The old Pre-S1 and S1 days were great... but sure, the same guys aren't around, but the racing is still findable!

I had one of the best races I've ever had recently... on a S1 combo too... lx4 @ Fern Bay Gold. It was a league race and I can only compare it to some old turbo races at SO long.

Sure it was a league race where as the old races were just whenever you turned up... but they're still around. And I'm is Australia! we dont really have the big European crowds up there

It's a nice vision... if you look at it sideways... sorta...

Quote from gohfeld23 :

I really miss the old clean days of LFS as well and I'm affraid LFS will never go back to what it once was.

I don't think that the dev team has brought this upon us however, the recent changes that have been made/added have attracted a very "young and competetive" crowd that many of us old LFS'ers don't agree with.

Races have also become much more dirty then they used to be but there is a simple explanation to that.

Back then, you knew everyone you raced with as there were only a very limited number of players.
People had to take care of their reputation as respect on the track was much more important the simply fast laps.
This has changed quite a bit, as many might have noticed.
As devs obviously like the increased popularity, I don't expect the devs to cater to the needs and wants of the old minority.
I simply just race cars that the new crowd doesn't like, for the most part (LX, RAC, etc)

The good old quality is still there, however limited and hard to find. But its sure worth looking for it.

I thought that 3 years with LFS doesn't make you old school

But anyway, you are so right. The nature of races and general attitude of the racers have changed quite a lot in those 3 years I've been in. In 2005 everybody just raced, raced and raced. A restart after a finish, and another 5 laps of fair racing after T1 mayhem. Now the T1 habits have gone better but everything else is worse. That's why I only race in controlled environments like CTRA servers, because I want to make use of those few hours I play instead of getting an end race vote on the last and 12th lap (like last week) or get hit by a guy zooming the pit lane wrong way (like week before).

Even in the CTRA servers there are lots of people out-driving they skill level. This has been one of my biggest complaints over the last few years. The T1 nightmere has become less ugly but there are still frivers in every race that make poor choices because they do not respect me enough to think how I am affected if they crash or bump me in their attempt to get a fast time or gain a position.

The lack of risk is the reason. Its the biggest flaw in LFS and the faster the cars get, the more popular LFS gets the worse the issue becomes. The only incentive to drive safely around the track is ones own self image, pride and respect for others. There is no program mechanic that punishes or discourges people from unsafe and disrespecfull driving.

I think that will need to change if LFS is to continue to grow. If it does not find it way in to LFS in some way which is not overly intrusive then LFS will devolve in to somthing like NFS over time but with better physics.

The size of the community, in a way, doesn't help. Neither does the diversity of tracks.

The "problem" is, compared to racing back in '03, that the number of appealing combos that you both find interesting and are practiced at, that are currently populate, has if anything reduced. And then if you step in a server, you find a bunch of randoms you've never met before and the many might not have all that much experience at the combo.

When the community is small and the list of combos small also, you bump into the same old faces, and everybody knows the combos, so good, close racing is regularly had, and more fun when you know you're on the bumper of someone that was on your bumper all evening the day before.

Also with way more servers than people, if you do join a quiet/empty server with a combo you like, there's much less chance of people joining in to give you some fun. I remember racing in 03/04, having joined an empty server, and there'd be 10 people in there with me within half an hour to an hour. Now when I go on, I can join an empty server and stay there until I get bored (admittedly not an amazing length of time) and maybe have one or two people join who usually get bored quick and go somewhere else.

While I wasn't around in the "good old days", some of the things in your post resonate with me. I also much prefer the slower road cars. I've never driven the BF1 or F08 in a race and have barely even bothered turning a lap in them. Despite their speed, they just don't draw me in like the road cars and even the FOX. Same with the GTR cars. I drive them occasionally, but it feels more like work and less like fun. I would love to see more Blackwood-type tracks that are better suited to these cars (however, I will admit that Westhill is one of my favorite tracks, even in the road cars, due to its elevation changes and over-the-rise corners).

