Well the way I see it, I preffer to drive the FXO so i'm going to stick with it, and there's no reason to slow me up because I can do that all by myself. I got platinum, so I dont mind what happens :P
Yes you do
(btw no hotlapping RB4 !!!)No we don't.
Not unless it has changed and the CTRA site hasn't been updated.
The only reason I say that I think it's still there is because Al got lots more points for coming 2nd in the RB4 than I did for winning in the FXO
If you have more points than him you will score a lower amount, also yellows etc.
100points to your 58 i think it was Danowat. But in a few races that i had i did notice that i on average collected higher points then those competeing in the FXO.
I could be mistaken and that the climbing through the field gave me the bonus points im not sure.
I could be mistaken and that the climbing through the field gave me the bonus points im not sure.
Unless Sam has changed it you score no points for gaining places. I regard it as a rather poor method of attributing reward - it sounds great until you look at the figures it produces: With midfielders and backmarkers who managed little more than to limp around keeping it on the black stuff scoring as much as podium finishers, I dont see what logic allows somebody who qualifies badly to score more points, I really dont.
Nope, we haven't changed that for the reasons Becky lists. In V1, we are occasionally reversing the grid and analysing subsequent progression through the field, but that's specifically for the purposes of periodically gathering field position rise and fall as a metric. In CTRA, we don't reverse the grid at any point and so the ability to float that metric and use it intelligently isn't available. 
Until we've established the relationship between the cars over the majority of tracks, I'd rather not tamper with the points system. When I do (if it's required) I want to do it one time for Patch Z. Considerations are winnability and popularity, and the aim will be to manipulate the field to average out the use of all 3 TBO cars.. because the best racing happens when all 3 are involved from start to finish.
That's true but it should be competitive on ALL tracks. The way it is now, the XRT and especially the RB4 stand no chance on tracks with at least one long straight.
And tyres come into play, indeed. At least with the RB4, the front tyres are bright red after 4 or 5 laps on most tracks if you drive the way you have to in order to at least keep up a bit with the FXO.
I'd like to see a comparison of the lap records for the TBO class from pre- and post-patch Z. I'm sure, the time differences are higher.
I really wonder why the devs made the FXO the fastest car in the TBO class. FXR is the easiest car in the GTRs and it's the slowest because of that.
Well its the same as for the FXO.
You must push (red tyres after 4-5 minutes) to be competive against the majority of fast (CTRA)-drivers.
Push it (the front tyres) too far and your lap-times will increase slowly but steady...
... it´s the same old story
The FXO is definitly fastest car in TBO in everything: Braking, cornering, Top speed, acceleration.
Latly i just started to notice, while i am [XRT] coming out of corner together with FXO - it flies away,like it has extra 20 horse power.
Since its lightest car, keep it fastest in Braking,fastest in cornering, but take off some Power. Because it's impossible to keep on on most tracks with FXO only because it's superior sides.
i see FXO accelerates faster than XRT even after 200 kph, it's a shame
Imho: the hardest cars to control have to be with little advantage, and not easiest.
And as was proposed above to take off 3% of power restriction in FXO looks that it'll not change alot.[from expirience].
In if i am not wrong, Patch X30 etc - the FXO had lots of weight balast and 3% restriction.Only then it was even...
This time it looks like 8 to 10% needed to make them competetive class.
Any possibility the CTRA will make this restriction Mandatory on the server?
Because it's just not fun to race cars that you can't get, and to take FWD not fun [ sorry to fwd lovers]
Latly i just started to notice, while i am [XRT] coming out of corner together with FXO - it flies away,like it has extra 20 horse power.
Since its lightest car, keep it fastest in Braking,fastest in cornering, but take off some Power. Because it's impossible to keep on on most tracks with FXO only because it's superior sides.
i see FXO accelerates faster than XRT even after 200 kph, it's a shame
Imho: the hardest cars to control have to be with little advantage, and not easiest.
And as was proposed above to take off 3% of power restriction in FXO looks that it'll not change alot.[from expirience].
In if i am not wrong, Patch X30 etc - the FXO had lots of weight balast and 3% restriction.Only then it was even...
This time it looks like 8 to 10% needed to make them competetive class.
Any possibility the CTRA will make this restriction Mandatory on the server?
Because it's just not fun to race cars that you can't get, and to take FWD not fun [ sorry to fwd lovers]
Here's what's currently floating around my head after doing some races today, and a few test laps last week.
I've found that driving the RB4 on any track with a straight means you need to prepare for FXOs coming past. Driving Aston Cadet tonight in the RB4 was a struggle to keep up. Switched to an FXO and it was far easier. One particular RB4 pilot could keep me from passing, but it took the tiniest mistake and that was that.
I'm thinking that adding a weight penalty will be the first step. I expect we'll try out some restrictions in a few test races first, but I also want to see what happens on endurance day. Do the FXOs streak out, but then have to pit/slow right down to make it through the race? I'm about a second a lap slower on Aston Cadet in the RB4, but I could drive that all day with "green" tyres. I couldn't do that in the FXO.
