Perfect example (at shank's video).
Do you have something personal against me or Shank, I'm asking because you act like you do?
All in all, it wasn't THAT bad, but it still wasn't good... The cautions were the only thing that really pissed me off. I got wrecked repeatedly under caution.
The "NO CHAT" thing was a little much as well. I mean, we couldn't even say if we were screwed over without being screwed over.
The "NO CHAT" thing was a little much as well. I mean, we couldn't even say if we were screwed over without being screwed over.
No, Not pointed towards you, More towards people who got got passed me on restart lap 29! I stayed at speed untill green then passed before line. 
Oh, then we're not talking about the same thing.
Well, SC periods were boring on front of the grid and made me really off the pace in first laps of restart, hehe
No chat thing is great if you ask me.
Also, Shank, the video proves that that could have happened if you guys were anywere close to the others, from what I remember after you guys jumped on the 'Pits now open' bind you were far from others and could have let go of the throttle and let people be at the same speed.
I'll just stop but in no way should passing before S/F line but this time I think it's really the 'pits now open' bind that mixed everything up.
@ niki : Holy crap it's horrible being behind you on pace laps lol. Accelerate, slow down, accelerate, slow down, accelerate, slow down. :P
Anyways I'm happy bout my qual position and how I did before losing connection. So my driving was good enough for me sucks bout my connection but it seems like it wont let me drive with this many ppl.
I'll just stop but in no way should passing before S/F line but this time I think it's really the 'pits now open' bind that mixed everything up.
@ niki : Holy crap it's horrible being behind you on pace laps lol. Accelerate, slow down, accelerate, slow down, accelerate, slow down. :P
Anyways I'm happy bout my qual position and how I did before losing connection. So my driving was good enough for me sucks bout my connection but it seems like it wont let me drive with this many ppl.
It was Ken and I who touched after the funky restart. Once I saw the green I thought it was a green flag but that came 2 seconds later. Pumped the brakes but then realized I should just floor it because I will most likely be run over by the "I-have-no-brakes" drivers.
Ken, I thought I had you cleared and gave you enough room to go side by side in T1. I don't know if you had anybody on your left though. I will have to check the replay again.
Cautions:
Well, some people need to learn to use their brakes. Once I got into the top 10, it was a lot better but out of the top 10, my rear bumper was hit a couple of times. I started driving with both feet at that point and out of the line. I was able to keep to 80 km/h most of the time but at the start the leaders accelerated and then dropped back to 80 km/h. I think that's what caused most of the passing before the S/F line.
Ken, I thought I had you cleared and gave you enough room to go side by side in T1. I don't know if you had anybody on your left though. I will have to check the replay again.
Cautions:
Well, some people need to learn to use their brakes. Once I got into the top 10, it was a lot better but out of the top 10, my rear bumper was hit a couple of times. I started driving with both feet at that point and out of the line. I was able to keep to 80 km/h most of the time but at the start the leaders accelerated and then dropped back to 80 km/h. I think that's what caused most of the passing before the S/F line.
I watched that just now, and tbh, that was more your fault for being passed. You saw a SLOW car and decided to stand on the brakes, while you did that (30mph less than others) 2 people passed you. IMO you shouldn't have to slow down 30mph for a car off the pace.
I have to change my opinion on this one.
I just counted and we had 5 SC periods, that's like maximal that is normal
Maybe I had feeling that it's too much because race was shorted.
No Passing Before Line........
The ppl are just too stupid too brake, and crash then in the sc lines. PPL LEARN TO DRIVE UNDER SC. Otherwise it was great racing. finally got the xrt under control
There was GREEN FLAG massage on top of the screen left, and I'm 100% sure that I sow it, not Pits now open!
hehehe, my leg kinda started to hurt after so long in one position so i had to do something about it :P
I did press the pit lane open bind about half a second before the green flag button. But half a second isn't the kind of time that causes a wreck like we saw.
Why are so gung-ho about penalizing people for something that, in the grand scheme of things, was your fault, and doesn't really matter..
The way you are talking, you expect that if the leader were to just stop, the rest of the field would have to stop...
Becuase it wasnt my fualt, and it clearly states it in the rules.
Well, it wasn't theirs...
It made some gas then brake (noticing it doesn't say green) then see the green and go again, this makes some people slower and in that case you would have to dodge the cars so you don't cause an accident (braking would of just caused and huge wreck in the back).
It was your fault, there was no reason to slow down as much as you did, IMO if you are 10mph or more off everyone else's speed as the green comes out I would pass you too, because braking would just cause another crash.
It's not Greg's fault for following what the rules clearly state.
Rules say that you may not pass before the S/F line under any circumstances. Not you may not pass before the S/F line unless people are going really slowly.
Maybe the rules should be revised but if he did stay behind the car in front he didn't do anything bad.
@ PMD : Like I said I don't think it's his fault but the rules should maybe say something about that. All he did was follow the rules. You can't really blame him for it...
Rules say that you may not pass before the S/F line under any circumstances. Not you may not pass before the S/F line unless people are going really slowly.
Maybe the rules should be revised but if he did stay behind the car in front he didn't do anything bad.
@ PMD : Like I said I don't think it's his fault but the rules should maybe say something about that. All he did was follow the rules. You can't really blame him for it...
Well then the rules need an update in that department because those rules are just asking for wrecks on the restarts. What Greg did IMO was very foolish, the car in front was clearly off the pace and Greg just stood on the brake pedal. If you don't expect to be passed after standing on the brake pedal when you should be on the throttle then, well, you are not thinking too much.
Here's the replay for those who don't have it.
http://files.filefront.com/SRC ... /;10656572;/fileinfo.html
http://files.filefront.com/SRC ... /;10656572;/fileinfo.html
Not thinking...No i was thinking "let me follow the rules". Although I guess thats not right, I should follow what "I THINK the rules SHOULD be" (even though they are not the rules.)
Cant please LFS'ers either way.
So if a car spins before he gets to the line would you wait for him to recover and pass the line? From what you are saying if you didn't wait you would get a penalty. In other words, the rules need to be updated for restarts.
as i have experienced a lot of this in my first 2 seasons of lfscar 360° cup with the GTR cars i can give you only one good advice for the series:
do not play around with penalties: everyone who is crashing under caution needs to be disqualified for the rest of the season. everyone who was passing under yellow and did not give back the places needs to be disqualified for the race. end of story. any other wrecking needs to be resulted in a disqualification of the race and if someone is doing it more then 2 times in a race, disqualify him from the series. (one time can be an accident - needs to be reviewed, two times is a bad driver - maybe needs to be kicked out, more times: wrecker - get rid of him.) and one more thing: do not make the same error as i did and let people compete in the series who were actually bad but were friends or relatives. even if its your father, grandpa or cousin or your best friend driving and he is a wrecker or does not understand the simple rules of oval racing, kick him out.
Its a league not a driving school!
its pretty simple, i needed 2 seasons to learn this lesson and this is the only way to go - at least at the beginning.
if the race was that awful, reward some points for the clean drivers and re-do it with the rule enforcements i've just discribed.
if you are not hard on this, i can assure this will happen:
all clean and safe drivers will pull out of the series because they are fed up with stupid noobs crashing during cautions. and you will either end up with an unfinished season due to lack of drivers or with a total mess every race.
be hard on the penalties and disqualify wreckers as soon as possible from the series!
if you are willing to do so, you will be rewarded with better races and better drivers for sure as people see you are taking it serious.
maybe you cancel the result of this race, reward some points for all clean drivers and get out all wreckers. then redo this race.
maybe we can also talk on rules in the series, as real world rules are not always practical in LFS (mainly caution and restart rules)
its practically not possible in lfs to have clean races when you allow passing only after the finish line when doing restarts. i changed rules in the 360 cup to the simple rule: the track is free as soon as the green flag comes out.
this will help you in preventing the cars from concertinas and brake-checking. the leader does not have that much power this way but driving as a whole is much safer.
when is the next race? i might help you with administration.
do not play around with penalties: everyone who is crashing under caution needs to be disqualified for the rest of the season. everyone who was passing under yellow and did not give back the places needs to be disqualified for the race. end of story. any other wrecking needs to be resulted in a disqualification of the race and if someone is doing it more then 2 times in a race, disqualify him from the series. (one time can be an accident - needs to be reviewed, two times is a bad driver - maybe needs to be kicked out, more times: wrecker - get rid of him.) and one more thing: do not make the same error as i did and let people compete in the series who were actually bad but were friends or relatives. even if its your father, grandpa or cousin or your best friend driving and he is a wrecker or does not understand the simple rules of oval racing, kick him out.
Its a league not a driving school!
its pretty simple, i needed 2 seasons to learn this lesson and this is the only way to go - at least at the beginning.
if the race was that awful, reward some points for the clean drivers and re-do it with the rule enforcements i've just discribed.
if you are not hard on this, i can assure this will happen:
all clean and safe drivers will pull out of the series because they are fed up with stupid noobs crashing during cautions. and you will either end up with an unfinished season due to lack of drivers or with a total mess every race.
be hard on the penalties and disqualify wreckers as soon as possible from the series!
if you are willing to do so, you will be rewarded with better races and better drivers for sure as people see you are taking it serious.
maybe you cancel the result of this race, reward some points for all clean drivers and get out all wreckers. then redo this race.
maybe we can also talk on rules in the series, as real world rules are not always practical in LFS (mainly caution and restart rules)
its practically not possible in lfs to have clean races when you allow passing only after the finish line when doing restarts. i changed rules in the 360 cup to the simple rule: the track is free as soon as the green flag comes out.
this will help you in preventing the cars from concertinas and brake-checking. the leader does not have that much power this way but driving as a whole is much safer.
when is the next race? i might help you with administration.
Ill say this a spin is differnt then slowing down. Slowing down needs to be done a spin keep going. And ill be the first to say i may not be the fastest driver but i am sure as hell clean.
at the moment you are losing control of your car (spinning, going of track, whatever) you lose all rights of way on the track and at that point you are free to be passed even under caution. its up to the race marshalls to let you retake your position or not but most of the time you end up at that spot where you picked up enough speed to not being passed by the car behind you.
Post Race 2 Discussion
(94 posts, started )
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