Believe me when you're doing an endu race you get all sweaty. After few hours of intensive driving you get totally wasted, mentally and physically
(This is specially shown up during summer)
But I don't know if you sweat that much.
Believe me when you're doing an endu race you get all sweaty. After few hours of intensive driving you get totally wasted, mentally and physically
(This is specially shown up during summer)
But I don't know if you sweat that much.
well disclaimer first, i've raced a single seater but my endurance experience is only in karts. tbh, the stuff Scawen is talking about sounded to me mostly like a setup issue, of course I wasnt there and wasnt driving it but from what he's saying it's like the car was too pointy and tight for him. A little toe out or castor adjustment may have made his driving experience less exhausting?
When a car is setup well and you're dialed in it drives easily and smoothly. It can be a bit rickety in a single seater as those things aren't exactly built like Bentleys, but it's a comfortable experience. When the setup isnt right it's like trying to tow a lorry with a tug-o-war rope and your only help is 2 members of the Swedish national syncronised swimming team, it's hard work and way more drama than it should be.
Until you've experienced your race car on a good day you'll never know quite what to make your setup aim for.
I think I saw some photos of him and his child in front of his monitor and in my opinion he uses G25
obviously its going to be a G25 :P
He was given a G25 (most sim-racing companies have been given at least one free-of-charge), and before them had a Momo Red with a TH2Go and 3x CRT's...
This is a pretty interesting thread to keep up on.
And yes dude, tell your parents or show them or somehow LET THEM KNOW. Just as Dac up herei too hate ignorance and have an extremely low tolerance for it :/
I am a 17 male living in the US, and a few years ago i came across something called "drifting". But was too busy trying to please my parents and family playing sports.
This didnt last long, as i already loved cars the want to pursue this new motorsport increased everytime i thought of it.
I was in about 7th grade then (or 8th cant remember), I am in 12th grade now and graduating this year, I will be going after my professional license in a few years.
My mother was just like your mother is, doesnt want me to deal with cars or anything or "flying around a track" as she states it....(hehe).
She has her reasons and yes they make sense coming from her view.
Point is man..if you want to do something..go after it.period.
Thx Scawen for the answer.
That Helps alot.
That Helps alot.
According to Logitech a little over 100% is better although there apparently is no real way of knowing which setting is best.
At 100% the forces are shaped with a slight exponential curve to decrease them round the centre in an effort to reduce wheel wobble while going straight. If you increase the setting slightly the curve will eventually become fully linear.
Well, when Tiff Niddell drove a few laps in a current F1 car he was totally shagged out; arms jelly and could hardly hold his head up. As a racing driver he had the skill to go fast but not the fitness any more. It's not just the force through the wheel (which is what confuses me a bit about Scawen's comments about amounts of FFB) is it? It's all the G-forces at high speed acting on your whole body including your arms that as Brundle says "suck the energy out of your body", even though this is nothing like as extreme as F1.
F1 is a law unto itself, I wouldnt claim to know what they're like to drive, and i've not much experience in single seaters either, just a bit - hopefully I have enough experience to draw comparisons from my karting where I do have a lot of track time.
It takes time to master each new car/formula you race in, and more importantly it takes experimentation and test sessions - it's days not hours that count as different environmental conditions give you a completely different feel behind the wheel even when your car settings are the same.
The first time I tried the FBM in LFS I thought "these cars are tight", then I tried somebody elses setup and realised I was attributing things to the car that where not specific to the vehicle, but the conditions under which I was driving.
You do raise one very valid point though - I was younger and fitter back when I was racing! Scawen's an old duffer like me now, and maybe that's a lot to do with it!
Probably best thing for confirmation is to get you in the real FBM too so we can compare your wet T-shirt (ahem, I mean er...for technical rigour and that). 
Funny, I have done that exactly since day one, after just a few minutes of testing out the FF in LFS. That works on all the wheels I have had. (Now G25 -two of them), had the DFP, Momo black, Formula force GT, etc, etc..