I can feel a poll coming on...
I've found that driving the RB4 on any track with a straight means you need to prepare for FXOs coming past. Driving Aston Cadet tonight in the RB4 was a struggle to keep up. Switched to an FXO and it was far easier. One particular RB4 pilot could keep me from passing, but it took the tiniest mistake and that was that.
I'm thinking that adding a weight penalty will be the first step. I expect we'll try out some restrictions in a few test races first, but I also want to see what happens on endurance day. Do the FXOs streak out, but then have to pit/slow right down to make it through the race? I'm about a second a lap slower on Aston Cadet in the RB4, but I could drive that all day with "green" tyres. I couldn't do that in the FXO.
I can feel a poll coming on...
well - we have had at least 2 enduro days since the TBO server has come back and i don't think i've seen anyone make any pit stops...but not sure that as1 was on the rotation that day - certainly at other tracks there is not an issue with making tyres last 30 minutes - its all down to preparation....... well what I mean of course - someone with a hl setup WILL have problems - people who change their tyre settings and drive sensibably will not.
If we are up for suggestions thou.... my 2 pence would be to slash the points that you get driving the FXO and give more to XRT then even more of RB4 (didn't we have this back in STCC days btw?)
This way, people who don't drive for points 'won't be affected' ie - they like driving the FWD then they can keep on driving it.... people who do drive for points then has the decision to earn it 2 ways... either slowly and surely with the FXO or by the multipliers on the XRT or RB4.
This way it keeps all the cars pure in terms of performance... afterall these are all 'standard' cars - if there is a REALY balancing issue in LFS then let LFS sort it out, not just the CTRA.
Finally - you could always change the results structure so that you have seperate results for FXO, XRT and RB4 (similar the GT1 and GT2 on Race 3) that way people in the other classes also have something to aim for..
Whadda you think? a valid idea or a crock of ......
I do not like the idea of separate results for the TBO cars, it would feel like racing alone in your class during the LRF/TBO race 2.
I was racing (struggling?) on AS2 with the RB4 yesterday, I usually prefer the XRT.
RB4 is no match for XRTs and even less FXOs on the straights there, but that may closer on a twistier track / FE, SO. Is that so?
I just wonder where the difference is coming from, is it due to the FXO being really faster or is it due to weird setups (far from realistic) creating oversteery FWD cars, exploiting the absence of limits to the setup options?
If we want to find out, I would suggest that we try a fixed suspension setup (or the choice between 2-3 official CTRA setups - neutral, understeer, oversteer) on this server for 1 day - based on good will as there is no solution to limit setup options server side to my knowledge.
I was racing (struggling?) on AS2 with the RB4 yesterday, I usually prefer the XRT.
RB4 is no match for XRTs and even less FXOs on the straights there, but that may closer on a twistier track / FE, SO. Is that so?
I just wonder where the difference is coming from, is it due to the FXO being really faster or is it due to weird setups (far from realistic) creating oversteery FWD cars, exploiting the absence of limits to the setup options?
If we want to find out, I would suggest that we try a fixed suspension setup (or the choice between 2-3 official CTRA setups - neutral, understeer, oversteer) on this server for 1 day - based on good will as there is no solution to limit setup options server side to my knowledge.
It's because it's more powerfull, and easier to drive.
This is turning into a bit of a pigs ear imo
First we ban the LRF cars (boooo
) at the whim of a few well known and voiciferous TBO drivers :irked:, and now we are gonna start with internal class balancing too?
It's all becoming too artificial for my liking
First we ban the LRF cars (boooo
) at the whim of a few well known and voiciferous TBO drivers :irked:, and now we are gonna start with internal class balancing too?It's all becoming too artificial for my liking
I think it is fair to say that
a) LRF was taken away from Race 2 to see if a dedicated TBO class would help populate the server. I.E. an experiment. This has been acheived. If for instance the server was un-populated then chances are the LRF's could have been re-introduced.
b) At present we are only at the discussion stage.
It is true that the TBO's need balancing, but that is likely to be a LFS issue rather than specific CTRA issue. Therefore within the discussion process we have to hear all sides of the arguements (both for and against) before then looking at Beta testing (whether or car classes or the X-system) before revamping the current Race 2 server.
Hopefully this clears up your mis-conceptions.
Subdividing TBO into separate classes ain't an option. I mean.. it COULD be done, but I ain't doing it! 
TBO are supposed to be able to play nicely with each other. The problem is that love for the RB4 or XRT is clearly not enough in the face of dominance from the FXO, and in recent days the number of FXOs on the track has been disproportionate in a class that's supposed to be balanced 3 cars wide.
It is an OPTION to let TBO be primarily FXO. Let's face it, GTR is predominantly FZR.. tis how it is. Perhaps the desire to see 3 cars of equal worth in a single class is actually an error. I'm resisting the massive gap between the cars because I'm assuming that this is bad, but at the end of the day as long as they're being driven by happy people...?
