The online racing simulator
I have a Dream…
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(37 posts, started )
I have a Dream…
I have a dream… A vision of LFS… A vision that is different then what we have now… One in which the old feelings of unchecked adrenalin and pure passion were rampant and where driving was just a joy which I cannot express in words still exists. I want to see the passion brought back to LFS.

My vision of what LFS was to become and the developer’s vision of what LFS is to become diverged some time ago. While the changes and path of development have resulted in some interesting and innovative features I am still perplexed and a little sad/annoyed but the path which was led us to the point where we currently find ourselves. When I first discovered LFS, back in the days when all we had was a demo, featuring the XRG, XFG, XRT and Blackwood, it had a much different feeling then it does now. This feeling has nothing to do with the physics or the looks of LFS but has to do more with the design and content we had. Those three basic cars were perfectly matched to the track. Their performance and dynamics played very well to the layout which resulted in a cadence and pace that just made you forget you were sitting in front of your computer and instead made to feel as though you were in your real car at a local track competing door to door with your best buddies. It had this feeling of youthful innocence that has now been lost. Today, LFS feels less like I am running at a local track with friends and more like I am a struggling racing professional lost in the jungle of national level competition. I miss the old feeling.

I think this is in part due to the nature of the content we have been given over the S1 and S2 releases. The cars very quickly became very diverse and now extend to the very apex of open wheel racing. The new tracks are wide and open and surrounded with reminders of the level of racing we now compete in. Where once we had a track carved out of the land with few reminders of the commercial nature of racing, we now have track environments surrounded by bleachers, and filled with sponsor ads. The tracks are wide and open with sudden choke points that seem ill conceived. Few of the new tracks feel well suited to the cars we have to drive on them and their wide surfaces contribute to a dulling of the sense of speed so many in our community have been commenting on. When I watch racing videos there is often little room for passing, running three wide is almost impossible and if done the cars are nearly scraping paint. I think this has a lot to do with why many people are seeking faster and faster cars. It’s not because they want to drive faster it’s because they feel like they are driving so slow in the cars they have.

In my vision of the LFS we don’t have the FO8 and FB1, we don’t have the FZR, XRR and FXR. The pinnacle of open wheel cars is the FOX and the panicles for the tin tops are the UFR, XFR with perhaps a RWD and AWD rival. The faster cars should have been left for S3 along with the tracks in which they would feel at home. In my vision of LFS Aston would be a pair of smaller track venues each with no more than 3 variants of varying length, each presenting unique challenges and with a layout that flows smoothly from one turn to the next. Kyoto would be a short track oval which would require some braking in the corners and its attached road course would have to involve exiting under the banking through a tunnel or be completely detached from the oval as it would not fin in the infield. Westhill would be much like it is now but perhaps a little more compact, but not much. This would be the track which gave us a promise and taste of what the future would hold when faster cars are introduced in S3.

In my vision of LFS the level of racing is also based in a class structure which exists outside of the inherent class based on the performance of the cars. The level of competition would directly affect how much adjustability there is in car setup. At lower levels drivers are forced to use a predefined setup for each car while at higher levels of competition more settings are allowed to be adjusted as well as the number of adjustments available for each setting. As it stands now many settings are infinitely adjustable, when in reality things like gear ratios, springs rates, damper settings and sway bar stiffness selections are limited to a handful of available options. I think this is a problem and in my vision of LFS we are much more limited.

In the end we have what we have and LFS will continue to develop as the people running the show deem it should, but perhaps in the future the path of development may start to wander back towards how I hoped LFS would be when I first started dreaming towards the future of LFS back before it was no more than a demo. I hope I am not alone in the way I feel and that there are other out there that have those same fond feeling of what LFS was like in times past when the community was smaller, the choices were limited and the competition was close and fierce.


I guess you had to be there to understand... Oh well...
#2 - scipy
good thing no one who matters cares about ur vision. ur little whining rant is more about your shortcomings than the shortcomings of lfs. imo, you dont get to complain since you didnt finish 1 race in half a year. fierce competiton is still here, and i'm guessing that you are still not fierce enough for it.
Is this a school work you decided to make about LFS?

As for your claim. Well I wasn't there ''Back when'' but I certainly love the diversity that LFS brings. Instead of only bringing a kind of racing you can find at your local track it brings you the chance to try much faster cars which you probably can't afford in real life. The wider tracks are needed for some of these cars. The ads are a part of the racing world aswell.
Quote from Gimpster :In my vision of LFS the level of racing is also based in a class structure which exists outside of the inherent class based on the performance of the cars. The level of competition would directly affect how much adjustability there is in car setup. At lower levels drivers are forced to use a predefined setup for each car while at higher levels of competition more settings are allowed to be adjusted as well as the number of adjustments available for each setting. As it stands now many settings are infinitely adjustable, when in reality things like gear ratios, springs rates, damper settings and sway bar stiffness selections are limited to a handful of available options. I think this is a problem and in my vision of LFS we are much more limited.

