Imagine the 24 hour races, they would look awsome with the shadows slowly creeping up on you. I really like this idea. But like I said before, it's probably too early, I'd rather have the damage model sorted out first. The day will come when the graphics will be overhauled, and that's when this issue should be brought up.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

What about in longer races (S3?), when there is dynamic transition from day to night and back, the sun moves (well, rather the earth in relation, but you get the point), along the skyline, so a normal mapped track, would create realistic shadows. I can see what EK is saying, and I think it'd look frikking awesome, if put in right.

this is of course true but as i pointed out earlier the movement would be very slow and only barely noticeable as the highest inner texture elevation next to your car is probably the white line which is just a few mm higher than the tarmac and driving with the cockpit on the closest youll ever see that is a couple of metres in front of you

a huge shadow from a nearby skyscaper slowly moving across the track and seeing the shadows of cars around you get longer would make for a more interesting effect

Little details do count, just look at the Source engine, some of the little things, make some of it great.

Quote from Shotglass :

the problem i have with this is that lighting in lfs and racing games in general isnt dynamic at all ... there is 1 light source and it doesnt move at all over the course of a race
so what exactly is the point of adding normal mapping if you wont ever see any effect ?

In fact, the light source is moving in relation to you, so you will notice the effect of normal mapping, however, you will not care in 150MPH.

Quote from breadfan :

however, you will not care in 150MPH.

True, but I will care when I'm watching replays / making movies / taking screenshots.

While I totally agree with Scawen's famous 'this is not a screenshot generator' comment, I also think that anything that makes LFS look better is a good thing.

Sure, enhancements like this won't be on the top of the Dev's 'to do' list (nor should they be), but with texturing talent like Electrik Kar in the community, it would be good to know what is possible.

If we're getting weather and day/night transitions it is a must. Obviously you can't simply retexture the entire track every so often during a race (like would happen now with the switches between afternoon/evening etc) so bump-mapping and direction lightsourcing will have to be added if we want proper realism.

Even as a smaller thing, if we want proper projected headlights, these will add another light source to the textures, meaning that soft shadows generated by the sun will be overwritten by the closer, faster moving source created by the headlights.

That was a Dx8 feature, wasn't it? So presumably if your gfx card is Dx8 campatible it shouldn't alter your frame rate that much. In fact, if we did get the switch to hardware-controlled Dx features, frame rates might even increase due to the strain being moved from CPU to GPU.

I'm sure it's all planned out, more or less. It's just a case of waiting to see.

Quote :

the movement would be very slow and only barely noticeable as the highest inner texture elevation next to your car is probably the white line which is just a few mm higher than the tarmac and driving with the cockpit on the closest youll ever see that is a couple of metres in front of you

a huge shadow from a nearby skyscaper slowly moving across the track and seeing the shadows of cars around you get longer would make for a more interesting effect

I feel like I want to point out that, while some of the benefits of normal mapping may appear subtle, I'd wager that there would be other more visually obvious enhancements to the overall scene as well. Take changes in track elevation- a normal mapped road should look much more realistic and natural if the lighting is being calculated per pixel. One side of an incline could be in shadow, and as you reach the top of the crest (now the majority of normals are starting to point more towards the light source), the surface lightens. On the other side going back down, the lighting/shading is totally different from when you went up. It's these kinds of global changes that I'm really interested in, thinking about it a little more. Little drop shadows casting off things is fine, but I'd wager there are bigger fish being fried with this technique.

As a very rough example (needs work), here's a close up of the rallyx texture (normal and disp mapped) under two contrasting lighting conditions. edit: and a couple of roads under different lighting. First shot is mapped to a cylinder to show lighting on a curve.

edit: anyway, that's probably all I've really got to say about normal mapping for now..

Quote :

I'm sure it's all planned out, more or less. It's just a case of waiting to see.

Here's hoping

Your "very rough example" makes me sick with envy

Quote from bbman :

3D-looking textures

Yup, old bump "in some eyes". but it's taken me this long to get around to attempt it.





Just did it as an exeriment to see how it looked. It looked better than I expected TBH.

With Y patch and BL textures I applied these filters....



Photoshop:

• Duplicated Layer and desaturate it (removes colour)
  
• Applied Filter >> STYLIZE >> emboss
  
• --Angle -45° from horizontal-Right --> 0° ClockWise
  
• --3 pixels height
  
• --Amount 150%
  
• Layer Blending Mode (overlay) for the embossed layer
  
• Flatten Image
  
• Saved as DDS
  

Paint.Net

• Duplicated Layer
  
• Applied Effects >> STYLIZE >> emboss
  
• To new layer Applied 135° from horizontal-Right --> 0° ClockWise
  
• Layer Blending Mode (overlay) for the embossed layer
  
• Flatten Image
  
• Saved as DDS
  

Was quite easy to do (3 steps??) Have fun.

You did a good job. It might be quite helpful for those without imagination. However I'd still like to see it in motion and better yet, see some good normal-mapping applied to sand and grass, as the asphalt is relatively smooth compared to those two. Also the tires could use some of it too.

Thanks for your interest. Keep in mind it was just a 'test'. Also those screenshots were shrunk to save space on here.


I didn't make the grass/sand textures too 'deep' because a 3d texture too fake can look rather bad.

The only way I can describe driving it, is like a close up of a belt sander. You can still make out the little white rocks at speed.

Quote from JasonJ :

I didn't make the grass/sand textures too 'deep' because a 3d texture too fake can look rather bad.

i think it already does... especially the road almost looks like cobblestones
what youd have to do it bump the texture resolution up considerably

I agree, that was the default textures. One day I might give it ago with E-Kar's high res ones. Still... it was interesting for me.

Interesting effect

You can achieve something perhaps vaguely similar by using the lighting effects filter, using directional lighting, selecting a texture channel and adjusting the bumpiness at will. Directional lighting allows the light angle to stay constant throughout the whole image. I haven't tried using the emboss.

Here's a screengrab of the default BL road which I used the directional lighting effect on. It's not a good pic but it's the only one I have, those textures are on a CD somewhere and I can't be bothered looking for them right now. The effect is pretty subtle, but there is slightly more depth than in the original texture.

Yes, mine look bad... FAIL. Just stirring your creative juices Mr E-Kar.

I think i need a change of boxers after looking at some of these pictures !

JJ and E-Kar, those textures, to me, take the detail to a new level in LFS, congratulations !

Sarge.

Quote from Tweaker :

I'd like to see examples of it in LFS... like on a brick wall or something?

like on tires surface, dashboard textures, things that have a fine texture.

Quote from Tweaker :

I'd like to see examples of it in LFS... like on a brick wall or something?

Uh ok... But remember this is predrawn lighting, so it's never real or dynamic.

In full sun Bricks and White Painted concrete (bare concrete at lower isn't done)


In the shadows up close (worst scenario)