Just heard this on the news that Virgin Media have sent out warning letters to hundreds of people about their file sharing habits.

Just how do they know that people have been file sharing?, are they monitoring all internet usage or something?.

I just can't see how they can monitor Bit torrent traffic.

I am not with Virgin BTW, just curious about how they do it.

Quote from danowat :

Just heard this on the news that Virgin Media have sent out warning letters to hundreds of people about their file sharing habits.

Just how do they know that people have been file sharing?, are they monitoring all internet usage or something?.

I just can't see how they can monitor Bit torrent traffic.

I am not with Virgin BTW, just curious about how they do it.

No idea if they have or not, but using DPI, it's quite easy.. unfortunately.



Regards,

Ian

Dpi?

I thought DPI stood for Dot's Per Inch

Deep Packet Inspection.

Not too clued up on _exactly_ how it works (networking isn't my forté) but I guess BT data has a certain "pattern" which can be monitored.



Regards,

Ian

What I find interesting is, it's clearly possible to monitor peoples usage, otherwise they wouldn't be able to hand out these warnings, but, there are clearly much more nasty, and illegal things that people do on the net, bank fraud, child porn etc etc, why don't they spend time trying to clean this up, rather than hounding mr x who downloads music?.

Seems like the priorities are all wrong to me........

I think they can tell the sort of data it is by the pattern (i.e. upload at the same time), port and size of data rather than what your exactly downloading.

They have no idea what it is you're downloading/uploading is that would violate data protection acts, but they make an assumption that because you're using a port common with file sharing and/or your traffic usage that you must be a pirate.

So basically, they see "patterns" and assume you are downloading pirated material?, so it's all bluff and fluster then, because you can download legit stuff using BT, I guess it's up to them to try and prove you downloaded pirated material.

What a load of BS, it's like fining drivers of cars that CAN go over the speed limit because they might.....

More like fining them because they looked like they had a right shift on when i was eating my McDonalds parked up in my police car.

I was under the impression that the BPI identified the evil, nasty p2p-ers basically by joining the swarm and writing down IP addresses. Then taking it up with the ISP who then sends the letter to the users.

So guilty untill proven innocent, gotta love our judicial system

The idea the incompetent buggers at vm could implement a working DPI right now is laughable beyond belief. It is as simple as Bean0`s reply. BPI see IP, notify ISP.

Doesn`t sound like it will be too heavy handed atm for anyone using thems evil torrentz, unlike this new trend amongst greedy lawyer firms - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2 ... _lyons_dream_pinball_win/

They monitor the swarms, find people downloading dodgy stuff, then contact the owners of the pirated material and offer to prosecute on their behalf.

Just a few more steps before we end up with the RIAA in the UK...

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

They have no idea what it is you're downloading/uploading is that would violate data protection acts, but they make an assumption that because you're using a port common with file sharing and/or your traffic usage that you must be a pirate.

They can.. hence the word 'packet' not 'port'.

Any numpty can run a service on a different port to standard, and ISPs know this.. so they need to use other, more reliable methods.. so they inspect the actual data packets being transmitted.. think 'Phorm'.



Regards,

Ian

I'm glad i'm with Orange broadband who probably couldn't give a monkeys as long as they get their £5 a month.

Seriously though - what about people who buy songs from itunes? Will they also get banned by Virgin? I think it would be hilarious of someone buying a download movie from Virgin, downloading it and then getting banned by their own ISP for downloading.

Quote from mcintyrej :

I'm glad i'm with Orange broadband who probably couldn't give a monkeys as long as they get their £5 a month.

Seriously though - what about people who buy songs from itunes? Will they also get banned by Virgin? I think it would be hilarious of someone buying a download movie from Virgin, downloading it and then getting banned by their own ISP for downloading.

The downloading is not what they are targeting, it is the uploading or 'file sharing'. Anyone using a 1-Click Rapidshare download of a pirated album won't get caught, for example.

What about gaming then? Surely that would look like the same thing? Especially over a period of time. I do the igtc!

Sounds to me like the comcast stupid virus has hit the UK. I am luck I am not with comcast. RIAA makes America look like morons....and G.Bush, MPAA, Corporations, Eco mentalists and the constitution itself

EDIT: Doesn't certain games require certain ports and packets so be sent i and out? MY modem came preloaded with such things already set up.

Quote from danowat :

Seems like the priorities are all wrong to me........

Well, you see, it all comes back to bandwidth and contention (most ISPs don't care about the legality of what you're downloading - after all, it's you who'll get the fine for it, not them). ISPs are very, very reluctant to expand their networks to cope with demand (after all, that'd reduce their profits), so they attempt to throttle the bandwidth and data transfer per user. The first things they target are large downloads - and BT traffic is a perfect place to find large downloads.

There are two main methods used to target BT traffic, which have both been listed above (looking for data sent on common BT ports and DPI/CPI). The latter would probably be borderline illegal, if ISPs didn't pass it off under the guise of 'maintaining network integrity' or something equally as retarded.

Basically, they're trying to cover up the limitations of their network by reducing load, not by improving the network. That way, you get more customers paying you for the same amount of resource.

Quote from MR_B :

What about gaming then? Surely that would look like the same thing? Especially over a period of time. I do the igtc!

why would it look like "the same thing" exactly?

Quote from MR_B :

What about gaming then? Surely that would look like the same thing? Especially over a period of time. I do the igtc!

What about gaming, FTP.. whatever.. nothing to worry about / consider. Simplified:


Bittorrent packets: ABC123AABB321
Gaming packets: A1B2C3D4E5F6


Hence the term 'deep packet'. They're not just looking at "this user is uploading.. he must be seeding illegal software"... they're looking at _what_ data you're sharing and going on that.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from JamesF1 :

[ snip ]

Basically, they're trying to cover up the limitations of their network by reducing load, not by improving the network. That way, you get more customers paying you for the same amount of resource.

And that's really the bottom line. ISPs want to continue to oversell themselves at a cost to the customer. Has always been the same and I can't see it improving in the (not so near) future.



Regards,

Ian

It'd never stand up in court. Just because you're using a torrent doesn't mean you're getting anything you don't already own. ISO backups of software you own is perfectly legal, and if you don't own an ISO writer then downloading is easier and cheaper.
Basically, all the person would need to do is go and buy a used copy of the software they downloaded (to make sure the serial number pre-dates the download) and it is impossible to prove. £10 for a used game or £750 for a fine. Let me think...
Even then, look at GunZ: The Duel. It uses torrents to distribute patches. I'm sure there must be plenty of others that do too.

Besides, you can't tell me that nothing else uses the same kind of packets that torrents do.

Quote from MR_B :

What about gaming then? Surely that would look like the same thing? Especially over a period of time. I do the igtc!

The bandwidth consumed by gaming is relatively small compared to straight-out downloading. It's not online gaming that's stressing your ISPs network.

Quote from Dajmin :

It'd never stand up in court.

Yes it would, because they'll claim that it's helping to:

• a) crack down on illegal file sharing (which, it will be having an effect on - any other effects will be passed off as 'side effects' of that)
  
• b) maintaining network integrity in order to provide an equal service to all their customers