It always bemuses me how hostile people can be to someone that sees things differently to the mainstream

I love the sound of your dream and I know several other older LFSers that would too. I'm not so sure that LFS will ever be that way as a whole, or if even it should be, but I'd sure love to see a more simulator oriented segment of the community enabled with server side options and perhaps insim apps to give them the experience they crave with like minded individuals. Drifters and criuses are being cattered for so I don't see any reasonable argument for why other segments shouldn't be catered for
If you don't like the fast cars or wide tracks then don't drive them.

Problem solved.
#6 - 5haz
If you dont like what he says then dont post here, problem solved.
If you don't like what I.....

(this could go on forever.. )
Quote from Gimpster :damn good post

Wow Gimpster I absolutely agree.. I talked about this with someone close to the community a little while ago.. I was trying to explain why I didn't play LFS as much as I did.. but I couldn't really find the right words. I think I'll just copy/paste your post because I agree with every single word.
@Gimpster
That's totaly false...
I LOVE FZR and love RB4 and when I change from a car to another I don't feel bored at all... It's just 2 different ways of racing...
And look a bit at the servers and you will see that the server that normally has more people is CTRA 1 with XFG and XRG
His opinion is false, how does that work?
When he says "people prefer faster car" that's not an opinion but and affirmation (is it the right word?)
I agree with your point about the sense of speed. Unfortunately that is about it
Sir moi 407, true...I guess you are correct in saying that...
#14 - Jakg
Quote from Gimpster : I think this has a lot to do with why many people are seeking faster and faster cars. It’s not because they want to drive faster it’s because they feel like they are driving so slow in the cars they have.

too true - i don't think the lack of G-Forces helps this at all (I often think "jesus this car is slow" when i'm actually doing a car at 70MPH because it just doesn't feel like it.

LFS simulates it what it can accurately - if it doesn't simulate something properly, it just won't do it, rather than faking it or going a quick hack to get things working - maybe this is why LFS development feels slow - maybe faking stuff might actually work?

I don't know why the entire community is obsessed with the faster cars - all the "pro leagues" (and I use that term loosley, esp. with a league that allows resets) use the Slick-Shod cars virtually exclusively...

</ot>
Quote from Michel 4AGE :Wow Gimpster I absolutely agree.. I talked about this with someone close to the community a little while ago.. I was trying to explain why I didn't play LFS as much as I did.. but I couldn't really find the right words. I think I'll just copy/paste your post because I agree with every single word.

And another one here...

Its just plain true that the new tracks and new cars provide a different feel of racing, but thats not bad either, and LFS needs this feeling also in S2, not just in S3. The only problem is, that the reason why people play LFS has changed.
The _real_ oldschoolers played LFS because its fun. Now, its more like a challenge. LFS is about winning, it has grown up and the fun has evelved to 'competition'. Most of the 'new' LFS players equal 'fun' and competition. But some people dont. Of course all racing is competition, but there are different facettes of 'competition'.
I would not call it 'evolve'. Its rather a sideways movement, with the result that different people like LFS in a different way.
The LFS racers of 2003 simply like to drive side by side through a corner, and pass each other like 10 times in a single turn
I remember amazing races with Cedje Dervo, Devil 007 and all the others most of you guys dont even know. This might sound a bit weird but driving LFS used to be more like dancing than wrestling.

Blackwood is not really as much fun as in 2003 (in the slow cars that is), but we still have tracks like fern bay club or rallyx, the slow aston tracks and south city.
For example, I drove almost no laps in Westhill, because Im not interested in only pushing a car to the limit by driving against the track and the time. I can drive pretty fast (well at least I used to... just got no time AT ALL right now because of uni), but this has never been the _real_ challenge in LFS. Its more about driving against other racers, and its an emotional kind of thing which you cant understand if you havent played LFS from the beginning. Thats probably the reason why so many people are moaning about the LFS developers lately.
Its just not true that they are not working or that they are doing unneccessary things. The people who moan simply dont know what LFS is all about. Almost everyone still thinks LFS is a game - its not a game, its a way of thinking
Placebo
This good ol days phenomenon is the same in every game. It's not the game that make it happen, but the players.

The only trend that's really deminishing for LFS, imo, is the slower rate of updates.
Quote from Breizh :This good ol days phenomenon is the same in every game. It's not the game that make it happen, but the players.

+10000
#18 - Woz
Quote from Breizh :This good ol days phenomenon is the same in every game. It's not the game that make it happen, but the players.

The only trend that's really deminishing for LFS, imo, is the slower rate of updates.

