While I can see your point, what does "complete" mean? If the devs released Y23 tomorrow and called it "complete", would you be happy? Were you promised anything other than what you have right now?
While I can see your point, what does "complete" mean? If the devs released Y23 tomorrow and called it "complete", would you be happy? Were you promised anything other than what you have right now?
Like I replied to Ian, you didn't pay for a product with any guaranty that they will get to a certain level. There was no line in the agreement saying S2 will consist of X - and there is definitely no lines saying any deadline. I bought S2 a year ago, as I said before for a tiny fee I feel when I see the enjoyment I have had including both single player and multi-player, and didn't expect anymore development. Sure it was happening and I was aware that it would happen, but I have never once expected anything of the developers. I appreciate every little bit they have done, including language additions and such.
?
??!?
Not to disagree with you in general, but what are you smoking? I have yet to see the devs parade around and announce features that they don't deliver (let's not talk about the endlessly postponed GTR interiors now, please, we all know), nor have I seen any screenshots with said detachable body parts. You sure you aren't confusing this with some other game? I mean, maybe I have missed the things you talk about - if so, please post some quotes and the screenshots, I'd be very interested to hear about that.
The development is slow. Too slow.
I agree on Ian's thoughts about the development priorities being a bit upside down, but I don't agree that LFS has been too costly or that I would feel ripped by the money it has cost me. Heck, I've been a HR skin buyer since they became available, and I think they are good enough value for my money as I enjoy the little extra eye-candy they can give me over the fugly 512x512 car skins from the Quake 1 days.
Having driven LFS for ~6 years now, mostly drifting sometimes racing, I still play LFS a few times a month. Sometimes I keep a few month break while playing either Forza 2 or GT5P, and then come back to play LFS for a couple of evenings. That said, other games will only "work" on refreshing my interest in LFS for so-and-so long. If this is still the point where we stand at development wise, let's say for an example, 2-3 years.. I will be quite disappointed and propably not too keen to play LFS monthly or much at all anymore. Still, knowing nothing else in the near-future will beat LFS in physics and FFB, it irritates me to know that LFS is all that I will have to drive on my PC and it will keep irritating me with it's lack of content. Being addicted on a driving sim sucks, huh.
What I do not quite understand is, what is it taking so much time to make extra content on the current build of LFS? As far as I can see, nothing is stopping Eric from making us more tracks and cars, as those do not require much coding (perhaps suspension hardpoints and small detail bits) from Scawen. Seeing how bloody long simple updated GTR interiors are taking to get done, I'm starting to question our artist developers motivation towards delivering us what we need. Would it be too much asked to hire another game artist to accommodate the needs of the community? Surely UK is filled with great game artist that would fit the criterias of LFS dev crew with no issues if that would be the case.
The thing that annoys me in the development, or the lack of it, is the huge potential of LFS. Nothing else feels as good to drive with an artificial wheel and pedals as LFS does. GT5P does come preee-tty close with it's good FFB, but it fails too hard in physics. That is why I am irritated at the lack of serious development. If you really think that the devs are working on something in the backround, don't you think they would have already let us know something? Surely they too must have noticed that the LFS userbase is starting to get tired at lack of new content.
PS. We drifters are still graving for that 45 degree steering lock, but I guess it's hopeless to ask for such a tiny tweak.
PPS. Dang, broke my promise again about not posting here. Oh well.
I agree on Ian's thoughts about the development priorities being a bit upside down, but I don't agree that LFS has been too costly or that I would feel ripped by the money it has cost me. Heck, I've been a HR skin buyer since they became available, and I think they are good enough value for my money as I enjoy the little extra eye-candy they can give me over the fugly 512x512 car skins from the Quake 1 days.
Having driven LFS for ~6 years now, mostly drifting sometimes racing, I still play LFS a few times a month. Sometimes I keep a few month break while playing either Forza 2 or GT5P, and then come back to play LFS for a couple of evenings. That said, other games will only "work" on refreshing my interest in LFS for so-and-so long. If this is still the point where we stand at development wise, let's say for an example, 2-3 years.. I will be quite disappointed and propably not too keen to play LFS monthly or much at all anymore. Still, knowing nothing else in the near-future will beat LFS in physics and FFB, it irritates me to know that LFS is all that I will have to drive on my PC and it will keep irritating me with it's lack of content. Being addicted on a driving sim sucks, huh.
