Quote from mcgas001 :

... I agree with David Cameron - Carry a knife and you go to prison!

After reading this thread, it got me thinking about knife crime in the UK.

Whats everyone's view on this?

To be honest, i think David Cameron has got it all wrong, yes carrying a knife is not acceptable, but why do people need to carry knifes anyway? all because of the gang culture, sending these people to prison is like cutting off your nose to spite your face, lets face it most of the people who are willing to carry a knife are low lifes with no jobs, so learning new ways to make money won't turn them away from crime. It May solve the problem short term, but in the long run it will become far worse . I know a few people who have been sent to prison for so called petty crime, whilst inside most have turned out to be smackheads some of them didn't even smoke the good stuff before they went in. The others, well they come out with the bible of criminal knowledge.

I know that the only way to solve this is at home and through education, but i still cant see the light at the end of the tunnel. neither party will be able to do jack sh*t to fix this problem... /rant

Part of me says we need to discovery the root cause of the problem and solve it through education.

The other part of me says lock em up and throw away the key............

If anyone thinks that any governments will ever fix problems like this, regardless of party, is deluded.

Many inner cities have now become ghettos, with minorities fighting minorites, this is where the majority of this type of crime comes from.

I have no answers, there is no solution for it, prison doesn't work, capital punishment doesn't work.........

National service?

Not sure turning little Johnny gansta into a trained killer is a good idea, but it's an option

I know what the problem is (in London anyway). Everyone knows what the problem is but im afraid its un pc to say it like it is, Thats why if you read media reports from any of the recent killings (Rob Knox, Jimmy Mizen, Ben Kinsella, David Idowu) you will not see a discription of the attacker. However as shown here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7492210.stm you can have a discription and a photo fit of the suspect. Freedom of speach?

Ohhhh, I know what you are getting at, trust me, it's not only Blacks who stab people..........

Oh, and it't not un-pc to say what you are getting at, it's ignorant.

I think the point is that it's the inner-city deprived areas where these things occur - and "the people" you refer to happen to be common there.

If you think about it in many ways it's actually handy for a government to have a certain percentage of criminals loose. And I don't mean that in a conspiracy theory scope.

Education is the answer: I've been knifed and what I learned in the process was sharp objects pass through flesh with little resistence, which is another way of saying they do a lot of damage without actually hurting or slowing you up.

However banning knives has lots of other repercussions. My fathers job is a bit like a caretaker, he's also a yachtsman, so he often carries "pen knives" and I gotta tell you some of those are nasty big and sharp combared to the little swiss things around when I was busy exposing myself to violent crime. He's less likely to knife you than your crazy grandad whith alzteimers, but ban knives in a blanket ban and he would be breaking the law and it would be hugely inconvenient for him to stop carrying them when engaged in or either side of being engaged in activities which require a knife. Should he be banned also?

Where do you draw the line at defining a knife, I mean, I pressume cuttelery will still be ok so somewhere we need a definition and a grey area will follow. So a blanket ban might sound good but let's hear the specifics first before we get all mob handed about it. I'm not gonna eat with chopsticks i'll tell yer that!

Let's face it, the people least likely to be bothered about knives being banned are the people who are currently deploying them in violent situations. Will banning them help in the slightest? It's already illegal to carry a screwdriver when not engaged in an activity that requires it - do we need more laws, or is that just a public relations political sound bite exercise. What we need is a way of tackling mob culture and putting the authorities back in control of the street - the way to do that is less paperwork and statistics checking, and more bobbies walking about doing community work.

+1 for Becky.

Despite what any victim's parents might say, there is only a certain type of person who feels the need to carry a knife. I never have, nor did any of my friends at school. Others at our high school might have, but we didn't know because we didn't hang around with them - meaning we were also unlikely to get stabbed by them.
I know a few people where I used to live that now carry weapons, but again they're not friends and they occupy that little gap between "swamp dirt" and "waste of space". Actually, I tell a lie - my best friend carried a flick once but never used it.

Isn't there a crazy stat that says if you carry a knife you're like 60% more likely to be killed by your own than anyone else's? I'm sure it's something like that. Obviously there's exceptions, but it's usually dodgy people or dodgy neighbourhoods, or sometimes a bit of both.

But you can't ban all knives. Not because it's impractical for anyone's employment or hobbies, but because it's just not possible. Flicks and penknives can be just as dangerous as a machete and they can be hidden everywhere. In fact, smaller ones are worse because you don't even see them coming.

Education and basic living standards are the biggest issue. But it won't make it go away. People always find a way to kill each other.

The trouble with criminalising knives is you just end with only criminals carrying knives - people who aren't likely to use them in anger won't be able to carry one, and people who are will keep on carrying one anyway. There was talk of banning under 18s from buying any kind of knives at all, but you end up with the ridiculous situation where a couple can get married, have children, buy a house but aren't deemed responsible enough to own cutlery for their kitchen.