It is strange to see the split in the community on this one. I fully understand the OP as I was around in LFS at that time. I personally still prefer the smaller cars on the tighter tracks for the reasons stated hence when I race now its the CTRA1 server.

The LFS community was very different back just before S1 and through to near S2. The trouble with the faster cars is the same as IRL tbh. The faster the cars the less chances for those bumper to bumper battles.
I'm not saying it was always the same.. I only mean that what made the good old days what they were is almost always still available, if they weren't good old days only because of the good times you had with friends, regardless of what the game would've been. That almost everytime, it's just the players getting nostalgic, rather than the game really worsening beyond help.
Blackwood has changed, but you can still race it with the cars you choose, with friends who were there in those good old days, and it'd be a lot more fun than not being able to at all.
#20 - aoun
I would like more content, more this more that, better this better that, at the same time, i would love better physics even.

In the end, i don't care about more content, more this more that, better this better that, and also, i even couldn't care about better physics.

I just like to hop on to LFS, any obstacle, any steering wheel, any direction and just drive, look for faster ways, look for new ways, muck around etc.

If LFS stopped production, if LFS increased production rates, it wouldn't increase or decrease the amount of LFS i play and enjoy....

...Maybe you could say.. in a very well off/weird way, that LFS has simulated RL, by limiting what you get in life, what you do in life and how long something takes to be developed, how many times you do something OVER and OVER etc. and to me, no other racing Sim has done that. - That grey paragraph is just me, most likely no one elses thoughts lol

Yeah sure, LFS lacks, LFS produces, LFS does alot and at the same time doesn't have alot. It means nothing to me, because I've spent hours and hours which could equal days, weeks and even months. I got my money out of it and LFS was and still is, successful.

I have no dream, i have no vision, no expectations of LFS. Its just an interactive program made by 3 highly talented creators who are just trying to do what they do for a living.
#22 - Dac
the competition is good i feel. and i like the way LFS is going (although ive not been here long). its inevitable it will mirror real racing more and more, thats the nature of a simulator. the bigger and more competative LFS comes the more real is seems and where you fit in. without this it would just feel like another 2 player arcade game where winning or losing gives you that brief moment of satisfaction. whereas LFS gives you a sense that you are improving as a driver and that you can take something away from every race no matter where you place.
#23 - JJ72
I still drive the XRG 9 out of 10 times, mostly on fern bay and south city....it's never changed really...LFS being too serious? isn't that just a factor of who you are playing with??????? I don't really go to CTRA but just have some private sesson, with friends who raced each other since 3 to 4 years ago.

I guess most importantly I don't play LFS exclusively and extensively, and I don't join big leagues, so I don't really feel "the change".

Quote from scipy :good thing no one who matters cares about ur vision. ur little whining rant is more about your shortcomings than the shortcomings of lfs. imo, you dont get to complain since you didnt finish 1 race in half a year. fierce competiton is still here, and i'm guessing that you are still not fierce enough for it.

Go *whatever pleases you* yourself.
Please do not take my post to mean I want to see the fast cars and open track be removed or that I completely loath the current state of the program and community as I do not. I was mearly comenting on the difference in what I hoped LFS would decome and how it was evolved as a frame of refference for helping people understand why some I am asking for some of the changes I hope to see in the future.

Some where between Pre S1 and Now the feel of the program took some very distinct changes. The tire model is one of them, the clutch is another. Both are very much steps in the right direction but for me they both still feel very wrong, but still very close. Driving other sims, namely nKPro and getting a more performance centric car has shown me what I once though was a very accurate simulation, now feels nothing like my real car. The tires on the street cars are the one thing that really throws me off.

I do not understand why I can not get the tires in the XRG up to temp unless I use very low pressures. While this yeilds propper heating and thus good amounts of grip it also makes the handeling mushy and unresponsive. But if I try to run the tires at a more realistic 30-40 psi then the tires never get warm unless I slide the tires all oger the track.

I don't know why but the current road and road supper tires feel more like buget tires then somthing I would even consider putting on my car.
I really miss the old clean days of LFS as well and I'm affraid LFS will never go back to what it once was.

I don't think that the dev team has brought this upon us however, the recent changes that have been made/added have attracted a very "young and competetive" crowd that many of us old LFS'ers don't agree with.

Races have also become much more dirty then they used to be but there is a simple explanation to that.

Back then, you knew everyone you raced with as there were only a very limited number of players.
People had to take care of their reputation as respect on the track was much more important the simply fast laps.
This has changed quite a bit, as many might have noticed.
As devs obviously like the increased popularity, I don't expect the devs to cater to the needs and wants of the old minority.
I simply just race cars that the new crowd doesn't like, for the most part (LX, RAC, etc)

The good old quality is still there, however limited and hard to find. But its sure worth looking for it.
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I have a Dream…
(37 posts, started )
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