What I do not quite understand is, what is it taking so much time to make extra content on the current build of LFS? As far as I can see, nothing is stopping Eric from making us more tracks and cars, as those do not require much coding (perhaps suspension hardpoints and small detail bits) from Scawen. Seeing how bloody long simple updated GTR interiors are taking to get done, I'm starting to question our artist developers motivation towards delivering us what we need. Would it be too much asked to hire another game artist to accommodate the needs of the community? Surely UK is filled with great game artist that would fit the criterias of LFS dev crew with no issues if that would be the case.
The thing that annoys me in the development, or the lack of it, is the huge potential of LFS. Nothing else feels as good to drive with an artificial wheel and pedals as LFS does. GT5P does come preee-tty close with it's good FFB, but it fails too hard in physics. That is why I am irritated at the lack of serious development. If you really think that the devs are working on something in the backround, don't you think they would have already let us know something? Surely they too must have noticed that the LFS userbase is starting to get tired at lack of new content.
PS. We drifters are still graving for that 45 degree steering lock, but I guess it's hopeless to ask for such a tiny tweak.
PPS. Dang, broke my promise again about not posting here. Oh well.
No, in fact I would be pretty pissed...because there are still a lot of features and content that has been talked about, some of which have even been seen in screenshots, and we have yet to see first hand...complete to me means the game includes all the features and content that has been talked about by the devs...I/we was/were not promised anything but we have been shown and told about 'things to come' for quite some time...
AndroidXP, I'm not smoking anything...they were in one of those 'easter egg' screen shots. I know I am not the only one who remembers it...it wasn't blatantly obvious but it was there in the background of the pic...if I remember correctly a wing had come off of an open wheeled car...
I guess my use of the word 'promised' was more of a 'this has been talked about a lot by the devs and they said it would be part of SX'...when you say stuff like that you kind of raise the bar and expectations of the community and when you see no result it is frustrating....
Can you give some examples? The only thing I can think of which we've been promised (or even hinted at getting) is the GTR interiors. I don't recall seeing any screenshots with breakable cars and I certainly don't recall Scawen ever making any indication that we would see anything like that in S2. I would love to be proven wrong.
What needs to be fixed for S2 to be "complete" to you?
See Scawen's post:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=705431#post705431
But I don't think he released any screenshots...
MODS: Close this pointless thread of bitching. For a moment I thought it was the NKP forum
People step away from the keyboard and chill
People step away from the keyboard and chill
Guess what, hardware drawing of sub objects was implemented in the last test patch.
E: Ah okay, you only wanted to show that Scawen confirmed that this is a step towards making wings fall off.
I laugh everytime I read one of Ian's posts. They are so condescending, but they always end in "regards, Ian".
Yes, and that means it will be possible to break off wings in a future incompatible patch, probably before S2 full.
The pictures you speak of do not exist, and never have existed in an official form. It may be that you fell for a photoshop of an offical screenshot, and have spent the last 2+ years being pwned. But LFS or it's test-team has never released any images of detachable parts.
no, I'm pretty sure that the image was hosted @ lfs.net. I wouldn't of brought it up if I was unsure about it...I remember there being a pretty lengthy thread about it too...do yourself a favor and stop being so smug about everything...
Please, could you provide more details? We don't have such picture and teaser at the official news archive at LFS.net, show us the thread you are talking about at RSC and we will beleive you.
I'm not going to spend hours digging though 2 forums to find 1 image...I just remember it was during the time that the first sneak peeks of the open wheeled cars were released by the LFS team. I'm not asking you to believe me...I just remember what I saw and what I read...
I do remember this picture a bit, and the conclusion was that the impression was due to some bug. The wing was underground or something like that...
I remember a discussion about something like this but I certainly don't remember any official screenshots and announcements about falling parts. But of course I could be wrong as everyone else.
There was certainly no announcement of falling parts, but the screenshot was official. They were just a bit rushed in the process of choosing screenshots so there was one that allowed some speculation by trigger happy speculators! I give them that it was back in the days were the devs were toying with us with some teasers...
ian really mate what friggin planet are you from??? 
ill begin by saying yes i would like more updates and i would like the bugs to patched once and for all, and if you asked the devs they would all say the same thing...
so then we ask the question why not???... are the devs creaming LFS??? well considering its a non monthly payment i wouldnt have thought so, but you seem to have CCTV in scawns office so please let us in on whats going on behind closed doors//..
next i wont to say you have got to be the most arrogant and selfish person i have had the misfortune to meet on these boards... and with that 2 faced please let me explain...
if you think by adding languages the devs have ripped you off, you need help.. i think that is extreamly selfish. and im sure that scawen himself would have rather spent that time on a new track or car, but in from a business point of view it was vital...
