Could you point out where I have been hypocritical?
Could you point out where I have been hypocritical?
google: how turbocharging works
Actually he stated that you were being "hyporcritical", get it straight!
To the guy above, since you have the literacy of a baboon (you know who you are) I can't be bothered to read much of what you ... "write", much less put any manner of confidence in your observations.
I can't believe people like this will be running the world one day. Can you imagine the company emails? "i wont 2 hav a meetin 2day in ur ofise get teh teem 2gethur 4 sum brane stormin or yer fyrd lolz11" :rolleyes:
Idiocracy is actually happening, isn't it.
...no, sadly I won't be taking any technical advice from this guy.
Yes, there are people who are even stupider then me. Surprising, isn't it?
lol i said
A little hyprocital from ur point of view means= that from ur side i can see how its a little hyprocital but thats besides the point my statement was ment to give you guys the realization that not everything works the same way as you have been tould or read!
and to Ball Bearing Turbo im guessing ur post was directed at me? if so who really gives a shit about trying to be professional on a public racing forums??:"?
:chairfallI lol'd!
I'm going to stop make senseless posts in this thread now.
awww why not ur on a role
and im enjoying this thus far
This is because the engine doesn't respond as fast as one with more than a fue performance bolt ons, if the whole inside of the engine has been replaced with stronger but lighter parts, the vacuum will not drop as much. It will still drop, but not as much, sometimes not enough to close the BOV.
This doesn't hurt anything since you don't need boost if you are just reving for kicks n' giggles.
However, from what I'm getting from what you people are saying about the turbos in LFS. There apears to be two problems, one is that the turbo lags alot, and the other is that they all act as if the car can maintain enough vacuum to prevent the boost from being used.
I'm not sure if the lag is just due to rotational inertia or what the deal is there. Vacuum disappears very quickly as illustrated by the digital boost gauge in the XRR, that part seems pretty correct. There doesn't appear to be any of the positive feedback aspect of turbocharging. As cylinder pressure increases so does the EGT (drastically) which creates a larger pressure differential between the inlet and outlet side of the turbine - which is the primary ingredient for spooling by a large factor.
In any event, I'm certain that the current model is just a very simplistic approximation of turbocharging, as is the engine simulation overall (per a different conversation with Scawen). It'll be improved one day.
In any event, I'm certain that the current model is just a very simplistic approximation of turbocharging, as is the engine simulation overall (per a different conversation with Scawen). It'll be improved one day.
You laugh, but a fair amount of the emails I get at work are like this.... it's enough to make you want to weep.
The sad part is, some schools are starting to allow the use of this for tests and assignments. One girl wrote a whole short story like that.
It's just getting mental now.
You can't be serious....
Do you have a link to any information on that? I find that very hard to believe...
Yes, this generation is pretty poor when it comes to grammar but to allow such mistakes and not punish those who take shortcuts and ultimately 'un-educate' themselves is just plain silly. Ever seen the movie Idiocracy? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)
Anyways, I think this, like 99% of the other suggestions, is something that will be addressed later. In my opinion this section of the forum is almost comical at this stage of LFS development. Sure, it is great to see what people want and what the community still wants to be fixed/added but after 4+ years I think the devs have a pretty good idea of what everyone would like, or atleast what the general concensus is.
This is a racing car, U don`t need turbo to work at low rpm, U need max boost at full throtle but it would be nice if they make somme kind of ALS for the FXR and XRR bcz they rely need the turbo to work.
1st of all, a turbocharger is an exponential chain reaction (more air in = more exhaust => even more air in), which in turn means that the "fade" in boost gain in the higher revs is totally wrong. Exhaust temperature has NOTHING to do with it! It's all about the dynamic exhaust manifold pressure vs exhaust turbine blade area. The wastegate is connected either electronically or mechanically to a pressurized area in the intake and is opened whenever the vacuum or pressure force overcomes a spring in an actuator.
I'll try to post a tranfer function for a turbocharged engine when I get home..
I'll try to post a tranfer function for a turbocharged engine when I get home..
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No, there's more:
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No, there's more:
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Which post are you laughing at?
I wasted 10 minutes of my life reading all of this :nerd: i'm pissed off now :irked:
lol
lol
Actually, you are dead wrong.
The turbine does not work like a pinwheel from the fair. Influent exhaust gas velocity has comparitively little to do with how much energy is dumped into the turbine, the larger component is the pressure differential across the turbine. The turbine is mainly driven by the expansion of gases inside the turbine. This is precisely why turbocharged vehicles benfit from larger exhaust systems since the pressure drop is greater and therefore spool times are shorter. This is also why the positive feed back effect you correctly mentioned happens - but not directly because of the increased flow as cylinder pressure rises; what rises with cylinder pressure? OH right, the EGT skyrockets - often causing the turbine housing to actually glow.
I don't care what any moron tells you, that is the truth.
If you don't think so... get ahold of a turbocharger, and try to spin it up with just air. Then try it with a blowtorch and see what happens
The stupid one above my previous post. And yours now. Hahahahahahahaha
Dude U just made-it catastrophicly boring, and wrong........no very wrong.
To the people who think explanation is boring, mark this thread as read and move along..
Then put bare piping between the compressor wheel and the exhaust turbine inlet, mount a fuel injector and a flare, spool up the turbo, start the fuel supply and ignite.. it WILL run by itself simply because of it's generating pressure by raising the temperature. It's exactly how a jet engine works.. So it's the pressure rise, not the temperature rise that drives the exhaust turbine. If there were some other way to increase the pressure (well, you could use another pressure supply but that would just ruin the whole idea), it would work aswell!
The reason a larger exhaust pipe system would improve spool-up is because it generates less backpressure on the exhaust turbine, thereby increase the difference in dynamic pressure between the manifold and the downpipe..
BBT: I agree with you, but the chain reaction IS there and it's why we have wastegates to route exhaust pressure outside the exhaust turbine.. And as you say, it's the expansion of gases (yes, we do use temperature to achieve that) that drive the turbo, not the temperature itself.
Then put bare piping between the compressor wheel and the exhaust turbine inlet, mount a fuel injector and a flare, spool up the turbo, start the fuel supply and ignite.. it WILL run by itself simply because of it's generating pressure by raising the temperature. It's exactly how a jet engine works.. So it's the pressure rise, not the temperature rise that drives the exhaust turbine. If there were some other way to increase the pressure (well, you could use another pressure supply but that would just ruin the whole idea), it would work aswell!
The reason a larger exhaust pipe system would improve spool-up is because it generates less backpressure on the exhaust turbine, thereby increase the difference in dynamic pressure between the manifold and the downpipe..
BBT: I agree with you, but the chain reaction IS there and it's why we have wastegates to route exhaust pressure outside the exhaust turbine.. And as you say, it's the expansion of gases (yes, we do use temperature to achieve that) that drive the turbo, not the temperature itself.
P1T1 = P2T2
Hotter gas is inherantly under more pressure in the same volume, hence it's symantecally correct to state that heat is the primary factor. Effluent velocity is higher than influent velocity because the turbine is not perfectly efficient. Ideally it would be the same and all the energy from the expansion would go into the turbine. What makes this all possible? Heat!
I'm realy considering making an animated diagram of the system, so people will stop mentioning wastegates and BOVs and trying to explain the function of each, and failing horribly at it.
A wastegate is on the exhaust side, a blow off valve is on the intake side.
The wastegate is used to contol boost. It is run by a pressure line going from the charge side of the turbo to the wastegate. Boost controlers just change the pressure on the wastegate, so you can obtain a higher boost before it opens, or limit boost by running a weaker spring in the wastegate and compensating for it with the controler when you need more boost.
Wastegates also prevent the turbo from overspeeding, which can cause damage or even failure. If you've ever seen a turbo explode, I can garantee it was because it was spinning faster than it was designed to.
Generaly high performance race cars won't need boost controlers, unless they are bracket racing drag cars. If you have a boost controler on a road car, it's simply for show and serves no function other than to say "I have a boost controler, I'm cool":rolleyes:
The blow off valve serves a completely different function and controls boost during throttle off, there are no servos or switches of any kind on the bov, just a single vacuum line going to the intake after the throttle plate.
A wastegate is on the exhaust side, a blow off valve is on the intake side.
The wastegate is used to contol boost. It is run by a pressure line going from the charge side of the turbo to the wastegate. Boost controlers just change the pressure on the wastegate, so you can obtain a higher boost before it opens, or limit boost by running a weaker spring in the wastegate and compensating for it with the controler when you need more boost.
Wastegates also prevent the turbo from overspeeding, which can cause damage or even failure. If you've ever seen a turbo explode, I can garantee it was because it was spinning faster than it was designed to.
Generaly high performance race cars won't need boost controlers, unless they are bracket racing drag cars. If you have a boost controler on a road car, it's simply for show and serves no function other than to say "I have a boost controler, I'm cool":rolleyes:
The blow off valve serves a completely different function and controls boost during throttle off, there are no servos or switches of any kind on the bov, just a single vacuum line going to the intake after the throttle plate.
Turbo charger improvement
(132 posts, started )
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