The only problem is when you lock the wheels going around a slow corner, the FF gets way too stiff when the brakes are locked for some reason. And as you said, when the car is standing still with brakes on and off- that is all messed up. LFS still has the best FF of any sim. Only RBR is close- or at the same level- but I haven't tried my iRacing invite yet- they say the FF in that sim is pretty good.
v1 is maybe one chance i might have to get in to motorsport , i mean i do karting , but i dont have the financial backing atm to carry on racing , i nearly got a sponsor to do the spanish national karting chaps , but nooo he had to pull out 2 weeks before the first event , so yea one ver good chance , but how will the calcualate lfs to RL drivers , cos there could be some very good lfs FBM drivers but they get in a real one and poo there pants , and vice versa , and what happens when the winner of v1 turns out to be 46 years old and 22 stone ? 
and i need some more info on events can some one steer me in that direction thanks .
regards
Jwardy
and i need some more info on events can some one steer me in that direction thanks .
regards
Jwardy
Agree, my thumb broke due too high FFB settings in LFS
so not recommended ^^Well i've entered V1 so you've every chance of seeing my wet shirt on TV! Well, that assumes that they select me based on my lovely personality because it wont be for my pace!
rly? dont think so 
Hello,my name is Alex.
I started learn driving/drifting with LFS from the very first time that LFS was out.With time, around 4 years - i had only LFS expirience with big physics/racing knowledge already.
2.5 years ago i bought a first FWD car[ Peugeot 106 Rallye] and tuned it's suspention exactly how i wanted by LFS comparation [many times were playing and experimenting with LFS Tweak then].
Then 1 year ago i bought a BMW and tuned all it's suspention, LSD etc and always had a question:
I am a very good drifter in LFS, would i Drift in real life?
Would i control the car same well?
How long will it take to learn a car?
The anwer is: Now i am a Drift King of Israel. LFS helped alot alot alot to get used and to Drive/Drift in real life on high level.
But not everything wasn't that easy. As we learn "to feel" the car by Steering wheel and Monitor picture - same there is a need to "learn to feel" real cars position while it's sliding. So it takes time.
There is one issue, that i always was wondering: in LFS with XRT it's very easy to oversteer, little steering turn and car already sliding. In my BMW i have Coilovers, Anti Rolls, LSD and still had a difference with LFS.
Untill i installed the Poleuretan Bushes - then everything became pretty same as LFS :-))
And it's easy to understand, because LFS probably doesn't have a "deadzone" in it's steering bushes [as a most cars have, some of them more,some of them less].
With every Patch of LFS physics gets more and more realistic.
The tires work better and better.
But still there are few things, that i really miss in LFS physics, that look to me obvious:
1)Tire sliding graph...if i am not wrong it's almost linear, despite in real life it's far from being Linear.While tire gets grip back after sliding - in real life you feel Sudden lots of grip. In real life - the more Tire speed differs from ground speed - the less grip there is.
For example, on wet try to take off with wheel spin - u'll notice that car almost not moving.
In LFS there is no difference[or almost no difference] if we take off with Huge wheelspin or without it.
2)The Turbo lag of TBO class [for example XRT turbo has full boost only after 4000-4200 rpm, and RB4 only at 5000 RPM].
Since this is 2000 cc engine and 14psi and 12 psi respectivly, 245 hp....it's Turbo should be not that huge, to spool so late.
It gives more fun/difficulty in racing, so the people have to think of Turbo Lag. But imho Turbo has to be at Full boost at around 3000-3300 RPM
3)The TBO class's FXO is faster than XRT and RB4 on any track [ please don't flame ]. So there are people that asking to balance it a bit by LFS core [instead of doing it manually at servers].At the moment its fastest in everything, braking,cornering ability, acceleration and even Top Speed [Like UFO
] Only very skilled XRT and RB4 drivers can somehow keeping up,but the car itself it too fast for the class.Scawen, great work, and very appreciated
Keep on doing a good job
sandersman2000 allready covered most of my thoughts about what to write in this post, so im gonna continue from where he stoped.