TBO are supposed to be able to play nicely with each other. The problem is that love for the RB4 or XRT is clearly not enough in the face of dominance from the FXO, and in recent days the number of FXOs on the track has been disproportionate in a class that's supposed to be balanced 3 cars wide.It is an OPTION to let TBO be primarily FXO. Let's face it, GTR is predominantly FZR.. tis how it is. Perhaps the desire to see 3 cars of equal worth in a single class is actually an error. I'm resisting the massive gap between the cars because I'm assuming that this is bad, but at the end of the day as long as they're being driven by happy people...?
Well I was just kinda speculating, and the crystal ball is a bit dusty atm
But if I had to put money on it, the same crew who managed to bin the LRF's will also get their way with a revamped TBO class
If that happens via LFS balancing then great, if its an X-system thing then that when I start to think its getting too contrived. Better off with points balancing than restrictions to penalise certain cars.
I'm not too shabby in the FXO on most combo's, but a skilled XRT driver will/can still be faster (ok, it was Palluka
)Whatever you guys decide, you can't keep everybody happy
ps - I am loving the fresh TBO Race 2, I just really liked the RAC as well and it's hard to find decent pick up races with it now
I don't know, I'm struggling to keep up with the FXO as it is, no need to make it even harder 
Then again, that's probably just my lack of skill in the TBO 
Seriously though, I agree that the FXO is the superior car, but an XRT or RB4 in the right hands can just as well win a race, as has been the case a lot of times when I was on the server. Those cars do require a lot of practise, skill and a good setup of course, but it's not like it's a hopeless battle when you're racing them, like some people seem to make it out to be.
EDIT: wow, 3 replies within the same minute
Then again, that's probably just my lack of skill in the TBO Seriously though, I agree that the FXO is the superior car, but an XRT or RB4 in the right hands can just as well win a race, as has been the case a lot of times when I was on the server. Those cars do require a lot of practise, skill and a good setup of course, but it's not like it's a hopeless battle when you're racing them, like some people seem to make it out to be.
EDIT: wow, 3 replies within the same minute
The sentimental part of me likes all 3 cars on the track at once, but the level headed part of me says, who really cares if it's a field full of FXO's, it's good racing, and thats all that matter.
It's a choice thing, people can drive the XRT or RB4 if they want, knowing that they will probably struggle, but if you love the car, who cares, give em more points for driving the less competitive car.
I wonder if we should have single make grids on rotation, special "feature" days, like the enduro day, XRT day, RB4 day, we know every other day is FXO day...........anything that doesn't involve CTRA having to do any balancing.
It's a choice thing, people can drive the XRT or RB4 if they want, knowing that they will probably struggle, but if you love the car, who cares, give em more points for driving the less competitive car.
I wonder if we should have single make grids on rotation, special "feature" days, like the enduro day, XRT day, RB4 day, we know every other day is FXO day
...........anything that doesn't involve CTRA having to do any balancing.But why should we be forced to drive the shite FWD car to be competative ?
It is absolutely NO FUN, compared to the XRT. You see what you've done...I'M WRITING IN CAPITALS...I'll be referring to balls next...
It is absolutely NO FUN, compared to the XRT. You see what you've done...I'M WRITING IN CAPITALS...I'll be referring to balls next...
@ HVS5b, in fairness we didn't ditch the LRF lightly. We kept it for a long time, despite the fact that absolutely nobody used it. I do mean literally. The logs were definitive on this, nobody (not even you) raced on that server for days at a time. Weeks, at one point. We kept LRF on Race 2 (originally TBO ONLY) to the detriment of that server.
We haven't returned to TBO-only at the whim of a few forumers at all. LRF was only on that server at the whim of a few forumers, the vast majority of whom clearly had absolutely no intention of following through by using it. It's gone from CTRA now, permanently. I made it clear at the time that it would be gone permanently if it wasn't used, and that it was in their hands to decide. To all intents and purposes the LRF crew voted to ditch it. The server records showed the truth of it all, and I am not going to accept revisionism on it.
We haven't returned to TBO-only at the whim of a few forumers at all. LRF was only on that server at the whim of a few forumers, the vast majority of whom clearly had absolutely no intention of following through by using it. It's gone from CTRA now, permanently. I made it clear at the time that it would be gone permanently if it wasn't used, and that it was in their hands to decide. To all intents and purposes the LRF crew voted to ditch it. The server records showed the truth of it all, and I am not going to accept revisionism on it.
100% possible. I can insert a mix of tracks and specific cars into the existing rotation. Forcing use of a car that a driver does not favour could cause them to either drop out of the server or fall in love with that car (every TBO car is adorable, if you're in a level field). When everyone is in that car, though, it's fun to go for it.
The effect would have to be monitored closely, and you need to know that any damage to the popularity of the server would be (I've found) slow to recover from. It would relieve some of the pressure to balance cars, though, so I'm interested to hear from people who would prefer no balancing, how they would feel about being forced into an RB4 or XRT for a couple of hours. Thoughts?
Ctra 2 (tbo)
(248 posts, started )
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