must use the original gear ratios. Factory approved Porsche GT3 Cup
upgrades are permitted.

Dampers cant be adjusted i found afte a re-read of the tech pdf.


7.1. Only Sachs adjustable suspension struts in original condition as fitted at the
factory must be used for Type 996 from MY2002 to 2005 cars. MY2001 cars
must have suspension struts in original condition as fitted at the factory.
Approved factory upgrades are permitted. Type 997 from MY2005 to
MY2008 must be fitted with the original Sachs suspension dampers.
Alteration of the bump/rebound characteristics is prohibited.

Source
http://www.motorsport.org.nz/P ... 8%20GT3%20Tech%20Regs.pdf

thanks Benji . About the downforce bit, can you link to the document where you found it?

Same document.

It's more an assumption based on the information given than solid facts.



15.1. The position of the rear spoiler profile may be changed within the prescribed
adjustment range for the model.

From what I've read in the tech spec pdf, diff preload is adjustable between 80-180 Nm...

Also, the damping seems very very soft for that spring frequencies, remember that the setups you took the average from use far softer springs, where you need softer damping...
If you look at the relative damping in VHPA, you'll see what I mean...

Also, there are quite a few threads where you list what values to use, and every one of them says something different...

For reference to which values to use , check the setup restrictions topic here. I've stated two fixed suspension settings.

Quote from Leprekaun :

For reference to which values to use , check the setup restrictions topic here. I've stated two fixed suspension settings.

your setups are not consistant with the rules you have set

Think you need to go proof check them m8

for instance in your normal set the added mass is at 25%

your rules say this must be a minimum of 37%

errors like this will come back at bite you. also the way you have explained it is poor. I would seperate out ALL the fixed criteria in one section. Then the 'minimum settings' in a onther, then finally 'free' section, that way it is clear as black and white and not open to 'interpretation'

Hope you see the constructive parts of this post

Regards,

Dru.

another point..

how are you going to scrutineer the wing levels and tyre pressures?

Afterall you say that people can submit setups after qualifying.

I could say for instance go out with low pressure front tyres and then do my hotlap then come into the pits before the end and change tyre pressures on next set to the legal limit.

Same goes for rear downforce (or front for that matter)

How will this be scrutineered??

There is this in insim:

struct IS_PIT // PIT stop (stop at pit garage)
{
byte Size; // 24
byte Type; // ISP_PIT
byte ReqI; // 0
byte PLID; // player's unique id

word LapsDone; // laps completed
word Flags; // player flags

byte Sp0;
byte Penalty; // current penalty value (see below)
byte NumStops; // number of pit stops
byte Sp3;

byte Tyres[4]; // tyres changed

unsigned Work; // pit work
unsigned Spare;
};

// Pit Work Flags

enum
{
PSE_NOTHING, // bit 0 (1)
PSE_STOP, // bit 1 (2)
PSE_FR_DAM, // bit 2 (4)
PSE_FR_WHL, // etc...
PSE_LE_FR_DAM,
PSE_LE_FR_WHL,
PSE_RI_FR_DAM,
PSE_RI_FR_WHL,
PSE_RE_DAM,
PSE_RE_WHL,
PSE_LE_RE_DAM,
PSE_LE_RE_WHL,
PSE_RI_RE_DAM,
PSE_RI_RE_WHL,
PSE_BODY_MINOR,
PSE_BODY_MAJOR,
PSE_SETUP,
PSE_REFUEL,
PSE_NUM
};




Although i dont know if it detects the things you can do in the f12 menu, what dru is pointing at.

Quote from Dru :

your setups are not consistant with the rules you have set

Think you need to go proof check them m8

for instance in your normal set the added mass is at 25%

your rules say this must be a minimum of 37%

errors like this will come back at bite you. also the way you have explained it is poor. I would seperate out ALL the fixed criteria in one section. Then the 'minimum settings' in a onther, then finally 'free' section, that way it is clear as black and white and not open to 'interpretation'

Hope you see the constructive parts of this post

Regards,

Dru.