On the other hand, I think that LFS has become much better in many ways recently. The new clutch model and car stalling is a HUGE improvement in realism. I think that further additions like track temps, better damage model, realistic setup options, etc. could make it even better and push it more toward the "good old days" feeling. Driving the XRT around Blackwood gets old, but the ability to very track temps would help change things up a bit. Having realistic gear ratios and suspension adjustments would help keep the racing closer. Adding radiator damage would help prevent getting punted into the grass in T1. All of these things will make the game more realistic while simultaneously giving us better racing.

I think LFS the old days seemed to be about having fun racing all day with people that wanted the same thing, get to know more racers, just drive around bumper to bumper looking for some close racing fun even if it meant going much slower or not finishing in the lead. Now everything most people seem to care about is winning races no matter what, set the fastest lap times and avoid everyone from getting in their way because they slow them down. Or at least that's what I've been noticing lately

Quote from frokki :

I thought that 3 years with LFS doesn't make you old school

But anyway, you are so right. The nature of races and general attitude of the racers have changed quite a lot in those 3 years I've been in. In 2005 everybody just raced, raced and raced. A restart after a finish, and another 5 laps of fair racing after T1 mayhem. Now the T1 habits have gone better but everything else is worse. That's why I only race in controlled environments like CTRA servers, because I want to make use of those few hours I play instead of getting an end race vote on the last and 12th lap (like last week) or get hit by a guy zooming the pit lane wrong way (like week before).

Nah, I'm playing LFS on and off since the XRT was 6speed and BL had a tree in the middle of the chicane.
Just never jad a reason to register till 05.

However, even in '05 the community was much smaller then it is today.
When you know everyone you race with night after night, you care about your driving and behaviour.

Ah well....it's just a game, lets not take it too seriously.

Quote from Homeless_Drunk :

His opinion is false, how does that work?

No opinion is wrong, just an opinion from his point of view, everyone has their own opinion just let them have it.

from what i understood, and please correct me if i'm wrong, in the first times of lfs people were racing just for the fun of doing it. now all that matters is winning and "owning" everyone else. they only want to be faster and faster. sadly i have to agree with you. it's not the first time that i receive some, shall we say "not so nice" comments from faster drivers who think they have rights above the ones that are just there for the pleasure of driving. and in the end, you finish a race hating more people, before you even know them.
but anyway, i think i can be happy for being a "just for fun" racer, and have no intentions of changing this behaviour. i remember before Y18 and anyone could join a demo server, specially in the portuguese ones in my case, i entered the server and found a familiar name, and after that lots of messages contained some "lols", :P, and such, but now is almost impossible to get this feelings again.

Quote from jonny__27 :

from what i understood, and please correct me if i'm wrong, in the first times of lfs people were racing just for the fun of doing it. now all that matters is winning and "owning" everyone else. they only want to be faster and faster. sadly i have to agree with you. it's not the first time that i receive some, shall we say "not so nice" comments from faster drivers who think they have rights above the ones that are just there for the pleasure of driving. and in the end, you finish a race hating more people, before you even know them.
but anyway, i think i can be happy for being a "just for fun" racer, and have no intentions of changing this behaviour. i remember before Y18 and anyone could join a demo server, specially in the portuguese ones in my case, i entered the server and found a familiar name, and after that lots of messages contained some "lols", :P, and such, but now is almost impossible to get this feelings again.

That's just the way games work as their "communities" grow past a certain size, it's the same in pretty much all games, and it's reflective and a consequence of society. To put it briefly.

I don't like your dream

Quote from n2oaddict :

I think LFS the old days seemed to be about having fun racing all day with people that wanted the same thing, get to know more racers, just drive around bumper to bumper looking for some close racing fun even if it meant going much slower or not finishing in the lead. Now everything most people seem to care about is winning races no matter what, set the fastest lap times and avoid everyone from getting in their way because they slow them down. Or at least that's what I've been noticing lately

i hate those guys who think the blue flag literally means you should be off the track and standing still with the hazards on!

basically i just treat the blue flag as a 'get off the race line if you can and dont defend'.