Quote from ChiShiFu :

I'm quite curious as to what you meant by stomping the brakes. My interpretation is that you are saying braking, turning in, then accelerating loses too many revs? Should it be more, lightly brake and just turn in to scrub off speed?

And sorry to keep asking this question, but you and someone else have said to keep it smooth to keep engine revs up. Rdcranno however supported my initial impression that you were supposed to throw the kart into the corner to keep the revs up. Again, I pose the question, which is correct? (Or is a case of, there is no one correct answer and I should travel my own spiritual journey to find my own truth )

http://www.karting1.co.uk/braking-karting.htm - That sort of driving you get away with in a powerful 2 stroke but try it in a 4 stroke rental kart that weighs 200+kgs it just doesn't work.

Throwing the kart into the corner will not really keep your revs up, all your going to do is cause the engine to bog down and thus the revs will drop. If your nice and smooth the engine doesn't have to work so hard thus naturally the revs don't drop drop as much.

Most hire karts will be using the Honda GX--- engines which just don't have the power to be thrown about, especially when the kart weighs 200+kgs.

Quote from keiran :

http://www.karting1.co.uk/braking-karting.htm - That sort of driving you get away with in a powerful 2 stroke but try it in a 4 stroke rental kart that weighs 200+kgs it just doesn't work.

Throwing the kart into the corner will not really keep your revs up, all your going to do is cause the engine to bog down and thus the revs will drop. If your nice and smooth the engine doesn't have to work so hard thus naturally the revs don't drop drop as much.

Most hire karts will be using the Honda GX--- engines which just don't have the power to be thrown about, especially when the kart weighs 200+kgs.

Appreciate the response Ironically I was just reading up at that site and somewhat realized for myself oh, this theory doesn't exactly apply to these small rental kart places. Thanks for the info, I'm actually heading to a kart center later tonight (50% off this week ) so i'll see if I can test out these different trains of though

4strokes bog down even when you put too much laterial load on the rear axle. generally I see two ways how people drive them......1. run a smoother more constant radius to keep the revs up. 2. straightline the entry, turn it around quickly with a stab of the brakes and plant the foot on the throttle.

sometimes you gain a little by way 2 but it's not as consistent, and generally works slightly better if you have a long straight before the corner, since if your entry speed is low you won't rotate the car much without finding yourself braking too hard. But it's good to try out sometimes you need to run such line when you try to overtake. most of the time you try to pass accelerating out of a corner though.

So lately I got this karting bug too My local outdoor kart track was rebuilt a couple of years ago and now it has really smooth surface and safe plastic barriers and new timing equipment - it's probably the norm in UK and everywhere else, but here such thing are rare...

Anyway, on topic, I have only driven rental karts once in another track before trying this. This track itself is short (only 620 m) and has very few corners. The karts weigh 160 kg and have 9 hp 4 stroke "lawn mover" engines. They have limiters set at 75 kph which kick in at around the middle of the bent straight. The only place where braking is needed is the sharp corner after that bent straight - you're going a bit downhill there. Lap record achieved in recent 200 lap race by regular rental kart club racers is 33.8**. First time there managed to do 35.2** (only qualifying "mode" there is free for all - up to 10 karts start from pits and try to achieve best laptime in 9 min session. The best times I saw some regular drivers doing were around 34.5** . To actually race one has to show good results in such public sessions and then join the "Sub 35 sec. club"). The second time I went there, luckily the track was empty and I did 34.8**. I was going round the "loop" corner strictly on the inside, but thought that bigger radius line would be faster. So I tried to perfect that wider line the third time I was at the track and only managed 35.3** , however in every lap I threw the kart a bit sideways there and could feel the engine slowing :snail:.

So the question (finally !) is - should the ideal line there be the smallest radius circle or should I try to maximize speed going to that tight hairpin (5) from the outside of the loop (4), but being smooth and not sliding the kart ?
And how should I approach that corner after the straight (2) - dabbing the brakes as late as possible to unsettle the rear and scrub remaining excess speed by slightly sliding the kart through that corner or brake a bit earlier and more gently and then try to go round in a smooth wide arc at almost constant speed ?

I understand that you can't tell much without actually driving/seeing the track for yourself, but still - what's your opinion just looking at the map ?


p.s. maybe not the most constructive and needed post, but I,m really excited to have discovered "rental kart motorsport" ...and yeah, my paint skills are really poor

Do you know how much hp the karts have? I imagine there 5.5 hp or 6.5 hp honda's? Well, the main point is, dont hit the brakes too hard if the engines are this small. Just come into the corner, as far outside as you can get, tap the brakes twice, and only twice. Then turn in as late as possible, but make sure you still hit the apex. Make sure you turn smoothly. If you turn too hard, that will kill the engine RPM's just like brake would.


Good luck,
Kenneth

Quote from MarioX :

So lately I got this karting bug too My local outdoor kart track was rebuilt a couple of years ago and now it has really smooth surface and safe plastic barriers and new timing equipment - it's probably the norm in UK and everywhere else, but here such thing are rare...

Anyway, on topic, I have only driven rental karts once in another track before trying this. This track itself is short (only 620 m) and has very few corners. The karts weigh 160 kg and have 9 hp 4 stroke "lawn mover" engines. They have limiters set at 75 kph which kick in at around the middle of the bent straight. The only place where braking is needed is the sharp corner after that bent straight - you're going a bit downhill there. Lap record achieved in recent 200 lap race by regular rental kart club racers is 33.8**. First time there managed to do 35.2** (only qualifying "mode" there is free for all - up to 10 karts start from pits and try to achieve best laptime in 9 min session. The best times I saw some regular drivers doing were around 34.5** . To actually race one has to show good results in such public sessions and then join the "Sub 35 sec. club"). The second time I went there, luckily the track was empty and I did 34.8**. I was going round the "loop" corner strictly on the inside, but thought that bigger radius line would be faster. So I tried to perfect that wider line the third time I was at the track and only managed 35.3** , however in every lap I threw the kart a bit sideways there and could feel the engine slowing :snail:.

So the question (finally !) is - should the ideal line there be the smallest radius circle or should I try to maximize speed going to that tight hairpin (5) from the outside of the loop (4), but being smooth and not sliding the kart ?
And how should I approach that corner after the straight (2) - dabbing the brakes as late as possible to unsettle the rear and scrub remaining excess speed by slightly sliding the kart through that corner or brake a bit earlier and more gently and then try to go round in a smooth wide arc at almost constant speed ?

I understand that you can't tell much without actually driving/seeing the track for yourself, but still - what's your opinion just looking at the map ?


p.s. maybe not the most constructive and needed post, but I,m really excited to have discovered "rental kart motorsport" ...and yeah, my paint skills are really poor

Can you post the blank picture and I will put the line on the whole track for you that I assume would be fastest.

Thanks for reply Kenneth,

"tapping the brakes twice" - that's something to think about for me, before the next visit there
They have RIMO and Sodi rentals there and both are said to have 9 hp engines.

Hmm, Ive never heard of the RIMO kart, heard of Sodi before. I will go and do this racing line, and will re post it in around 10 minutes.

Green=Full gas.
Red=half to full brake
Orange=tiny bit of brakes. Not even 25%
Yellow=Nothing, just coast.

nice turns 4 and 5 might be the secret here if I manage to pull it off correctly...
thanks again I'll report back here when I get a chance to try this line at the track

The picture might not be right, but it is somewhat right, if the track has absolutely no bumps. Try this, if it doesn't make you faster just test things, focus on how you enter the corner...And see if you come out faster...

Oh. My. God. That was AMAZING

And........ I WON! I even got a trophy

Well, 'we' won - we were in teams of two, and you swapped drivers (a bit like Le Mans). We decided to do 15 mins sections then change drivers, with my team-mate doing the first 15 mins, but after I went out he decided to let me stay out for the rest of the hour session as I was doing really well

We were 3rd after his 15 mins, but I was in the lead after 20 mins of my session, and stayed there for the rest of the race. Not a single driver overtook me for the whole time I was out there (well, except for once or twice when I was bogged down in traffic, but I got it back pretty much immediately, and it wouldn't have happened at all if I'd had mirrors).

I was really surprised about how much knowledge carried over from LFS. Things like braking line, I already knew, but I could tweak my entry and exit lines to set me up for the next corner, which I'd not have known to do without LFS. I also found I could control the kart when it understeered without really having to think about it, and LFS helped a LOT with discipline when overtaking someone. I found it really good fun trying to guess the line the car in front would take to I could get past on the corner exit.

I was also surprised with the speed of the karts, not driving a normal car myself at all. My average speed for my best lap (0:27.80 if you're interested, the record is 0:23 I think) was 37mph, so I imagine they were doing 45mph or so along the straights. It was amazing fun taking the fast corners along the back of the circuit flat out, with the kart hopping across the track, right on the edge of traction. They oversteered a fair bit when you put the power down while exiting a corner, which surprised me, and there was a great corner you could take with the back end hanging right out with a bit of careful throttle control. I see what people mean though when they say 4-strokes get bogged down if you're not careful. I found I had to start accelerating well before the apex, just so the engine would catch up and start pulling again just as you passed the right place.

All in all, one of the best evenings I've ever had. Well, the best I've had sitting down, whilst still wearing all my clothes..

I'm DEFINITELY going back.

Trust me you where nowhere near the edge of traction...

EDIT - Not an insult, more of a friendly jibe to have another crack!

Quote from Jakg :

Trust me you where nowhere near the edge of traction...

EDIT - Not an insult, more of a friendly jibe to have another crack!

Allright... but it was bouncing sideways across the track a bit. I imagine thats due to having no suspension. I was impressed by the amount of lateral grip you get. It took me a good few laps to get up the confidence to take a corner *slightly* too fast. Didn't crash it at all though, which I'm pleased about, although I did panic and lock up the back wheels (no front brakes...) and smack straight into someone who'd spun right in front of me early on.

EDIT: Nevermind

Awww... I was waiting ages for some kind of reply, and '.... never mind' is all I get..?

Good to hear you enjoyed yourself!

If you felt your kart was understeering a fair bit try turning the steering wheel sharper into the corners, just to force the front tyres to bite. This technique works better on tighter corners. Obviously remember to start straightening up as soon as the kart is getting to the apex and let it drift out to carry good speed round the corner. The amount of people I've given that bit of advice at work who end up spinning out cause they just keep the wheel locked far too long.

The kart bouncing will be you getting the rear inside wheel off the ground (which is what you want) and the outside wheel losing grip/regaining grip. Just watch it isn't costing you time, on our circuit in a couple of corners 80% of the public just go bouncing really wide in the corners cause they try to go way to quick into them.

Just a bit of advice for you if you decide to go back. Don't fall into the trend of many people who come to the place I work regularly. They never experiment, do the same old and wander why their times are way off ours.

Also what u can do to make the kart stiffer just before u go into a turn push really hard on the wheel with both arms/hands w/e, then the kart will bounce less because u made it stiffer push REALLY REALLY hard, i do it indoor most of the time and get better result out of that