Dont flame me for this , just i think in a basic idea

I know the Dev have a schedule for release thing and improve things for the Sim

It whould be nice , the comunity participate a little more with that

Example

Devs: day 5 of december , we have 3 things we made for implemet

1:dinamyc weather
2:a new track
3:a new car

What is the comunity choise ?

The idea is select one of there option to be done in first place with hes corrent test and time to create that and all the stuff

With a poll , we choise the most voted request and devs start to work on that
Kepping as low as posible the stupid tread poll with sarcastic and ironic post of some user

Try to make the comunity participate a little more , of couse , allways the dev have 2 or 3 or more thing can do and only 1 for choise

I hope explaine well

P.S:Is silly mi idea but for my POV ( of woman ) a little more enjoyable this idea ; )

Quote from Inouva :

Dont flame me for this...

I can just see LFS in S3 the ultimate free roam city driving sim with drift arena's, airport tracks and a to b highway sprints

hehe
i guess that they will rather do it on their own

The way in which the team works makes this extremely unlikely. Of course I'm not a member of the development team, but given their past comments and behaviours it just wouldn't fit into their ideology.

It has been said that they went out on their own in order to avoid things like crunch time, etc. and by setting publically available goals they're likely to be facing crunch time over and over again.

If you're unaware crunch time is basically a no sleep marathon of programming, modelling, etc. - anything and everything just to get the product done.

The thing is when you're programming on something of any significant scale every now and then you'll come across something which was a good move when it was written, but doesn't quite work with what you now want to do with it. Even the best programmers have to refactor (significantly alter existing code) from time to time - this why programs of different versions are not always compatible with all plugins, file formats, etc. etc. For this reason it's not compatible with the work ethic of the team.

What would you rather have? A stressed out development team who quickly get fed up, or someone who is a bit more relaxed and happy in themselves? In my opinion and experience the latter provides a better product at the end of the day.

Does not really work that way, at all.

After that being said, I'd really like having F40, Mosport, LX8 and Nordshcleife. Can I vote four times? Eric..? Please make a post that has a nordschleife in it :yummy:

Please please please. Just a tiny post...

...
maybe post this kind of flamewar fodder into the improvement suggestions section so that I do not stumble upon it?
Thanks

Jdm Ff Vtec Naws Ftw!!

Not every post has to turn into a flame war...

Inouva, your idea simply will not work, for reasons already stated by angry angel.

What could work though, is getting rid of the disorganized improvement forum and creating a separate website/bug tracking system where registered community members can report bugs, request features, etc. What's nice about these system is that bugs and features with more votes rise to the top so that it's fairly evident which features the users care most about.

Quote from Technique :

... What could work though, is getting rid of the disorganized improvement forum and creating a separate website/bug tracking system ...

Amen to that.

Quote from Technique :

What's nice about these system is that bugs and features with more votes rise to the top so that it's fairly evident which features the users care most about.

Wouldn't necesarily agree... your assuming that the majority of forum members want to see LFS develop into an online racing simulator, and that most serious sim drivers visit/post in the forums.

That simply isn't the case and as a consequence the most popular things judged by forum members may not be what is best for the sim.

I don't think a democracy is the best structure for developing a sim (rfactor?) I am sure Scawen and co have no shortage of ideas and have also a pretty good grasp on what the community think is important. More importantly though they also have a vision of what they see in a sim and even though at times we may struggle to see that they see, they do see

well , i feel hopless

LFS =/= democracy

The devs chose their work model because they were sick of not being able to do
what they want
when they want
at what pace they want.

If the devs were fine with being dictated what to do and being under constant time pressure, then LFS wouldn't exist and Scawen and Eric would probably still work at Lionhead.

All we have is two options

1) Make a valid suggestion about something that makes sense at exactly the time Scawen was thinking about it anyway to get it implemented.
Example: LSD preload.

2) Whine and nag and complain and whine some more (the usual thing, in other words) until Scawen shifts his priorities a little to implement a not too complicated feature. Basically like #1 but increasing the chances of success by constant retries and planting the thought in Scawen's subconscious. Only works with valid suggestions. May fail. May result in the opposite of the desired outcome.
Example: Skidmarks.

Quote from Glenn67 :

Wouldn't necesarily agree... your assuming that the majority of forum members want to see LFS develop into an online racing simulator, and that most serious sim drivers visit/post in the forums.

That simply isn't the case and as a consequence the most popular things judged by forum members may not be what is best for the sim.