My real name is Akis im 28 and im living in Greece. My everyday car is a Silvia s14a which is mostly tuned in suspension and alignment than power and i have a quite good experience in drifting this specific car .What i can say from my experience is that LFS simulates my real life steering wheel at 90 % and im saying my steering wheel cause you cant feel the forces smells or hear sounds and everything that allready said before while playing lfs. What im usuing is 102% force feedback in drivers ( dont ask me about 102 its done the first time and left there :P 100 must be good to ) and all the other settings are as scawen said and 35 % FF in game for the XRT and 45 % in game for the XFG when racing on CTRA =) (There is a settings guide for g25 somewhere in the main page i think from where i found them too).
I cant speak about the single seaters cause i dont have any experience on them but what i can say especialy for the guys that dont own a car for every reason, is that lfs is so close to the real thing that when i play for some time im getting so adrenalin high that im going out for a ride with my car and when im back to home after all the drifting, i have the need to play again without have the feeling of "pff its just a game" but having the feeling of riding an almost real car thats gives me more than i ever thought a computer "game" will.
At this point i want to add something about the ppl speaking about improvement suggestion , first lets speak about rain.
Rain : In lfs drifting you can have the same exacly feeling of real life drifting on wet when you have your tires super heated lets say 150 temp + until 190 plus something where you pop them , i know that you front tires is not the same but the general feeling is the same
And lastly i want to speak about the only thing that bothers me with my real computer life car :P the XRT, the steering angle of the XRT is way smaller than my real lifes car even in stock form , and this is the only thing that hold me back from driving the XRT almost the same way i drive my real car cause in lfs if i get a quite good drift angle most of the times even though im in full lock i cant continue my slide ending in spin ( especialy with overheated tires ) or i can take my foot of the throttle and wait for my car to come back while losing speed exacly the opposite of what happening in real life where even if i got a quite big angle i can still have my throttle down and control my car with my steering wheel. I think steering angle is something that my XRT really needs
All my post is about my real life drifting experience and im not gonna answer to any post saying that lfs is for racing only etc. Both racing and Drifting can give you the thrill of doing something very exciting with your car
A knife can be used for slicing the bread ... some they use it to kill
My real name is Akis im 28 and im living in Greece. My everyday car is a Silvia s14a which is mostly tuned in suspension and alignment than power and i have a quite good experience in drifting this specific car .What i can say from my experience is that LFS simulates my real life steering wheel at 90 % and im saying my steering wheel cause you cant feel the forces smells or hear sounds and everything that allready said before while playing lfs. What im usuing is 102% force feedback in drivers ( dont ask me about 102 its done the first time and left there :P 100 must be good to ) and all the other settings are as scawen said and 35 % FF in game for the XRT and 45 % in game for the XFG when racing on CTRA =) (There is a settings guide for g25 somewhere in the main page i think from where i found them too).
I cant speak about the single seaters cause i dont have any experience on them but what i can say especialy for the guys that dont own a car for every reason, is that lfs is so close to the real thing that when i play for some time im getting so adrenalin high that im going out for a ride with my car and when im back to home after all the drifting, i have the need to play again without have the feeling of "pff its just a game" but having the feeling of riding an almost real car thats gives me more than i ever thought a computer "game" will.
At this point i want to add something about the ppl speaking about improvement suggestion , first lets speak about rain.
Rain : In lfs drifting you can have the same exacly feeling of real life drifting on wet when you have your tires super heated lets say 150 temp + until 190 plus something where you pop them , i know that you front tires is not the same but the general feeling is the same
And lastly i want to speak about the only thing that bothers me with my real computer life car :P the XRT, the steering angle of the XRT is way smaller than my real lifes car even in stock form , and this is the only thing that hold me back from driving the XRT almost the same way i drive my real car cause in lfs if i get a quite good drift angle most of the times even though im in full lock i cant continue my slide ending in spin ( especialy with overheated tires ) or i can take my foot of the throttle and wait for my car to come back while losing speed exacly the opposite of what happening in real life where even if i got a quite big angle i can still have my throttle down and control my car with my steering wheel. I think steering angle is something that my XRT really needs
All my post is about my real life drifting experience and im not gonna answer to any post saying that lfs is for racing only etc. Both racing and Drifting can give you the thrill of doing something very exciting with your car
A knife can be used for slicing the bread ... some they use it to kill
Forgot to add these things, what ZzeCoOl said is fully right.
The Feelings from G25 are almost the same,as i get in Bimmer.
