Quote from Hyperactive :

Imho, if we really would get a more powerful FZ5 I'd like to see it rear wheel drive as well. Somewhere between 500 and 600 is good for me

Isn't that the FZR?

I think the entire point of making 911 turbo a 4WD is reducing the danger of the rear losing traction, and entering the dreaded fishtail. Honestly, I don't think any high powered, rear-engined car would do well with only RWD, at least when we talk about "sports/super cars" instead of "race cars".

911 GT2. Nuff said.

+1 for FZT
-1 for FZ5 4wd

FZT!

Even Micra has turbo version, so why wouldn`t our lovely FZ?

Quote from Primoz :

911 GT2. Nuff said.

For the not so sane guy who thinks:

Hmm, 550hp FZT, not too bad, could use a bit more power and greater rear tire consumption.

YOu've got a right foot, don't you? Use it!

Just for the record, i have 2 problems with that - my right foot is NOT a TC capable limb and my MOMO pedals are all borked.

Quote from Primoz :

You've got a right foot, don't you? Use it!

Just for the record, i have 2 problems with that - my right foot is NOT a TC capable limb and my MOMO pedals are all borked.

It is obvious that you simply refuse to abide by the laws of physics. Even with excellent throttle control, overpowered RWD cars will always consume their rears even more enthusiastically than your average FF shopping cart consumes its fronts. This assumes that the car is setup without excessive understeer (the usual case with overpowered RWD cars) and excellent throttle control is used to squeeze every millisecond out of it.

BTW, TC actually INCREASED rear tire consumption in F1 for most drivers and cars due to its ability to consistently get the most out of them. Something most drivers can't do for 1.5 hours straight.

There are many ways of manual (driver) throttle control. One is pulse width, height and frequency modulation made famous by Aryton Senna, with his ability to tap the throttle at amazing rates and precision. The other is what I and incidentally Michael Schumacher (and many other great drivers) use, which is progressive ramping (i.e. squeezing the throttle gradually and flooring it when the time is right).

So the class that a 500HP FZT would fit in would equally consume more tires than (say) the TBO class... And it'd be realistic.. What's the problem? Just give them hard slicks like people use in real track days. R5s, or something.

A class with something like an 500hp+ FZT (very cool but a bit redundant if the class only adds 3 cars or so to LFS), a mid engined exotic (I'd say with a mill as golden as Ferrari's or Lamborghini's), and a big block FR like the Vette or Viper, like Hyperactive said.. That'd be really cool. Even more so if they all had GTR versions, too.

Quote from Breizh :

So the class that a 500HP FZT would fit in would equally consume more tires than (say) the TBO class... And it'd be realistic.. What's the problem? Just give them hard slicks like people use in real track days. R5s, or something.

A class with something like an 500hp+ FZT (very cool but a bit redundant if the class only adds 3 cars or so to LFS), a mid engined exotic (I'd say with a mill as golden as Ferrari's or Lamborghini's), and a big block FR like the Vette or Viper, like Hyperactive said.. That'd be really cool. Even more so if they all had GTR versions, too.

I emphasized excessive REAR tire consumption, something which still plagues the Porsche GT3 class to this day. Not saying that there's anything wrong with greater OVERALL tire consumption for a supercar class.

A 3 car supercar class with FZT 30/70 RWD (or RWD with BIG rear slicks and relatively skinnier (vs. 4WD) fronts), an MR or M4WD (R8 equivalent) and an F/R (e.g. Crovette) would be great. Agreed.

I'll rather have 3 new fun to drive supercars than another underpowered downforce car like the new one that just popped up in Patch Y.

Quote from Jamexing :

I'll rather have 3 new fun to drive supercars than another underpowered downforce car like the new one that just popped up in Patch Y.

Hehe, at least there is something I agree with you

Quote from Jamexing :

A 3 car supercar class with FZT 30/70 RWD (or RWD with BIG rear slicks and relatively skinnier (vs. 4WD) fronts), an MR or M4WD (R8 equivalent) and an F/R (e.g. Crovette) would be great. Agreed.

Sounds sensible. Here's my varient on the theme.

FZT 4WD - like a 4WD 911, but with the Turbo unit dropped in the arse
Lister Storm clone
McLaren F1 clone

Note the lack of numbers, they need fudging to make them a class. All would be fitted with "ROAD_HYPER" tyres, a road legal (but only just) tyre.

An added Brucie Bonus would be GTR versions with stupid amounts of power, but I'd be happy with just the road versions.

Jamexing, that's what I meant.. (I can't think of any FF supercar!) What's the problem? They work in reality, don't they? I can't remember any motorsports competition where a 500-600hp (or so) high range sports car was disqualified by its own rear tire consumption.. And like I meant to say, I can't really imagine any such car that couldn't cope with tires such as "R5" track day slicks. I'm pretty sure R4s would suffice for many, if not most, of this type of car.

Quote from Breizh :

Jamexing, that's what I meant.. (I can't think of any FF supercar!) What's the problem? They work in reality, don't they? I can't remember any motorsports competition where a 500-600hp (or so) high range sports car was disqualified by its own rear tire consumption.. And like I meant to say, I can't really imagine any such car that couldn't cope with tires such as "R5" track day slicks. I'm pretty sure R4s would suffice for many, if not most, of this type of car.

Just so that there's no misunderstanding, I clarify that I have NOTHING against your suggestion.

To be absolutely clear, I was referring to experiences in Lemans, where all other cars no longer have much to consider in terms of tire durability, though the Porsche GT3 class is one class where rear tire durability concerns haven't been quashed to such an extent yet. Do NOT under any circumstance interpret this as "DISQUALIFICATION FROM EXCESS TIRE WEAR".

The whole idea of a rear biased 4WD FZT is to make the most of the 500-600hp it should have and save having to balance the 3 car supercar class via excess rear tire consumption. Last thing I would want is to have the same balancing issues as the current GTR class. If none of the cars suffer from excess tire wear, we can much more easily balance them with performance, making all 3 good for races of all lengths.

It's a pretty tight line to walk, I agree.. Especialy with the tire model still a work in progress.

Ah, that's what you mean. I thoguht you meant problems for begginers that don't know not to bash the throttle. But it is obviuso that would happen, yes. With 600 bhp, flooring it would make it spin the wheels just slightly, not necceserily sliding. ANd we have frction which causes a rise in temps. WHich means we get less grip and more wheelspin.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Imho, if we really would get a more powerful FZ5 I'd like to see it rear wheel drive as well. Somewhere between 500 and 600 is good for me

It would also need a mid-engine competitor, like a Ferrari F40 AND McLaren F1 AND Maserati MC12. And a front engine competitor like Corvette Z06 AND Dodge Viper GTS.

Naturally a smaller supercar class would be nice with cars like Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione, TVR Sagaris, Ferrari F430, BMW M3 and ...

As for rotary (wankel) engine, maybe one for a prototype...

Here's a good list: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=254973#post254973

While I agree with your mid engine choices, I don't quite agree with the front engine one's. The Z06 perhaps, definitely no vipers, they're so terrrible, a Ford GT would be much better.

Also I would like to see a R32 thrown into the mid range mix. Basically the XFR with AWD, 6spd re-geared, a bit heavier and bigger, riding on 18-19" F/R.

In the end, I'll be happy with one new car to each class(while not losing any present cars, I love them all), and one new class all together, which would make for what, 6 new cars. I think this would please everyone. Although all I want to really really see is an american style rwd muscle car, and an awd 200-250hp hatch.

Quote from DHRammstein :

While I agree with your mid engine choices, I don't quite agree with the front engine one's. The Z06 perhaps, definitely no vipers, they're so terrrible, a Ford GT would be much better.

The GT's not a front engine car, although it is the sort of big US engine-powered sports car LFS needs. What's terrible about the Viper?

Quote :

Also I would like to see a R32 thrown into the mid range mix. Basically the XFR with AWD, 6spd re-geared, a bit heavier and bigger, riding on 18-19" F/R.

.. That's nothing like an R32, and if it's going to be a Skyline, it'll need the electronics, four-wheel steering, etc.[/QUOTE]

THought of the GTR too, but i think he means the Golf

Quote from DHRammstein :

While I agree with your mid engine choices, I don't quite agree with the front engine one's. The Z06 perhaps, definitely no vipers, they're so terrrible, a Ford GT would be much better.

Also I would like to see a R32 thrown into the mid range mix. Basically the XFR with AWD, 6spd re-geared, a bit heavier and bigger, riding on 18-19" F/R.

In the end, I'll be happy with one new car to each class(while not losing any present cars, I love them all), and one new class all together, which would make for what, 6 new cars. I think this would please everyone. Although all I want to really really see is an american style rwd muscle car, and an awd 200-250hp hatch.

I agree that Vipers aren't really that good for racing track on basic form but firstly there isn' really that much choise in the front engine super car sector. And secondly who says we'd have be stuck with the normal versions, just put some track tech into them as they will be fictional cars anyway. Imho, with properly balanced with ballast and tech, the Z06, Viper, Ferrari F40, McLaren F1 along with some 911 GT3 and xxx would create easily two new classes. One is the hi-power track day specials and another is the natural progression of this, the "LFS-GTR-1" class

Quote from Breizh :

.. That's nothing like an R32, and if it's going to be a Skyline, it'll need the electronics, four-wheel steering, etc.

R32 as Volkswagen Golf R32 . Imho, that R32 does not belong into this discussion.

My bad I completely forgot the GT was rear engine, damn, if it weren't, well, it woudln't be the car it is, and I wouldn't recommend it. I guess the Vette would be good, they're great on the track, just never bother owning one, they're terrible otherwise, but that has no effect on the game itself. All in all, I think a top of the line Saleen Mustang would do just fine, along with the Z06. Vipers, ehh, just too sloppy for me, I only got to drive one once, it was a mid 90's RT/10, it had like 25k miles on it, and it fealt like it was falling apart. It was very unforgiving, it fealt like a fantastic engine, with the rest of the car thrown together from junk yard parts. I dunno, hard to explain, just my opinion tho. I feel a Z06 or Saleen would be far superior.

But if there's anyway to get a Ford GT into this sim, wooooh, I would be going nuts. The power, the balance, just, perfection. American power with european suspension, brakes, and well, everything else lol.

Oh, that's right.. That R32, duh!

The muscle/US sports car.. It probably wouldn't have to be, and wouldn't be very likely to be just like the Vette or Viper. Neither of them are so atypical or unique in any way (besides the Viper's huge engine) that they'd have to be replicated exactly, like e.g. the 911 was. The big V8/V10 engine and FR drivetrain would be the main thing, and then Scavier can sort out the chassis and bodywork around it..

And I'm split between a new GTR class, and adding these pure sports cars to the GTR class we have now. It'd be really fun to have a 6-car (or more) GTR class. I don't expect we'll get as many as 4 or more new cars for such a new road legal class, though.

Quote from Breizh :

Oh, that's right.. That R32, duh!

The muscle/US sports car.. It probably wouldn't have to be, and wouldn't be very likely to be just like the Vette or Viper. Neither of them are so atypical or unique in any way (besides the Viper's huge engine) that they'd have to be replicated exactly, like e.g. the 911 was. The big V8/V10 engine and FR drivetrain would be the main thing, and then Scavier can sort out the chassis and bodywork around it..

And I'm split between a new GTR class, and adding these pure sports cars to the GTR class we have now. It'd be really fun to have a 6-car (or more) GTR class. I don't expect we'll get as many as 4 or more new cars for such a new road legal class, though.

Adding more cars into the GTR class would make it even more harder to balance. Increasing the number of cars in GTR class to six wouldn't really present anything new. Those cars really exist for multi-class racing and that aspect is 90% missing atm. And it is the biggest issue of that class atm imho. As close 2nd comes the lack of mid-engine GTR .

Imho, a new class over the current GTRs would make things more interesting. Firstly it would be totally new car class and secondly it would allow real multi class racing. Like if the current cars were the GT2 cars, the new cars would be the GT1. Just add the protos and the top of the line slick-tintops are almost done . (just add a stock car :tilt.

Naturally a class with no wings, lots of power and grippy no-slick tires, the super trackday-car class, would be teh killer for me after new tracks. Viper has some character so I'd like to see it in some form even if it isn't that good at track if compared to it's possible opponents, but then again, I already solved that in my previous post

I'm also for a new GTR class over them (FZR Turbo being one for example, like the Alzen Porsche), with prototypes over that.

But i'd also change the engines in the current XRR/FXR. These cars are meant for endurance racing and TBH, i can't really see a 2.0 turbo with 500 bhp be reliable for 24 hours of torturing it to the max. So V6 maybe? Or I6, something along those lines.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Adding more cars into the GTR class would make it even more harder to balance. Increasing the number of cars in GTR class to six wouldn't really present anything new. Those cars really exist for multi-class racing and that aspect is 90% missing atm. And it is the biggest issue of that class atm imho. As close 2nd comes the lack of mid-engine GTR .

Imho, a new class over the current GTRs would make things more interesting. Firstly it would be totally new car class and secondly it would allow real multi class racing. Like if the current cars were the GT2 cars, the new cars would be the GT1. Just add the protos and the top of the line slick-tintops are almost done . (just add a stock car :tilt.

Naturally a class with no wings, lots of power and grippy no-slick tires, the super trackday-car class, would be teh killer for me after new tracks. Viper has some character so I'd like to see it in some form even if it isn't that good at track if compared to it's possible opponents, but then again, I already solved that in my previous post

I don't understand why it would be harder to balance more cars than less. The most cars in a class, the more likely you are to have a choice of a car being on pace. The higher the number of different cars that are competent to win points in a series of races, the less any one car can win thanks to the small population. That won't resolve the problem of most tracks favoring certain cars and disfavoring others, but on the whole it will even things out.

I think adding new cars will add something new - you get to have more variety at GTR races. I do agree there might be more novelty in a whole new class, but sooner or later it will be worth having one or more of the classes fleshed out.
Multi-class racing is fun, but honestly how often do you see that happening in LFS? What do you do with cars racing in another class in the same race? You aren't racing with them, so except for having some extra elements in the scenery, you might as well be racing in a separate event.
I admit I haven't had time to follow event races. I think more populated classes certainly would make the public races more fun and attract more players to the game.

I agree with everything else.

Quote from Primoz :

I'm also for a new GTR class over them (FZR Turbo being one for example, like the Alzen Porsche), with prototypes over that.

But i'd also change the engines in the current XRR/FXR. These cars are meant for endurance racing and TBH, i can't really see a 2.0 turbo with 500 bhp be reliable for 24 hours of torturing it to the max. So V6 maybe? Or I6, something along those lines.

It's just a game.. it might be hard to make and race such engines in reality, but somehow it doesn't seem right to break the continuation between the original road model and its racing trim in LFS.

There are a few leagues running multi class, namely MoE and LFS GT and some others too. What do you do with slower cars? You lap them. And watch out for them since they can ruin your race. Or you theirs. Same as in Le Mans and stuff. But it would probably be nice to raise the max number of cars on the road to ~40+ to 50.