I think a problem with a lot of young inner-city kids (the majority of the knife-crime perpetrators and victims) is that there's no role models for them to look up to that will persuade them that it's a bad idea. They have role models that encourage it, but any that discourage it are deemed 'uncool'.

It's the parents, IMO, responsibility for "yoofs" should start and end there.

Quote from danowat :

It's the parents, IMO, responsibility for "yoofs" should start and end there.

That's dangerous talk around here - some spoiled kid will tell you you're just rehashing TV-psychologists' babble.

But it's the parents job to know these things, too many parents don't care what their kids are up too, aslong as they aren't bugging them.

Quote from TAYLOR-MANIA :

I think the media coverage on all these recent knife crimes isn't really helping the situation a great deal.

Exactly.

I'm not saying knife crime is OK, or that it should exist. But the media, as always, controls what people think. Right now people are all against knife and what should be done etc etc. Give it two weeks and everyone will have forgotten and we'll be back to something else, fuel prices probably.

Does'nt alter the fact that the problem is there though does it

You know what the problem is really? At a base level? Rant mode is charging...

Society in general.

Doesn't matter whether it's guns or knives or sticks - people suck and they will find a way of killing other people if they really want to. Carrying a knife just speeds the process up. If it wasn't knives it'd be knuckle dusters or piano wire or baseball bats. You can buy and carry these things legally - try stopping that. Maybe not brass knuckles, but I don't know.

The fact that parents aren't allowed to punish their children any more is a massive factor. Kids get away with whatever they want at home, they think they can do the same outside. The threat of a smacked arse was enough to stop me doing bad shit. And again there's a big difference between a slap on the butt and physical abuse, but that doesn't seem to matter. Because obviously the Naughty Step works f*cking wonders, doesn't it.

And kids having kids. If you've never experienced discipline or you're still a rebellious kid yourself, how can you possibly expect to enforce it on your own children? You can't, so the younger parents get, the more out of control the following generation is simply because they don't understand how to behave. Again, there's exceptions, but that's the majority rules. Get on any bus for proof (especially round here - that #263 brings out my murderous rage).

And the bridge in society between the rich and the poor. The poorer people get, the more resentful they are when they can't afford life's priviledges. The more they hate society, the more they fight against it. Anti-social behaviour and complete lack of respect for anyone follows.

These are big generalisations, but they're also based on my own experience throughout my young adult life. And that's in the Scottish middle of nowhere rural villages, the medium-sized city of Derby and here in big old London. We're at a stage in society now where I'm not even convinced that anything will help that much. You know when a fire gets to a certain stage it's easier to just let it burn itself out than risk trying to extinguish it? That's my opinion of the UK. The government's f*cked up, the people are f*cked up, the laws are f*cked up.

Education is a step in the right direction. It leads to higher rates of employment, higher incomes and better quality of living. But is it enough? I remain hopeful but unconvinced.

[Man that was a rant. I hate people. You may have figured that out. Not individually, but as a mass. Average intelligence is inversely proportional to population. You guys are okay, don't take it personally ]

Quote from danowat :

Does'nt alter the fact that the problem is there though does it

Nope not at all, didn't mean to belittle it. However I do think once it's out of the public eye there will be less push to solve it, as with a lot of things.

It's apathy, no one feels they can do anything about it, so they don't even try.

In general, no one gives a flying fig about their "fellow man", I wouldn't even trust a member of the general public to piss on me to put me out if I was on fire.

You just have to look at the way some people act while driving, no respect for anyone, and I think that the internet is breeding a whole generation with a severe lack of personal social skills, so the problem worsens.

We're doomed........DOOMED I SAY

When it comes to gangs of children knifing people and kids going feral on estates and destroying everyone and everything around them, then yes, lock em all up and throw away the key. Had enough of the liberal, whinging class moaning on about how it's all due to a lack of opportunities and deprivation or because we don't give them a chance or invest enough in them.

Bullshit. They're scum. And scum breeds more scum.

Scum isn't interested in education - you can't educate people that don't want to learn. They're not deterred by some soft-touch community service or supervisory order. Words and morals are not part of their life. Violence is.

Instead of the police going all PC and recruiting ethnically diverse men and women from all backgrounds, they should be recruiting large, strong young men, preferably ex-forces, that can not only defend themselves and others with ease, but also smash a few noses and break the odd bone. The legal system should come down like a ton of bricks on juveline delinquents, instead of allowing them to sue people who's property they're vandalising, or escaping serious assault charges on technicalities. Prison time should be hard and unforgiving - a nightmare filthy hellhole of a place with sadistic guards; a place that will frighten young people into avoiding a life of crime.