Yeah, sorry about that . I'll make sure to check the sets if I adjust the setup restrictions. Thanks for bringing up the point of changing setup in pit stops. Unfortunately, I have very poor knowledge of programming so I wouldn't be able to create an application to detect setup changes in pit stops so I'll try and think of something of how to scrutineer that.

Regarding tyre pressures, I'm aware that the fronts usually max out around 100 degrees (optimum all the time) while the rears can go up to 110-120. I'm going to do some testing tonight with Benji so will talk to him about how we can balance fix the tyre pressures problem.

As for the constant rule changes, I apologise for it but really, its hard to setup the FZR in general, let alone set it up to work with all tracks which is why, some rules are being adjusted. I'll post the sets with the updated rule changes so far in the Setup Restrictions topic.

About the clarity of whats restricted and whats not, honestly, I don't think theres much to it . First part is restricted settings, 2nd part is adjustable settings .

i would personally leave tyre pressures down to the driver, as different styles of driving mean different temps.

thus making it not fair on a driver with an agressive style, and someone like me who drives carefully mean cold tyres all the way through.

Quote from bbman :

From what I've read in the tech spec pdf, diff preload is adjustable between 80-180 Nm...

Also, the damping seems very very soft for that spring frequencies, remember that the setups you took the average from use far softer springs, where you need softer damping...
If you look at the relative damping in VHPA, you'll see what I mean...

...

I've tried softening the dampers by about 1 or 2 Ns but then the car either bounces on entry if you're going in fast or if going in slow for a fast exit, bounces on exit (literally bounces off the ground). One of the reasons why I'm considering the alternate suspension settings is because we have to note that the 260 N springs have been specifically set for the 911 GT3 Cup car, and not the FZR. They're similair but still, they're different enough for certain settings.

I'll be doing some more testing tonight. I would greatly appreciate it if a lot of you could attend as the more drivers racing, the more data I can gather and feedback. The set has to be somewhat neutral, if not a bit understeery to be well suited for most drivers.

Maybe I've worded it wrong: the dampers are way too soft already! No point in making them even softer...

Hi guys! I like how far this idea of using RL set has made it I've also tried to do something about it, I think your rebound is too low, I would leave bump to something like 5-6 Rear and same for front, for the rebound I would set it to something like 17-18. Also try to "drop" the car while in garage, you will notice how it bounces alot. Then do this: increase tire pressure A LOT, it almost wouldn't bounce.
I didn't watch too many GT3 cup races for long time, but I don't remember any bouncing, this is probably due to GT3 cup RL tyres having stiffer sidewalls then LFS ones.

Onto the rFactor thing. I also tought of checking into PCC2007 mod about data; GSMF (modding team which created it) said that they got all car specs from a real team!
But again, just looking at rFactor's garage screen is I would saynot correct at all. PCC .hdv files needs to be checked. WHY?
Well, because, you cannot litteraly transfer values from rF to LFS.
Hmm it seems stupid, are you sure? I'm pretty much sure about it, because: in .hdv file you define what is the default amount of downforce generated, then you define steps how much is it increased when in garage and finally how many steps will be there.
So, values should be checked. I will do it tomorrow, since now I'm not at home, and I don't have anything installed over here.

I'm not sure where else to ask this, but are we supposed to use the same setup in races as in qualifying? Or there can be another set for qualifying (adjusting the allowable parameters, of course)?

i think there are going to be 2 different ones.

Yes, 2 sets are permitted as long as they're within the setup restrictions.

Just wondering, since there's a separate set for qualifying, would it be possible to allow F12 menu adjustments during the qualifying? So things like tire pressures, camber, rear wing angle, etc. I undertand that you (the admin) can see when somebody changes these parameters during a pitstop, but can you see what the new values are set to? If you cannot see the values, then just ignore this.

I'm asking is because real teams are able to (and often do) make small changes during the qual. session.