wikipedia said :
"2009 Formula 2 Revival
On 25th June 2008 the FIA announced that the Formula 2 name would be revived for a new cut-price (€200,000 per season) championship from 2009.[1]"

is it real?

That would mean its replacing GP2?

Or mabye they would be ahead of GP2? or below? or in competition?..

I would just like to see what the cars would be like.

Quote from aoun :

Or mabye they would be ahead of GP2? or below? or in competition?..

I would just like to see what the cars would be like.

By the sounds of things its inbetween F1 and F3 which would mean it would be using F3000 which is what they have in GP2.

Quote from Mustafur :

That would mean its replacing GP2?

hardly possible if it cost only twice as FBMW.

Probably something using second-hand F3000 chassis and regulation-mandated engines.

Makes me think of the old Australian Formula Holden/4000. They weren't any/much more expensive than F3.

Quote from Mustafur :

By the sounds of things its inbetween F1 and F3 which would mean it would be using F3000 which is what they have in GP2.

F3000 and GP2 are technically dissimilar.


Here's a news article on the topic: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68628

Interesting.

Quote from samjh :

Probably something using second-hand F3000 chassis and regulation-mandated engines.

Makes me think of the old Australian Formula Holden/4000. They weren't any/much more expensive than F3.

F3000 and GP2 are technically dissimilar.


Here's a news article on the topic: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68628

Interesting.

How about Formula Geely V6?

Quote from scania :

How about Formula Geely V6?

Geely is a Taiwanese car maker, right?

Formula Holden was so named because they used the Holden Commodore 3.8L V6 engine. It was later known as Formula 4000, because the engine was in the F4000-class (ie. 4-litre).

Technically, the GP2 series is more like F4000 than F3000, as they use Renault 4-litre engines (next year's car will be powered by Ferrari, though).

F2 car for 200,000 Euros...

For cost comparison, the Australian F3 championship (outright class) costs around AU$60,000 per season, plus AU$100,000 for a second-hand Dallara 304 with engine. This doesn't include accommodation and travel costs, testing costs, cost of repairs, etc. All included, you're looking at AU$200,000 per season as a privateer - minimum.

Quote from samjh :

Geely is a Taiwanese car maker, right?

Formula Holden was so named because they used the Holden Commodore 3.8L V6 engine. It was later known as Formula 4000, because the engine was in the F4000-class (ie. 4-litre).

Technically, the GP2 series is more like F4000 than F3000, as they use Renault 4-litre engines (next year's car will be powered by Ferrari, though).

Geely is in China......

Quote from scania :

Geely is in China......

Sorry

Quote from samjh :

For cost comparison, the Australian F3 championship (outright class) costs around AU$60,000 per season, plus AU$100,000 for a second-hand Dallara 304 with engine. This doesn't include accommodation and travel costs, testing costs, cost of repairs, etc. All included, you're looking at AU$200,000 per season as a privateer - minimum.

Sounds like a bargain, British F3 has budgets of £500000 and up.

I haven';t seen the class specs but an international car racing series that is a support to F1 for 200,000 euros????? people spend more in karting FFS! Those figures are totally misleading... more like 2,000,000 euros.. 200,000 won't pay the hotel bills

read on the other website that F2 would be the last league before you can enter F1. So i guess it would be ahead of GP2

Quote from Intrepid :

I haven';t seen the class specs but an international car racing series that is a support to F1 for 200,000 euros????? people spend more in karting FFS! Those figures are totally misleading...

If people feel the need to spend more than a tenth of that on go karts then something has gone very wrong with a formula that was meant to offer low cost simple entry into motorsport.

£160000 is a lot of money, more than enough to run serious single seaters for a season if they're run with production based engines, not crashed to often and most importantly run centrally so cars are all the same and there is no option to throw silly money for small improvements. Formula Palmer Audi manages to offer seasons around the £60000 mark, putting a more powerful production based engine in a similar chassis and some extra transport cost won't triple the price.

Quote from DevilDare :

read on the other website that F2 would be the last league before you can enter F1. So i guess it would be ahead of GP2

GP2 isn't the last 'league'... motorsport isn't a league system. Don't work like that. GP2 is a SUPPORT series not a feeder. There is NO requirement for a driver to race in Gp2

Quote from ajp71 :

If people feel the need to spend more than a tenth of that on go karts then something has gone very wrong with a formula that was meant to offer low cost simple entry into motorsport.

karting was never meant as an entry to motorsport. It was meant to be the simplist way to go fast. 100cc engines have NEVER been low cost and thats bren the staple engine for nearly 50 years until now.... even though karting can be extremely cheap.. but at european level where even F1 drives are won and lost for young drivers costs are going to be high.

Quote :

£160000 is a lot of money, more than enough to run serious single seaters for a season if they're run with production based engines, not crashed to often and most importantly run centrally so cars are all the same and there is no option to throw silly money for small improvements. Formula Palmer Audi manages to offer seasons around the £60000 mark, putting a more powerful production based engine in a similar chassis and some extra transport cost won't triple the price.

From my experience costs of a class are more down to who is competing in a class than the actual cars themselves. (not ignoring they are a factor)

Let's take Tristans MonoPosta class as an example. I am sure he isn't spending the same amount of money as the drivers who competed in his car when it was raced in Formula 3 or whatever orginally. When you are racing at a 'higher' level against rich opponants ways to spend money will be found.

Another example. Up until recently racing 100cc karts would have cost THOUSANDS... now they arent raced at a high level anymore they are the CHEAPEST engines to run and race!!! This is purely down to the fact you are not racing rich people anymore. Formula Palmer Audi isn't as popular as other classes in terms of drivers wanting to 'make' it. I can assure you if the F Renault, and BMW grid of FPA you would see costs rise immensely.

The richer drivers can afford to test more, and develop their skills beyond poorer drivers. To actually compete you will have to spend so much in testing to get on that level. The hidden costs will be immense in F2 compared to this proposed 200,000. this is motorsport at the end of the day.

Quote from Intrepid :

karting was never meant as an entry to motorsport. It was meant to be the simplist way to go fast. 100cc engines have NEVER been low cost and thats bren the staple engine for nearly 50 years until now.... even though karting can be extremely cheap.. but at european level where even F1 drives are won and lost for young drivers costs are going to be high.



From my experience costs of a class are more down to who is competing in a class than the actual cars themselves. (not ignoring they are a factor)

Let's take Tristans MonoPosta class as an example. I am sure he isn't spending the same amount of money as the drivers who competed in his car when it was raced in Formula 3 or whatever orginally. When you are racing at a 'higher' level against rich opponants ways to spend money will be found.

Another example. Up until recently racing 100cc karts would have cost THOUSANDS... now they arent raced at a high level anymore they are the CHEAPEST engines to run and race!!! This is purely down to the fact you are not racing rich people anymore. Formula Palmer Audi isn't as popular as other classes in terms of drivers wanting to 'make' it. I can assure you if the F Renault, and BMW grid of FPA you would see costs rise immensely.

The richer drivers can afford to test more, and develop their skills beyond poorer drivers. To actually compete you will have to spend so much in testing to get on that level. The hidden costs will be immense in F2 compared to this proposed 200,000. this is motorsport at the end of the day.

I'd be very very disappointed if my annual budget went into five figures. We aim to spend a lot less than that (which is why my racing career isn't going to be a multi-decade one, but a multi-month one )

Quote from Intrepid :

karting was never meant as an entry to motorsport. It was meant to be the simplist way to go fast. 100cc engines have NEVER been low cost and thats bren the staple engine for nearly 50 years until now.... even though karting can be extremely cheap.. but at european level where even F1 drives are won and lost for young drivers costs are going to be high.

A quick google reveals the first go kart was built 52 years ago by Kurtis out of a few bits of old tube and an old lawn mower engine, to offer a cheap form of motorsport.

Quote :

Formula Palmer Audi isn't as popular as other classes in terms of drivers wanting to 'make' it. I can assure you if the F Renault, and BMW grid of FPA you would see costs rise immensely.

You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. FPA is run so you pay the amount (approx £60000 IIRC) and that is it, I think there is a certain level of damage repairs included in that but further repairs would be the only extra cost. Palmer Audi run the cars, you can't just buy extra testing or decide to replace tyres more often, or have bits re-made in exotic materials (I know a single seater team was spending 4 figures on each set of wheel bearings to lower friciton), you can't cheat either, which when all is said and done probably does happen quite routinely in current top level spec series, where you have independant teams with massive budgets and very little room for legal inovation to get the edge.

There is no reason why the Palmer Audi/Skip Barber model couldn't be used on a slightly larger scale, it seems pointless to have a one make tightly regulated series and then let a load of teams spend the same budgets they would spend in a technically open championship to achieve bugger all.

You also seem to have forgotten that Button (whom presumably you love on grounds he is British and once got in a kart) moved to FPA after he started in karts. The BRDC also offer scholarships and drives to karters to move up into FPA.

Quote from ajp71 :

A quick google reveals the first go kart was built 52 years ago by Kurtis out of a few bits of old tube and an old lawn mower engine, to offer a cheap form of motorsport.



You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. FPA is run so you pay the amount (approx £60000 IIRC) and that is it, I think there is a certain level of damage repairs included in that but further repairs would be the only extra cost. Palmer Audi run the cars, you can't just buy extra testing or decide to replace tyres more often, or have bits re-made in exotic materials (I know a single seater team was spending 4 figures on each set of wheel bearings to lower friciton), you can't cheat either, which when all is said and done probably does happen quite routinely in current top level spec series, where you have independant teams with massive budgets and very little room for legal inovation to get the edge.

There is no reason why the Palmer Audi/Skip Barber model couldn't be used on a slightly larger scale, it seems pointless to have a one make tightly regulated series and then let a load of teams spend the same budgets they would spend in a technically open championship to achieve bugger all.

You also seem to have forgotten that Button (whom presumably you love on grounds he is British and once got in a kart) moved to FPA after he started in karts. The BRDC also offer scholarships and drives to karters to move up into FPA.

Even if the cost is fixed I can pay to do extra testing, which will give me an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else. Testing comes at a premium in cars, and is MASSIVELY important in developing a drivers skills.

Are you naive enough to believe that people will lay down 60k and that's it if FPA was a 'top tier' single seater class like F Renault/F3?????? If I had a million or two spare I would have my imaginary son out every other day in a single seater getting lappage, with TOP driver coaching, and top data analysis coaching... will that give my 'son' an advantage? YES! Will other drivers have to follow suit to compete? YES! Can FPA do anything about it? NO!

Thats how IT WORKS!!!! These fixed cost classes ALWAYS have hidden costs and hidden advantages! from karting all the way to cars its the same

you can't stop ME spending MY money and gaining an ADVANTAGE... if i had the money lol

Quote from ajp71 :

I know a single seater team was spending 4 figures on each set of wheel bearings to lower friciton

Comtec?

Quote from Intrepid :

people spend more in karting FFS!

That's where they are going wrong then...

Quote from Intrepid :

you can't stop ME spending MY money and gaining an ADVANTAGE... if i had the money lol

Firstly as I think you are still missing you could simply be banned from spending any extra money making the car faster or better prepared. I also don't think it is beyond even the FIA to ban or restrict testing and driver coaching in other cars.

200k is a little low, unless these cars are held together by rubber bands and super glue.

Quote from ajp71 :

Firstly as I think you are still missing you could simply be banned from spending any extra money making the car faster or better prepared. I also don't think it is beyond even the FIA to ban or restrict testing and driver coaching in other cars.

I am pretty sure there is nothing the FIA can do about me purchasing a single seater, hiring a track and driver/data coach. I have been in motorsport long enough to COMPLETELY ignore budget figures. You spend as much as you can afford... that's always been the bottom line. If I have a trillion to spend on racing I'll spend a trillion, and if I have just 10k I'll spend 10k. No one can stop me spending my money.... not even the FIA... in fact if they tried I wouldn't be surprised to see some break away series

This 200,000 euro figure is an attention grabber figure and nothing else.

Quote from Intrepid :

I am pretty sure there is nothing the FIA can do about me purchasing a single seater, hiring a track and driver/data coach. I have been in motorsport long enough to COMPLETELY ignore budget figures. You spend as much as you can afford... that's always been the bottom line. If I have a trillion to spend on racing I'll spend a trillion, and if I have just 10k I'll spend 10k. No one can stop me spending my money.... not even the FIA... in fact if they tried I wouldn't be surprised to see some break away series

This 200,000 euro figure is an attention grabber figure and nothing else.

So your basically saying over spending in racing is a good thing?

If they are able to keep a competive series for under 200k then i think FIA have made a hell of a good job here, it give alot more drivers who would never be given a chance to race in this level catagory due to costs.