The Drifting reflexes that i learnt on 720 degrees are 1 to 1 same for the Bimmer, that i drift/drive. 900 degrees feel odd and don't fit the real life hand reflexs [maybe in other cars with longer steering rack it will].
Drifting in rain is very similar to drifting on very hot tires in LFS [yeah], and demands most feeling from the driver [very important skill]. Throttle control, immidiate steering work and planning next steps at each moment.
About Max Steering Lock, that is currently at 36 degrees at most RWD cars: in real life this angle is bigger. In the BMW the inner wheel turns on 36 degrees, and outer on 44 degrees [that is in total [36+44)/2 = 40 degrees]
Every weekend, that i went to track driving/drifting in real car - i came home, started playing LFS and it worked, like i did it forever.
And vice versa, after LFS practice/playing, the moment, when i get into real life car - it feels very connected to the hands,legs and brains.
About people who don't like Drifting or have something against: Let's live in peace.It's just parallel worlds, that IMO everyone should know to perform. Each skill of Racing/Drifting helps to the main Driving skill.
Let's say - each driving in Racing faces situations of oversteer and should know how to handle it[and in best case - to know,how not to lose speed from this].IMHO, racers who can't handle oversteer - can't be a racers [each time they get to oversteer from some reason, bumping,crash etc - there must be total control].
And as ZzeCoOl told here - ti depends who do you use drifting:
Or it's performed on dedicated servers, or while not disturbing noone, or to recover from crashing yourself and other people.
It all depends on how you apply it
Scawen, what do you think about the issues that were written above? [Laggy Turbo,Tires graph,FXO restriction and Steering lock]
Thanks
The Feelings from G25 are almost the same,as i get in Bimmer.
The Drifting reflexes that i learnt on 720 degrees are 1 to 1 same for the Bimmer, that i drift/drive. 900 degrees feel odd and don't fit the real life hand reflexs [maybe in other cars with longer steering rack it will].
Drifting in rain is very similar to drifting on very hot tires in LFS [yeah], and demands most feeling from the driver [very important skill]. Throttle control, immidiate steering work and planning next steps at each moment.
About Max Steering Lock, that is currently at 36 degrees at most RWD cars: in real life this angle is bigger. In the BMW the inner wheel turns on 36 degrees, and outer on 44 degrees [that is in total [36+44)/2 = 40 degrees]
Every weekend, that i went to track driving/drifting in real car - i came home, started playing LFS and it worked, like i did it forever.
And vice versa, after LFS practice/playing, the moment, when i get into real life car - it feels very connected to the hands,legs and brains.
About people who don't like Drifting or have something against: Let's live in peace.It's just parallel worlds, that IMO everyone should know to perform. Each skill of Racing/Drifting helps to the main Driving skill.
Let's say - each driving in Racing faces situations of oversteer and should know how to handle it[and in best case - to know,how not to lose speed from this].IMHO, racers who can't handle oversteer - can't be a racers [each time they get to oversteer from some reason, bumping,crash etc - there must be total control].
And as ZzeCoOl told here - ti depends who do you use drifting:
Or it's performed on dedicated servers, or while not disturbing noone, or to recover from crashing yourself and other people.
It all depends on how you apply it
Scawen, what do you think about the issues that were written above? [Laggy Turbo,Tires graph,FXO restriction and Steering lock]
Thanks
Agree. Actually tire graphs in LFS are far from being linear and look pretty normal. But something wrong with that thouhg. I've always been wondering
about that grip regaining, when slip angle go to zero after sliding.
In LFS that moment feels very soft, non precise and unrealistic.
In real life there is a sharp and springy effect when you pass zero angle, getting sudden lots of grip. Even on road cars with road tyres.
In other words, in LFS we have too low grip in low slip angles and too much grip in high slip angles. That tends to easy and grippy drift but to sliding in grip races
And in LFS it always was too easy to catch the car from critical conditions
because of that low difference of grip(it's impossible to give a car a sharp impulse first and then to loose much grip).
But lateral tire graph looks OK. I suspect the main problem is longitudal
tire behaviour.
But i still prefer LFS
Sorry for my english.