you keep using your job as a web designer / security tech, as an example??? that was my bussiness for some years also and you know as well as me this is a TOTALY different kettle of fish.
you have a customer come to you, tell you what they want, you outline find what there needs are and then you give them the product in a given time frame and at the quality you outlined, how the hell does that tie in with LFS and the way the devs and the gaming world works on the whole???, its not even close and you know it..
so if your the business man you say you are how come you find it so hard to understand the languages idea??? personly its the best thing the devs ever did from a business point of view..
you then start blabbing how YOU... CHOOSE... to open sorce all your work, im not knocking you for that i thinks its nice of you to do such a thing no matter how small the program, but so do a lot of other guys here in LFS and they aint crying wolf.... you knew you wasn't buying a FULL game so if the devs shut up shop tomorow who are we to complain??..
i have brought many things in my life that are a load of ball's, but it dont matter wich way you cut ya cloth i made the decision to buy, when i payed for LFS i looked at what LFS offered i made the decision to pay and LFS lived up to that, if the devs shut up shop the next day after i payed i carnt complain, the product was as described..
lets use your web-design scenario...
a customer hire's you to build a site they sell car's.... you complete the job you get paid.. 3 months latter they come knocking your door saying they now sell motorbikes and your site doesnt show this.... (actualy had this one) the customer paid for a site selling cars.. if they want bikes added they better cough up the dosh, you wouldnt be to pleased if they was spouting crap on your doorstep infront of the neighbours would ya???? so why do it here????
the cut and dry of it is, you brought product as described end off, in the TOC it say's jack about how many updates and in what time frame, yes you are allowed to have your opinion on the current state of LFS, but your comming over like you want ya money back or somthing, i have a loft filled with 40/50 quid games i played for 2 days and never fired up again i aint jumping all over E.A's forums spreading the crap, and thats the next point i have a pet hate for E.A one of the biggest and apart from the sports stuff they spew out crap after crap, these companies get ya in the net for 50 quid and dont give a tos after that, doesnt matter if crashes on lvl 4 they have ya money..
Again you knew full well what you was buying into, they aint got the manpower of the big guns and you knew that...
if when you came to LFS the was 1 car 1 track with packman like grafix but the site said "buy now and in a year this will look twice as good as gran turismo and have the physics of a F1 simulator" would you have punched your CC number in????? NO...... you knew it was in alpha/beta and you KNOW that 40% alpha/beta programs go bang (unless there backed by the big guns.. in witch case they sell you the shity end result anyway) so what have you got to moan about???
if i sell you my car and the engine is dead, i tell you the situation and say with all the best intentions "ill do my best to fit a new engine" do you buy it saying to yourself "he will fit a new engine" OR "i may be buying a car here without a engine.." if you would think the former you are a fool and im suprised you can afford a internet connection...
as regards development WE JUST DONT KNOW.. scawen could release a patch this week with 10 new tracks and 200 new cars (doubtfull granted) we just dont know... although you seem to have inside info on this i wish you would share!!...
last thing... if i here another comment like "progress has been slow since scawen had kids" my blood's gona boil.....
i lost my 2 year old daughter 5 weeks ago m8 and i dont care what you want.
yea yea its a "business" ive been there m8 but at the end of the day, money is just paper and bollox to the job/customer... if i could give scawen a bit of advice now it would be turn off the PC stuff LFS and take the misses and kids out...
If scawen drops this right now, he can do it again in 10 years, but there are some things you only get one chance at m8 and take it from me the missis and ya kids come before anything!!.. yea sorry to say even your 25 quid....
ill begin by saying yes i would like more updates and i would like the bugs to patched once and for all, and if you asked the devs they would all say the same thing...
so then we ask the question why not???... are the devs creaming LFS??? well considering its a non monthly payment i wouldnt have thought so, but you seem to have CCTV in scawns office so please let us in on whats going on behind closed doors//..
next i wont to say you have got to be the most arrogant and selfish person i have had the misfortune to meet on these boards... and with that 2 faced please let me explain...
if you think by adding languages the devs have ripped you off, you need help.. i think that is extreamly selfish. and im sure that scawen himself would have rather spent that time on a new track or car, but in from a business point of view it was vital...
you keep using your job as a web designer / security tech, as an example??? that was my bussiness for some years also and you know as well as me this is a TOTALY different kettle of fish.
you have a customer come to you, tell you what they want, you outline find what there needs are and then you give them the product in a given time frame and at the quality you outlined, how the hell does that tie in with LFS and the way the devs and the gaming world works on the whole???, its not even close and you know it..
