Quote from AndroidXP :

So I guess you're living very offroad or in a snowy area, because better handling in these environments are pretty much the only benefits you have from a 4WD car.

Meh, I know someone who chose 4WD in his new Audi TT and the closest he gets to any slippy conditions is his multi-storey car park at work.

Some people are just stupid like that though, they see "AWD" as a status thing, not a functional thing.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Obviously there's a lot more to mileage than JUST the drivetrain.

You don't say.

Quote from AndroidXP :

So I guess you're living very offroad or in a snowy area, because better handling in these environments are pretty much the only benefits you have from a 4WD car.

Well, New Jersey does get a lot of snow and ice, so yes - that's the main reason I like AWD here.

However other benefits abound, such as how when I went camping last weekend, I got the car to the campsite that was impassable by any 2WD car because of the nature of the muddy, hilly terrain. You also benefit from much more sure-footed handling in wet conditions AND even in dry conditions. You simply cannot power out of a diminishing radius curve off the freeway with a RWD car as confidently or safely as you can in an AWD car.

That's not to say that AWD means you can drive like a nut, but the limits of the vehicle are slightly higher in certain situations, which makes a difference in wet conditions. There's a REASON many supercars are now AWD.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

You simply cannot power out of a diminishing radius curve off the freeway with a RWD car as confidently or safely as you can in an AWD car.

Only because you are guaranteed understeer rather than oversteer. A safer, if slower condition.

Quote :

There's a REASON many supercars are now AWD.

Marketing mostly. Make their 'supercars' idiot proof and they sell more. Doesn't make them better cars, just easier for lead-footed dopes to drive.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Only because you are guaranteed understeer rather than oversteer. A safer, if slower condition.
Marketing mostly. Make their 'supercars' idiot proof and they sell more. Doesn't make them better cars, just easier for lead-footed dopes to drive.

Well, with a PROPER AWD car (e.g. Nissan GT-R which is always RWD when you want it to be) you can do just as much and then MORE than you can with a purely RWD car. Almost all AWD cars nowadays do not do what the GT-R does that well, but I think that in a few years, AWD will really be RWD when you want it and AWD when you need it, in which case I can't see why you wouldn't get it.

Are people really so stupid that this is not bleedingly obvious to them?

Supercars are often AWD because road tyres often wont like the idea of 500 HP per wheel, and because you don't have to own a racing license to drive one...

See, as I said, snowy and offroad (muddy)

Slightly better traction in rain is true (or rather, harder to lose control in a tricky to handle fashion), but people greatly overestimate what 4WD can do and what not. From what I've heard it isn't too uncommon to see soccer moms (and similarly incapable drivers) causing accidents in the rain because they thought their 4WD car had super grip everywhere. The point with supercars is moot, too, since on a public road you should never drive on the limit of grip to begin with.

But whatever, the main reason this is still discussed is because some 4WD owners come in proudly proclaiming how good or above average their MPG rating is without realising it would be even better with a 2WD drive train.


E: Geez, that what happens when you leave the post window open and do work in the meanwhile

Makes me really glad to have my little Swifty...40+mpg until I think about going over 4k rpm...then it drops drastically Problem is, I have a VERY heavy right boot )

(Next step...must learn to drive it at somewhere under full throttle )

Quote from pb32000 :

Dude that's an even worse clarification :P The Escort never came with a 2L engine (CVH or Zetec) as standard. The Cosworth YB engine was developed from the orginal Pinto, which never appeared in Escorts - always being used for RWD setups.

But yer AWD is less effecient then 2WD.

yeah, strange that. they go back to an older model of engine to get more power and im sure there was a 2.0 CVH model. zetecs werent even designed back then me loves pintos.

Quote from AndroidXP :

From what I've heard it isn't too uncommon to see soccer moms (and similarly incapable drivers) causing accidents in the rain because they thought their 4WD car had super grip everywhere.

That is absolutely true. Here (NJ at least) the majority of cars that you see that slid off the road on the highway are usually 4/AWD SUVs for that very reason.

4/AWD will get you GOING in bad weather, and it will help you go where you want to SOME extent, but a car going 80 mph on an icy/snowy road is a car going 80 mph on an icy/snowy road regardless. That's what people don't realize. AWD will do NOTHING if you need to brake hard, nor will it do anything if you don't power out of a slide - and the majority of the people stupid enough to not know that are the ones who tend to close their eyes and slam on the brakes.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

That is absolutely true. Here (NJ at least) the majority of cars that you see that slid off the road on the highway are usually 4/AWD SUVs for that very reason.

4/AWD will get you GOING in bad weather, and it will help you go where you want to SOME extent, but a car going 80 mph on an icy/snowy road is a car going 80 mph on an icy/snowy road regardless. That's what people don't realize. AWD will do NOTHING if you need to brake hard, nor will it do anything if you don't power out of a slide - and the majority of the people stupid enough to not know that are the ones who tend to close their eyes and slam on the brakes.

Agreed. You might be able to get up to speed quicker, but in the snow, everything stops the same........by using your bumper

Quote from jayhawk :

So why do I get 30 MPG combined city and highway in my WRX?

Specifications:

1450 kilos.
2.5 litre engine.
230 horsepower.

I guess I should have stated that this was a rhetorical question; the reason I get such high mileage is because, unlike 90% of the ****-tards on the road, I KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A VEHICLE EFFICIENTLY!!

I feel better now!

250 kilos
0.5 litre engine
55 horsepower
50 mpg (60 mpg, UK)

I don't operate it efficiently, I rev the piss out of it any chance I get and still get 50 mpg.

Quote from The Radness :

Agreed. You might be able to get up to speed quicker, but in the snow, everything stops the same........by using your bumper

False. The reason is, because most people over here are in automatics and have AWD. With a manual and true locked in 4WD, it will help you in snow and ice if you have a bit of common sense.

A manual transmission and 4WD will brake the same as any other car when you brake in the snow like a moron. But engage the brain and due to the small increased in traction and the fact that your drivetrain has a mechanical connection to the engine over a fluid connection like in an automatic, and the clutch system will help to keep your wheels from locking up.

But of course, there needs also to be a connection between your braking foot and your brain too. A manual trans, true 4WD, and a brain will always outbrake an automatic and/or 2WD regardless of brain or no brain.

except that on snow locking the wheels is the best way to make the car stop quickly

Quote from mrodgers :

False.

No, actually, what you said does not make his statement false. You are simply stating that the statement is true if only applied to automatics... which in America means 99% of the vehicles we are talking about.