Sure that 14 is not too old. Tomas Enge started his career in 16 (he was almost 17 iirc)
From my karting experience I think LFS is very close in terms of simulation, but your experience as driver is missing all those forces, smell and heat Scawen was talking about. I'm not very fit, after doing lot of karting on weak 6.5BHP karts I can drive them 1+ hour without problem, most of ordinary people can NOT do this, they are aching after 10 or 20min ... but after spending 10min in ~12BHP kart I was exhausted and trembling anyway (second 20min session went better, but still I was unable to push all the time)... I can't imagine myself in FBM without several weeks of body building.
The question what would BF1 do to your sweating is pointless. You would either drive slow in corners (under 2G) and it would be same to FBM, or you would be either deadly exhausted after first (maybe two or three if you not a programmer like me) lap or you would eventually die just behind the wheel if your heart is not very ok. (I'm speaking about ordinary person who doesn't drive race cars at all, so their muscles on hands/ribs/neck are not ready for this kind of load)
Once you are fit enough to sit into F1 (that means weeks of special training to a point where driving FBM all day is fun for you and you feel just a bit tired after that), you will surely not sweat that much anymore.
But 3-4G are insane, don't underestimate those, human body "as is" is not ready for them. Especially your rib/stomach muscles and neck would tell you some very very ugly words I can't publish here. Hands can be trained to some extent without driving, but until you drive at 3G in corner, you have no idea how many small muscles are on your chest.
Also I have some limited and fresh driving experience with road car in car traffic... and while the handling in LFS is similar, I had to relearn to feel the car completely from scratch, in LFS I can react to monitor picture and sounds much better than in real life, for example when I oversteer in real and I hear tires sliding, the reaction on wheel is not as automatic, exact and effective as in LFS, where I compensate almost instantly and accurately.
But the biggest problem is road traffic. You can't simulate the rich visuals of real life yet, road signs being covered by bushes so you see that damn "40" limit 2sec before going by at 70, and it's much easier to constantly check mirrors and front view when they are on single LCD screen, in real life I often don't recognize movement in mirrors, when I'm focused on front view, which is much broader than 17" of LCD. So I often feel like half-way blind in real car when compared to LFS and I had to train my vision a lot during driving license course to be not immediatelly dangerous to others in RL.
The question what would BF1 do to your sweating is pointless. You would either drive slow in corners (under 2G) and it would be same to FBM, or you would be either deadly exhausted after first (maybe two or three if you not a programmer like me) lap or you would eventually die just behind the wheel if your heart is not very ok. (I'm speaking about ordinary person who doesn't drive race cars at all, so their muscles on hands/ribs/neck are not ready for this kind of load)
Once you are fit enough to sit into F1 (that means weeks of special training to a point where driving FBM all day is fun for you and you feel just a bit tired after that), you will surely not sweat that much anymore.
But 3-4G are insane, don't underestimate those, human body "as is" is not ready for them. Especially your rib/stomach muscles and neck would tell you some very very ugly words I can't publish here. Hands can be trained to some extent without driving, but until you drive at 3G in corner, you have no idea how many small muscles are on your chest.
Also I have some limited and fresh driving experience with road car in car traffic... and while the handling in LFS is similar, I had to relearn to feel the car completely from scratch, in LFS I can react to monitor picture and sounds much better than in real life, for example when I oversteer in real and I hear tires sliding, the reaction on wheel is not as automatic, exact and effective as in LFS, where I compensate almost instantly and accurately.
But the biggest problem is road traffic. You can't simulate the rich visuals of real life yet, road signs being covered by bushes so you see that damn "40" limit 2sec before going by at 70, and it's much easier to constantly check mirrors and front view when they are on single LCD screen, in real life I often don't recognize movement in mirrors, when I'm focused on front view, which is much broader than 17" of LCD. So I often feel like half-way blind in real car when compared to LFS and I had to train my vision a lot during driving license course to be not immediatelly dangerous to others in RL.
Ped7g - you sound like the reason insurance companies charge youngesters so much money for a years cover
imo, that kid is just rich as hell, not really talented imo.. ofcause hes a good driver, but money talks.
Scawen, please read it. This guy summed it up perfectly.
LFS v Reality - soon will be answered:)
(78 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG