In the light of the recent discussion about the TBO class on Race 2 it looks like the FXO is overpowered/underweight or generally faster than the RB4 or XRT. See discussion starting here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=853982#post853982

Do you agree? Do you think the FXO needs weight/power/both restrictions?

Please post with a) what you usually drive, b) how much of the restriction you voted for (if you voted for one) and c) why you think that is fair.

If you think there shouldn't be any change please post why. Have I missed the FXOs weakness? Do certain tracks suit it, but not others?

Don't be shy, but please keep this an interesting/technical discussion. I'm serious about getting your opinion on this, and I'll be weilding my thread-pruning shears with gusto to get rid of spam, pointless or unhelpful posts.

I drive the FXO, on short races I loose a lot of places at the start that i'm not fast enough to fully recover. My lap times might be faster than if I was in an RB4 or XRT but the standard of racing on Race 2 is very high and passing all the places I lose at the start is difficult over a short race.

I'm not the fastest FXO driver in the field since I re-started playing LFS a bit lately though so maybe i'm not the best judge.

Personally I dont need a restriction to stop me winning!

I've not yet voted, I wait to have my opinion swayed.

I voted no restrictions. I've just started racing on Race2 and It appears to me that the FXO's are not overly dominant. I can't provide any real feedback though. I'm not nearly as fast as I need to be to compare the three cars.

I drive the XRT myself, and the only thing wrong with FXO is its ridiculous acceleration off the corners. If a small (SMALL) restriction can be done to keep that from happening then I am all for it. If not then I don't see a need in a restriction.

The RB4 is faster than the FXO off the line, but from the first corner onwards, for any FXOs you get past, it's then just a game of defence. There is no actual defence against the FXO's speed, really, only track blocking.. and it's just a waiting game until the RB4's tyres heat up, the car drifts too wide in a corner and the FXO sails past. On endurance day, this is going to be compounded because a smaller percentage of the race for the RB4 will be spent in defence.

It just seems blindingly obvious that the FXO needs holding back somehow. I think TBO is fun if everyone has a chance. It's no fun if the FXO dominates all races. I don't think a points hindrance is going to cut it, because the fact is that the desire to win a race is more strong than the desire to earn points. It's going to have to be a restriction-based solution.

The FXO deffo needs a power restriction. maybe 3-7% intake restriction?

I drive XRT and TBO *ouch* It doesn't bother me
I try to compete with other XRT drivers ,failing miserably ATM but therein lies the fun, XRT is difficult to drive, to easy to over drive and so very rewarding.

Others get fun and rewards from other aspects of LFS viva la difference.

If there is a problem with the TBO's on LFS, let LFS sort it out, not localised or individually on the CTRA system.

I voted no restriction and put all my suggestions in that other post.

Quote from Dru :

If there is a problem with the TBO's on LFS, let LFS sort it out, not localised or individually on the CTRA system.

I voted no restriction and put all my suggestions in that other post.

I do agree however.. Who knows when the next patch will be And who knows if it will address this issue. I'm sure the Dev's know and are working on this but who knows where this is on their list of priorities.

I guess this depends on how big of an issue all of the ctra racers feel this is.

Ideally, LFS should really re-balance the TBO class. It would be far more preferable than us having to enforce weight or intake.

No restrictions, if you want to balance them, balance them with points, it shouldn't be down to CTRA to balance the cars, it should be down to the devs.

Maybe even think about some other sort of handicapping?, howabout a lap-scaled time penalty, e.g. FXO +30 sec, XRT + 15 sec, RB4 +0?, or some sort of grid position penalty?.

I hate restrictions with a passion, I would prefer points multipliers like back in the day as Dan mentioned.

This way people can still use laps on CTRA servers as practice for any upcoming events they may be in, and setups you find about the place will not need tweaking for a handicapped car.

I voted no restrictions.
It is not entirely correct as I would like to see some restrictions in the setup options (preventing extreme setups), preventing the FXO from becoming ovesteery. It seems to me that the standard understeery FXO does not have such a huge advantage over the other 2 cars.
It is not possible to enforce a server side setup restriction to my knowledge but I hope LFS will evolve and make it impossible to tune all car this way.

I voted no restrictions because, as someone else stated earlier, although the FXO is superior overall, it's not overly dominant to the point that trying to win in an XRT or RB4 is an exercise in futility. It can be done, it's just harder.

I think the reason why the majority on Race2 drive the FXO is simply because it's easiest to drive, not because it's the fastest. Hell, I'm definitely not very fast in the FXO. And from my experience on Race2 there's usually a few XRT's and/or RB4's in the top positions as well, so they are capable of keeping up with the FXO. They just need a lot of practise, skill and a good set (as I said in the other thread).

I wouldn't have a problem with a points balancing, but then again I don't think that would solve the "problem" of most people driving the FXO. The balancing needs to be done within LFS itself, by the devs.

I don't see why everyone thinks that the XRT, RB4 and FXO should be equal anyway, they will never be equal and IMO it's a futile excercise trying to do so.

Most times I use XRT and I voted for no restriction.

FXO is easier to drive fast. But as some ppl demonstrate its possible to compete with XRT and RB4.
And if I want to have "fair" chances I could also take the FXO - as anyone else could do.
But I like to drive XRT even if I cant win against some FXO drivers.

What I dont understand is: on starting grid FXO is so much slower at acceleration, but in race its faster out every corner (could it be just my bad cornering?)

Atm FXO seems to be faster - no matter wich track. But if there comes a balancing it should be from lfs, not CTRA.

Quote from -Willi- :

What I dont understand is: on starting grid FXO is so much slower at acceleration, but in race its faster out every corner (could it be just my bad cornering?)

FWD don't launch well, the weight is transferred to the rear reducing the grip of the driven wheels. Not as significant when moving, also the FXO being lighter can carry more apex speed, and getting on the gas too early results in a slightly wider line rather than facing the wrong way.

I voted no, and totally agreed with Becky.
On longer races the FXO's front tyres almost always get overheated, and you have to drive slower to keep the tyre alive. So IMO FOX became slower than the othe TBOs.

As I see it, it’s a decision on what you want the TBO class to be, at the moment the fxo is just way to strong, there is absolutely no race between the classes as it is right now, if you want a versatile TBO class where the different character of the differences in the cars 4wd, Rwd and Fwd, it need to be balanced out.
So if you just want a Fxo train then doesn’t call it the TBO class, for that it is not.

I really wonder, why so many people voted against Restriction, even if it's obvious that FXO is much faster, and it's not a question.
Willi - you are super fast driver, there are not many that can handle XRT like you, and you still struggle to be in the top.

If everyone of you enter a server while there is a racing with good drivers,most of time u'll see FXO, FXO, FXO and so on in the Top.
Yes,there are XRT and RB4 with skilled drivers, but you HAVE to be really ultra-skilled driver to keep up somehow.
FXO is just obvious faster in everything you can think about.
It's tire wear is not a question too. FXO with 100 degrees tires still make a Lap time, like XRT with 75 degrees tires [or even less].
People who talk about Start disadvantage....it's only 1-2 seconds off a long 15-20 minutes race.

I voted for Power restriction, and strongly asking to apply it, at least on the CTRA server [sure LFS should do it, but meanwhile...we Race everyday on our lovely CTRA].
About 5-10% restriction will still make FXO fast enough, i am sure.

On corner exits FXO is flying away and no chance to catch it.

We DONT care about points [to whom talked about points]....we are here to Race, to have close Racing with possibility to use Tactics, that contains analyzing of RWD/FWD/AWD advantages.
it's the real racing. At the moment i see that FXO is just a separate class, that they race each other in the Top, like "untouchable", or some real world-class XRT/RB4 drivers can disturb them.

Also to all readers: You have to understand that most people who voted against restriction - are driving FXO. So it's logical, that they dont want to make their Fast cars slower. Pay attention to it.

We want a TBO class, Close Racing, and fun of using tactics and be competitive.

Thank you

IMO Any changes to FXO or any other car should be coded at the source ...period.

Quote from sanderman2000 :

We DONT care about points [to whom talked about points]....we are here to Race, to have close Racing with possibility to use Tactics, that contains analyzing of RWD/FWD/AWD advantages.

Also to all readers: You have to understand that most people who voted against restriction - are driving FXO. So it's logical, that they dont want to make their Fast cars slower. Pay attention to it.

We want a TBO class, Close Racing, and fun of using tactics and be competitive.

Thank you

It's very presumptive of you to speak for all when you say that ALL CTRA drivers don't care about points. Where's your evidence to back that up? It may be how you would like it but that's not necessarily so.

Same goes for your statement that "most people who voted against restriction - are driving FXO." How do you know that for sure? Are you saying now that the poll is invalid and to be ignored because it doesn't fit with what you want to happen?

It's my belief that server imposed restrictions after patch X is what killed the TBO server first time around, so why repeat the error. I want balanced racing but I want the balancing done by the devs. Surely they of all people should know whether the cars are balanced enough for their purpose. They do seem to have missed the mark again though. Oh well, next patch maybe

sanderman2000, +1.

If I drive TBO (I'm more likely to drive XFG/XRG though) I would almost always go for the FXO.

If there is any restrictions then I would tend towards very small power restriction 1% and a wieght restriction with the aim of effecting a change in the balance of the car (i.e. slightly more forward bias) the balance of the car is fine how it is but current setup possiblities allow you to overcome the shortcoming of FWD to easily.

A better option for me would be te see setup restrictions that can be set server side in LFS, hopefully we will see this in the future

Swiss_Tony, i didn't mean to offend or something, and sure it's not ALL, and it's wasn't said correct by me, appologizing.
I meant, that many people,whom i talked to/raced with - do prefer close competetive racing.

No doubt that it's better that LFS Devs will make the needable change.
What i only asked is: since we don't know when LFS will do it - we can do it temporary, if people will agree :/
in Patch X the restriction was too big for FXO,and it killed it [there was alot of weight restrict.]

No offense, i am going with open mind, and glad to hear everyones opinion.
The poll as it it atm shows "17" against restrict., and "27" agree with restrictions.

After all it can be just temporary tested and we can find compromise