Sounds brutal? I guess so. But let's face it, the velvet gloves "ooh don't touch them, those poor deprived angels" approach is hardly working.

(EDIT) Forgot to add that the reason for that little rant is that I think the current epidemic of knife crime is an extension of the existing breakdown in law and order and respect for others.

Quote from Dajmin :

You know what the problem is really? At a base level? Rant mode is charging...

Society in general.

Doesn't matter whether it's guns or knives or sticks - people suck and they will find a way of killing other people if they really want to. Carrying a knife just speeds the process up. If it wasn't knives it'd be knuckle dusters or piano wire or baseball bats. You can buy and carry these things legally - try stopping that. Maybe not brass knuckles, but I don't know.

The fact that parents aren't allowed to punish their children any more is a massive factor. Kids get away with whatever they want at home, they think they can do the same outside. The threat of a smacked arse was enough to stop me doing bad shit. And again there's a big difference between a slap on the butt and physical abuse, but that doesn't seem to matter. Because obviously the Naughty Step works f*cking wonders, doesn't it.

And kids having kids. If you've never experienced discipline or you're still a rebellious kid yourself, how can you possibly expect to enforce it on your own children? You can't, so the younger parents get, the more out of control the following generation is simply because they don't understand how to behave. Again, there's exceptions, but that's the majority rules. Get on any bus for proof (especially round here - that #263 brings out my murderous rage).

And the bridge in society between the rich and the poor. The poorer people get, the more resentful they are when they can't afford life's priviledges. The more they hate society, the more they fight against it. Anti-social behaviour and complete lack of respect for anyone follows.

These are big generalisations, but they're also based on my own experience throughout my young adult life. And that's in the Scottish middle of nowhere rural villages, the medium-sized city of Derby and here in big old London. We're at a stage in society now where I'm not even convinced that anything will help that much. You know when a fire gets to a certain stage it's easier to just let it burn itself out than risk trying to extinguish it? That's my opinion of the UK. The government's f*cked up, the people are f*cked up, the laws are f*cked up.

Education is a step in the right direction. It leads to higher rates of employment, higher incomes and better quality of living. But is it enough? I remain hopeful but unconvinced.

[Man that was a rant. I hate people. You may have figured that out. Not individually, but as a mass. Average intelligence is inversely proportional to population. You guys are okay, don't take it personally ]

I wouldn't be so firm in your claims about parents and what not. Go read The Nurture Assumption before you make some brash statements.

We are probably going through the least violent period in out history. The UK was created via intense violence. We have been through 2 World Wars, and multiple other conflicts.... for thousands of years

Then there was punks/rockers/mods in the 50s 60s 70s. As a 'society' we really haven't changed that much.

All a parent can do IMO is try and live in an more affluent area where there are more opportunities for someone young. Trying to instil 'discipline' in an area as deprived as some areas in the UK is just complete fantasy.

Quote from Intrepid :

All a parent can do IMO is try and live in an more affluent area where there are more opportunities for someone young. Trying to instil 'discipline' in an area as deprived as some areas in the UK is just complete fantasy.

Total crap, I was brought up on a rough council estate in Essex, but my mum tought us what was right, and what was wrong.

I did well at school, got a decent job, and now live a decent life.

It's down to the individual to climb out of the swamp, if they want, blaming your surrounds is a lazy excuse at best.

Ah - here we go again with the "nurture vs nature" debate.

So essentially people are genetically predisposed to knifing. I bet a lot of people will sigh in relief and the "afflicted" ones will just shrug it off "man, I can't help it, it's in my DNA to cut you up".

'Problem you guys have over there is that you don't have guns. Bangy bangy, knife problem goes away. Okay, that was a bit of a rouse, nobody should have to fear for their safety while walking down the street. Frankly, I don't leave the house without my knife. I use it multiple times every day. However, I get just as much use out of the scissors as the blade.

Most states over here have laws concerning they types of knives that may be carried, as well as blade length. I think a knife is thought of more as a tool than a weapon over here (at least in the sensible areas of the country). Though I think people in the city would question a guy wearing a six inch hunting blade on his hip. Counterpoint is that I don't even bat an eye (friendly wave, okay) to the person in full camo with a rifle walking down the road in the Stat Game Lands. Everything has a time and place.

Perhaps those hoods should have to face a choice of straigthening out, jail. I don't know, I don't really claim to know since I don't face the same issues that you guys to.

Quote from xaotik :

Ah - here we go again with the "nurture vs nature" debate.

So essentially people are genetically predisposed to knifing. I bet a lot of people will sigh in relief and the "afflicted" ones will just shrug it off "man, I can't help it, it's in my DNA to cut you up".

Is that your argument!? That's not what I said, and you are trying to make the argument black and white to suit your own ends just like a UK tabloid.