so if your the business man you say you are how come you find it so hard to understand the languages idea??? personly its the best thing the devs ever did from a business point of view..
you then start blabbing how YOU... CHOOSE... to open sorce all your work, im not knocking you for that i thinks its nice of you to do such a thing no matter how small the program, but so do a lot of other guys here in LFS and they aint crying wolf.... you knew you wasn't buying a FULL game so if the devs shut up shop tomorow who are we to complain??..
i have brought many things in my life that are a load of ball's, but it dont matter wich way you cut ya cloth i made the decision to buy, when i payed for LFS i looked at what LFS offered i made the decision to pay and LFS lived up to that, if the devs shut up shop the next day after i payed i carnt complain, the product was as described..
lets use your web-design scenario...
a customer hire's you to build a site they sell car's.... you complete the job you get paid.. 3 months latter they come knocking your door saying they now sell motorbikes and your site doesnt show this.... (actualy had this one) the customer paid for a site selling cars.. if they want bikes added they better cough up the dosh, you wouldnt be to pleased if they was spouting crap on your doorstep infront of the neighbours would ya???? so why do it here????
the cut and dry of it is, you brought product as described end off, in the TOC it say's jack about how many updates and in what time frame, yes you are allowed to have your opinion on the current state of LFS, but your comming over like you want ya money back or somthing, i have a loft filled with 40/50 quid games i played for 2 days and never fired up again i aint jumping all over E.A's forums spreading the crap, and thats the next point i have a pet hate for E.A one of the biggest and apart from the sports stuff they spew out crap after crap, these companies get ya in the net for 50 quid and dont give a tos after that, doesnt matter if crashes on lvl 4 they have ya money..
Again you knew full well what you was buying into, they aint got the manpower of the big guns and you knew that...
if when you came to LFS the was 1 car 1 track with packman like grafix but the site said "buy now and in a year this will look twice as good as gran turismo and have the physics of a F1 simulator" would you have punched your CC number in????? NO...... you knew it was in alpha/beta and you KNOW that 40% alpha/beta programs go bang (unless there backed by the big guns.. in witch case they sell you the shity end result anyway) so what have you got to moan about???
if i sell you my car and the engine is dead, i tell you the situation and say with all the best intentions "ill do my best to fit a new engine" do you buy it saying to yourself "he will fit a new engine" OR "i may be buying a car here without a engine.." if you would think the former you are a fool and im suprised you can afford a internet connection...
as regards development WE JUST DONT KNOW.. scawen could release a patch this week with 10 new tracks and 200 new cars (doubtfull granted) we just dont know... although you seem to have inside info on this i wish you would share!!...
last thing... if i here another comment like "progress has been slow since scawen had kids" my blood's gona boil.....
i lost my 2 year old daughter 5 weeks ago m8 and i dont care what you want.
yea yea its a "business" ive been there m8 but at the end of the day, money is just paper and bollox to the job/customer... if i could give scawen a bit of advice now it would be turn off the PC stuff LFS and take the misses and kids out...
If scawen drops this right now, he can do it again in 10 years, but there are some things you only get one chance at m8 and take it from me the missis and ya kids come before anything!!.. yea sorry to say even your 25 quid....
I'm glad someone else knows what I am talking about so I don't seem like one of them crazies, haha
While that is quite possible, it's purely speculation. I certainly wouldn't count on getting parts that break off in S2. If we do, GREAT! But don't count those chickens before they hatch.
Other than the "flying into space" bug when hitting objects and the GTR interiors that we know, I don't really see any unfulfilled promised features.
There are a ton of things I would like to see added to LFS: more cars, more tracks, engine damage, better suspension damage, track surface temp, etc. But hoping to get something and expecting it to be delivered are two different things. Hell, I keep hoping that SimBin will come out with something that feels even remotely like driving a car, but I certainly don't expect it.
*enters thread*
Sorry I though this was a thread about HLVC invalidating a hotlap.
Didnt realize there was a war going on in here - sorry. Must've entered the wrong thread.
Ill be leaving now... quietly...
*runs out the door*
Sorry I though this was a thread about HLVC invalidating a hotlap.
Didnt realize there was a war going on in here - sorry. Must've entered the wrong thread.
Ill be leaving now... quietly...
*runs out the door*
Omg... priceless .
.I Believe it is about time to close this thread, It is no longer even remotely close to the original topic.
This thread is closed
Hotlap did not pass HLVC check
(99 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG