I kind of determined ages ago that people with cars tended to be more cranky (and smoked more?!) than people without cars. It never seems a pleasurable thing in the city, I've always prefered hopping on a tram/train/bus and letting someone else do all the driving. I have enjoyed the occasional drive along a windy coastal road though.

Anyway, you'll save buckets of cash, won't have to worry about parking, won't have to worry about your car getting banged into or stolen, won't have to clean it, fix it, pour petrol into it, or pay taxes on it. Yeah! Welcome to the club! :drink:

Quote from Electrik Kar :

I've always prefered hopping on a tram/train/bus and letting someone else do all the driving.

It also gives you time to do something else, like read a book.

Kev... you're not allowed to do that on a bus.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Kev... you're not allowed to do that on a bus.

you are allowed.

its more a case of if you do you will be laughed at, not be able to read it in peace, Likely to have it stolen or damaged.. etc

I must admit the thought of using the buss is the least appealing aspect. Taxi's and trains I understand, busses operate without logic.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Aren't exhaust fumes carbonmonoxide not carbondioxide?

Well, gasoline is basically a mixture of hydrocarbons (molecules consisting of carbon and hydrogen). Combustion (combination with oxygen) of a simple hydrocarbon (an alkane; e.g. - octane) results in the products: carbon dioxide and water.

2 C8H18 + 25 O2 -> 16 CO2 + 18 H20

However, there are impurities in the gasoline (including nitrogen - presumably, because petroleum is of biological origin), and the combustion also tends to be "incomplete" (I don't really know the details; it may pertain to the combustion of complex hydrocarbons [alkenes and alkynes, having double and triple carbon-to-carbon bonds, respectively, and accordingly, less hydrogen]), so that nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide are also produced and emitted in automobile exhaust. Moreover, these tend to be noteworthy, since being "pollutants," whereas the CO2 and H20 are not generally regarded as such.

In short form, carbon dioxide is the expected (and presumably, greater) product, but some carbon monoxide occurs, also.

The main reason for adding oxidizers (such as MTBE) to gasoline, is - according to my understanding - to produce more "complete" combustion and thus, presumably, less carbon monoxide (at least) pollution. Also, as mentioned, catalytic converters result in some chemical reactions that reduce various incidental pollutants.

I will also mention that carbon monoxide (CO) is dangerous, because it binds much more readily to hemoglobin (the iron-containing compound in red blood cells), than O2 does. This results in an unavailability of hemoglobin, to do its necessary job of carrying O2 and supplying it to the cells of the body. CO2 is, as far as I know, not significantly dangerous to the human body, as long as it is not in very high concentration, in which case it would tend to acidify the blood plasma (since producing carbonic acid [H2CO3], when dissolved in water), which can produce a variety of ill effects.

With writing reams of data, your understanding is the same as mine, including the hemoglobin part (one of my pub-quiz special facts; never been used yet though!)

Becky:
Watch out for muggers on the busses.
Watch out for crooked taxi drivers.
Watch out for those idiots in cars when you are riding a bike.

That about covers that.

About the green thingy.
How much CO2 do the forests of the world produce during the night?

Purely on CO2 (AARGH! AARGH! CO2 is murder!) grounds the best thing for this planet would be to cover it in asphalt and concrete. Both of these materials absorbe vast quantities of CO2.

Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbondioxide. Herbivores produce vast amounts of methane. So kill a herbivore and you save the planet?

Besides what's the absolute worst that can happen with global warming? Some species go extinct. Maybe even homo sapiens (No such luck I fear). Boo hoo. That would be nothing new to this planet.
Some reading on wiki about mass extinctions.

Quote from March Hare :

Becky:
Watch out for those idiots in cars when you are riding a bike.

And if I may make a modest suggestion:

USE LIGHTS (big, bright ones) when riding your bicycle at night, and wear light colored, or otherwise reflective, clothing!!!

In my neighborhood, it is popular for bike riders to ride in the middle of the lane, wearing dark clothing and using no reflectors and a teeny little headlight, powered by a generator that is driven by the rotating wheel, and thus blinks dimly when moving, and pretty much goes out when stopped. This is a very effective system for simulating a distant firefly, and thereby annoying automobile drivers who would prefer notification of other humans occupying the road.

Quote from March Hare :

About the green thingy.
How much CO2 do the forests of the world produce during the night?

Purely on CO2 (AARGH! AARGH! CO2 is murder!) grounds the best thing for this planet would be to cover it in asphalt and concrete. Both of these materials absorbe vast quantities of CO2.

Well...

Quote :

There was a badly-reported story on this in the press a little while ago, and unfortunately this myth was the result. All normal plants, in the process of photosynthesis, take up carbon dioxide by day and release oxygen. This switches over in the dark, and they then produce carbon dioxide through respiration in the same way as animals. While they are growing, they take up more carbon dioxide overall than they give out, which gets turned into plant tissues (especially cellulose and, in the case of trees, lignin).

When a plant reaches full size, the difference between the carbon it takes up by day and emits by night drops. Trees still take up more carbon than they give off, because they continually produce leaves, repair tissues, increase their root network and add to their trunks. A lot of this carbon ends up back in the air though – when leaves and branches fall and rot, the carbon is simply released again. The forest as a whole can be approximately in balance, or can even lose carbon due to other processes (which is where the bad science reporting comes in).

There may be some occasions when a tree raises its respiration rate above photosynthesis – this might occur when producing lots of flowers or leaves, fighting a pathogen or creating chemical defences. This will, however, only be a short-term effect. Also, many deciduous trees in Europe rot in the middle of their trunk – you may see some old British oaks like this. It’s usually not harmful to the tree, but it does mean that they ‘give off’ carbon dioxide, albeit not because the tree intends to! When the tree is dying the same will happen.

***

Quote :

Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbondioxide. Herbivores produce vast amounts of methane. So kill a herbivore and you save the planet?

This is one of the reasons that those who are very into the cause of global warming tend to be vegetarian or at least try to limit their purchases of mass-produced meat.

Quote from March Hare :

About the green thingy.
How much CO2 do the forests of the world produce during the night?

None, as far as I know (edit: this is not quite correct; see my next post, below). Green plants absorb CO2 (and turn it into sugar), and emit oxygen (young plants do this more than older ones).

Quote from March Hare :

the best thing for this planet would be to cover it in asphalt and concrete. Both of these materials absorbe vast quantities of CO2.

I was unaware of any such thing. What then happens to the absorbed CO2?

Quote from March Hare :

Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbondioxide. Herbivores produce vast amounts of methane. So kill a herbivore and you save the planet?

Also, water vapor is, by far, the most significant greenhouse gas. Additionally, I think that termites produce a lot of methane.

Quote from March Hare :

Besides what's the absolute worst that can happen with global warming?

Al Gore becomes even more smug (or maybe blows up, or something).

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

they then produce carbon dioxide through respiration in the same way as animals

Ah, you're right. I neglected to consider that they do consume their own sugar, as food. Thanks for the correction.

Quote from March Hare :

About the green thingy.
How much CO2 do the forests of the world produce during the night?

Around the same as they consume during the day. What is your point?

shut up with this stupid discussion already! I really can't hear it anymore! Winters are less snowy, we've got quite nice hailstorms going on a few times every year, summers are stupidly hot for a too long time. fact. I don't f***ing care who's fault it is and who throws arguments at the other guy, just to be the last one to tell ridiculously sad facts that have nothing to do with anything. You're pissing me off with your half knowledge and arguments based on lies and wrong conspiracy theories, sorry.

Phew...calm down, think about what you wanted to write....

I quite like the fact you're "going green", Becky. So when are you planning to marry Jackg? :-)
I sold (rolled) my car about 5 years ago, since then I had to move twice and bought two bicycles. I hate public transport, so I always had the choice either to walk or take the bike.


This is the one I use for driving to uni each day, during summertime with slicks, nobbly tyres and fenders for winter time.


This is "Bolle", made for rougher grounds. Usually I take this one for tours with my girlfriend. Pretty handy here, near the alps.

I really love riding bikes. Though being somewhat exhausted after a trip I feel a bit better (once the pain has gone :-)), and if I'm stressed by the idiots at work/uni/whatever, I just kick the frustration away. This way I can go a bit faster, I can't get fined and the hormons calm down a bit. around the outer city rings I'm a bit slower than the cars, the nearer I get to the center, the faster I can go. Sure you always have to be very careful concerning cars, buses and pedestrians, but at least I don't have the smell and humidity in public transport, I don't have to sit in a hot car when it's warm outside, I don't have to care about fuel prices, ice on the windows, .................
Lowest temperature I hop on the bike is -15°C though, if it drops below that I'd need to wear my salopettes, and those would be ruined by the chain ring.

So if you can get a decent bike, take a good saddle as well (important especially for a woman, hint:brooks b17) and scrap the moped, you might be faster than those pimply kids on their tuned plastic scooters in no time!

greetz

der butz

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Kev... you're not allowed to do that on a bus.

Quote from franky500 :

you are allowed.

I think it's against the law...

---
I'd never ever go back using public transport again. I'm not tied to time tables, I like driving and I really appreciate the fact that I can do just as I please. I can go as I want. I can be at work as early or late as I want, sleeping one minute late doesn't mean I just missed my transportation and being on the bus station 5 minutes too early doesn't get me soaking wet in case of rain.

I don't really care about the money. Owning and driving a car is not cheap but it's imho well worth it.

Not that I'd hate busses or anything like that.

Quote from March Hare :

Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbondioxide. Herbivores produce vast amounts of methane. So kill a herbivore and you save the planet?

That's one way of putting it. An equivalent statement: raise cattle and you ruin the planet.

I find it's not actually *being* on the bus that I hate, it's *waiting* for one.

To get into work by bus takes two buses and an hour and a half to do 6 miles. I could *walk* it in that time, and a good half of that time is stood by the side of the road, just waiting.

Buses don't exactly do me a lot of good. There's an hourly service to either of the main city's near here, and no busses to get about town. Infact I hate the busstation itself, for the type of people who think sitting around drinking cheap cider and acting like twats all night is cool.

I used to cycle everywhere, used to have a bit of a laugh with that. Its worth it just for the look on peoples faces when you go flying past their 50cc moped Has its moments, I remember overtaking a taxi at 45mph or so flying down this insane hill, and him "forgetting" to use the brakes coming up to the big roundabout at the bottom, flying around that at those sort of speeds isn't something I'd like to do without the buzz you get from it.

None of it matters though, I refuse to get on a bus again and my bike hasn't been used in 6 months.

Good effort, will be interesting to see how you get on.

Personally, I could live without a car, but I'd never choose to. Whilst here in the city I basically just walk the 5 mins into uni or down to the pub so defo don't need a car. In fact had it here last term and used it about 3 times.

But at home living in the country you need a car to get anything done. Bikes are fine and good fun sometimes but tbh you have to be pretty dedicated to go a proper distance, short distances are quicker just to walk once you've got the bike out, locked up, ridden, parked up, locked the bike up etc.

Buses are crap, too much waiting, too full, too slow.

Trains are FAR too expensive, they wonder why people never use them. Paid £9 to go about 20 miles the other day as I didn't have the car with me. That's gone up from £7.80 before christmas. And they're usually 3 carriages too short and thus full.

Trains around here are decent (something like £1.70 to get to the nearest large town), but getting to the station is a problem - theres something like one bus a week that comes through here!

Quote from BigPeBe :

Nah being green, something what I'm not never gonna try out, at least when it comes to cars. I have started to feel angry when I read headlines like "going green". It is just that nowadays you can't be in this world without getting your eyes to some hippie talk. Almost every single newspaper haves some article about being green and how we are the cause of climate change with our CO2 pollution.
I'm pretty sure that CO2 isn't even the fooking reason for earth getting warmer, there's no real evidence, politicians just use this pseudo-science to get more votes and taxes.

Earth is not even warm yet, judging by how it has been even before human started polluting.

I understand that we pollute yes, but did you know that ~70% of CO2 is caused by nature?

no offense but do you have any idea of what you are talking about?

Great! I'm a daily bike rider (4000km in 4 years and counting)!

unlike hybrids that are just crap says Phill Edmonston:

Quote from Phill Edmonston :

(http://www.lemonaidcars.com/updates.html#hybrid)
Hybrid Hype
We don’t recommend electric and gasoline engine hybrids because their fuel economy can be 40 percent worse than the automakers report, their long-term reliability is unknown, battery replacement cost is estimated to run as high as $8,000 (U.S.), expensive electric motors are predicted to have a higfh failure rate from corrosion, their retail prices are incredibly high, and the potential resale value is no better than similar vehicles equipped with a conventional engine. For example, a 2001 Prius that originally sold for $29,990 is now valued at a disappointing $12,000 (and we’re only two years away from the expiration of that $8,000 battery warranty). Compare that to the price of a fully-equipped 2001 Camry CE V6, that sells for about $1,000 more--with no battery worries.

I'm not against saving the enviroment, but it seems like the automakers want to make money more than save the enviroment. GM EV1 4ever :P

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

it seems like the automakers want to make money more than save the enviroment.

Ding ding ding ding ding! Winner!!!!

Remember this: the #1 priority of ANY business is to MAKE MONEY. Everything else is not important, and they will exploit all the current fads so people will buy their products.

PS. That's right, I said FAD.

Cabs are the way to go. After all, it costs me exactly 1 gallon of fuel at currently $3.99 per gallon to drive my 20 mile trip to work. When I was in Detroit for training, we took a cab from the motel to the hockey arena for a game. 9 miles cost $30.

Hmm, a bicycle.... I travel 60-70 mph and it take me 25 minutes. I get up at 5:30 and leave at 6 am so I can be at work by 6:30.

Now, with my bike (cheapie mountain bike) and all the hills, I would probably average around 15 mph. There are some very long hills. So, that would take me around an hour and 20 minutes, thus getting me up at around 4:30 am. I can tell you, that definitely isn't happening.

Add to all the time the fact that I would be riding on a major travel road with cars doing 70+ mph on average in the dark......

I'll keep my car.

Is the Earth's climate changing? Probably, the evidence points in that direction.

Is the change due to human activity? There is evidence to suggest as much.

Can we actually reverse the changes? No one knows.

Does any of this matter? No.

Why? Because, while the finer points of the argument are scientifically interesting, social change is desirable simply because it will make our quality of life better. If you think that sitting in traffic jams, because the breeding class think that the school bus isn't good enough for junior, is a great way to spend time, then carry on as you are.

If you think that working nine to five, six days a week towards heart disease and irritable bowel syndrome is not a miserable waste of your time on this planet, then no change is necessary.

If you think that the new Ford Mondeo, wider than before, heavier than before, is an exemplary design path to follow, then ... Do you see where I'm going with this?