I don't think a democracy is the best structure for developing a sim (rfactor?) I am sure Scawen and co have no shortage of ideas and have also a pretty good grasp on what the community think is important. More importantly though they also have a vision of what they see in a sim and even though at times we may struggle to see that they see, they do see

I agree that the community doesn't necessarily know what's always right for the sim. A bug tracking/feature request system makes no promise that features are implemented. The problem with the current improvements forum is that good feature requests may get buried under countless repeated posts. The forum has no structure in place to put value to the ideas suggested.

Why do you feel hopeless?

Everytime they bring out a test patch series, you can help by testing and reporting bugs.

You can be part of a dynamic community to what ever level you desire, plenty of opportunities from participating in events to helping organise events to programing insim add-ons, there is a vast amount of areas that you can be involved in depending on what skills/imagination/time you have.

Feeling hopeless is a state of mind

Quote from Technique :

The problem with the current improvements forum is that good feature requests may get buried under countless repeated posts. The forum has no structure in place to put value to the ideas suggested.

On that I do agree also, but we don't really know if good suggestions go unnoticed or not as Scawen has said he doesn't always acknowledge things that he makes notes about even in the bug threads. He might do the same in the improvement section as well. Either way I agree that the improvement section has grown large and unwieldily and could benefit from better structure.

Quote from Technique :

I agree that the community doesn't necessarily know what's always right for the sim. A bug tracking/feature request system makes no promise that features are implemented. The problem with the current improvements forum is that good feature requests may get buried under countless repeated posts. The forum has no structure in place to put value to the ideas suggested.

Oh the improvement suggestions forum is working fine. What you have to realise is that it's supposed to work as a filter to remove all the duplicate/obvious/useless suggestions from the other subforums. It works on the principle that the truly good suggestions will get to the devs by other means, while not wasting the devs time having to wade through the nth iteration of someone thinking he's a genius for suggesting better aero/damage/tyres or more cars/tracks, not even counting all the BS/ricer/drifter/cruise suggestions.

It might not have been planned this way originally, but the experience just shows there is no other way to make use of this subsection.

We are not the Scavier's bosses. They can do what they want and when they want.

As said, despite the fact that we are in the lucky situation that the Dev's are relatively close to the userbase and in terms of posting here, LFS is still their project and not ours. LFS is not a democracy.

Good ideas are always welcome in the improvements sections though.

I feel some user dont understand mi idea



Supose , the dev´s have 2 things ready to work , but they dont know what of the 2 things is good to put in the game in first place

So , dev´s create a tread poll , and ask to the ppl , what of the 2 things like it more to be made in first place

i dont tellings the comunity to choise from the "Suggested improvements log"

I hope explaine well now

1) The situation of the "devs having a limited set of things to do that they all feel indifferent about, not knowing which one to tackle first" practically never happens.

2) The community choice would be in most cases so obvious you don't need a poll.

Why does the community matter? LFS is "Scawen's baby", and always has been. I really don't think Scawen would care if every single member of this forum asked for NOS / Free Roam / {insert useless feature request here} etc, he would still decide what to add and when. Scawen (and the rest of the dev team) already have an idea of what they "want" from LFS - a realistic racing simulator simulating many different types of racing. That means that things like the tyres need to be tweaked, and that once the existing content is to a level that Scawen is "happy" with then more cars / tracks to be added.

I think part of the reason Scawen is so happy making LFS is because he got to leave a "machine" where he was just a cog and ordered to do things to being in control - he decides what he wants, and when, and how. I think that must be a big dream for a LOT of games programmers out there...

I like that idea.
But the devs want to do own things...

Quote from Waffenaffe :

I like that idea.
But the devs want to do own things...

This idea really has nothing to do with the devs wanting to do their own things though. Software development simply does not work like this.

I have to agree to what Android and Angry Angel said, also Scawen may start developing a new feature and get bored coding it in the middle of the process, not abandoning it but putting it in a stand by state and maybe start coding something that's is more important in the current stage of LFS' development, the same thing can happen with Eric's work, maybe there are two or three new tracks being developed at the same time, and forcing them to finish the work with a dead line would take away the genuine desire to make a better racing simulator thus resulting in a much more lower quality product.

I have just come off crunch, during the middle of which I moved house... I'm really jealous of Scawen's work-life balance right now.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I have just come off crunch, during the middle of which I moved house... I'm really jealous of Scawen's work-life balance right now.

What are you on about?

Quote from Jakg :

Why does the community matter? LFS is "Scawen's baby", and always has been. I really don't think Scawen would care if every single member of this forum asked for NOS / Free Roam / {insert useless feature request here} etc, he would still decide what to add and when. Scawen (and the rest of the dev team) already have an idea of what they "want" from LFS - a realistic racing simulator simulating many different types of racing.

Wait, Scavven manipulates economic models? Ever heard of supply and demand? There goes my economics lessons out of the window