Anyone see the racing?

I was there yesterday, got pretty sunburnt!!!, was a pretty good days racing overall, shame to see the diesel SEAT's own the track though.

What do people think about the 3rd race?, SEAT sandbagging or genuine technical difficulties?

what happened to Plato in race 3~?
I read a news article saying he was "black flagged cos of black smoke from his diesel engine"~?

Both SEAT's were struggling, both drivers went into the pits (a couple of times), both drivers came out again after the mech's had looked, but not done anything.

I didn't see any more smoke coming from Plato's car from where I was than Turner's car, but Plato got black flagged for excessive smoke.

I was just a bit wierd, track commentators were saying they had turbo problems, but both cars?

Yeah SEATs race 3 was a mystery.

I don't think it was sandbagging, surely a high profile team wouldn't sand bag when they were over 20 points off the championship lead at the time and even more away from manufacturers and teams championships, now back to over 30 points in the drivers championship after race 3.

But it sure is good to have the BTCC back after a 6 week break!

Bring on Oulton Park!

Oh and as a side note... ITVs coverage was actually pretty good yesterday for a change! More driver interviews than normal, certainly adds to the coverage more!

I think ITV4 have done well with the TV coverage this season, the support package is still only ok.

The SEAT thing was wierd, can't understand how both cars can have problems, how does the success ballast work out for the next round?, maybe the SEAT's think they may have struggled with the ballast?

Quote from mr_x :

Oh and as a side note... ITVs coverage was actually pretty good yesterday for a change! More driver interviews than normal, certainly adds to the coverage more!

Instead of the usual Clios/Porsches/etc we got to see some lycra-clad blokes huffing and puffing their way around France.

D- ... Must Try Harder.

Yes that annoyed me, i find cycling VERY boring to watch,

Did anybody see the Ginnetta Junior's? I thought that was great racing, more exciting then the Clio's I thought when the BTCC was in Brands Hatch, but thats my opinion so,

Yeah, the Ginetta's were fun

The best part about the BTCC weekend is the Ginnetta Junior's, top quality close racing with very few incidents in comparison to the BTCC or the Clio Cup. Josh Hill looks like he has got a bit of that genetic racing talent passed down through the family.

Good to see Matt Neal still can't pass cars without hitting them.

Yes Josh Hill drove really good , how did he lose the lead? I was checking WTCC, but Ginetta's were way better to watch

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

The best part about the BTCC weekend is the Ginnetta Junior's, top quality close racing with very few incidents in comparison to the BTCC or the Clio Cup. Josh Hill looks like he has got a bit of that genetic racing talent passed down through the family.

Good to see Matt Neal still can't pass cars without hitting them.

Yh Josh is doing very well. Had a good few years in Club100 (faster than his dad btw ).

Quote from danowat :

I think ITV4 have done well with the TV coverage this season, the support package is still only ok.

The SEAT thing was wierd, can't understand how both cars can have problems, how does the success ballast work out for the next round?, maybe the SEAT's think they may have struggled with the ballast?

The ballast for practice/quali and race 1 goes by championship positions. race 2 and 3 goes by previous race results

Quote from Bean0 :

Instead of the usual Clios/Porsches/etc we got to see some lycra-clad blokes huffing and puffing their way around France.

D- ... Must Try Harder.

i turned the TV off for a few hours between the coverage.

Nobody has managed to explain what the black flag meant. It can't be for a problem with the car, as that is a black/orange flag, so presumably either BTCC don't understand basic MSA regulations, they are just out to get Plato, or they have different rules for 'professional' drivers.

It's the only BTCC race I've watched in the last two or three years. A shitty diesel, terrible driving standards, stupid commentators... It'll be another three or four years before I watch some more. Unless I become a moron and think crashing into each other is racing.

And then people have a gripe about paying £10 to watch club racing, where there is more clean passing per race than in a BTCC season, plus about 10 races per day.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Nobody has managed to explain what the black flag meant. It can't be for a problem with the car, as that is a black/orange flag, so presumably either BTCC don't understand basic MSA regulations, they are just out to get Plato, or they have different rules for 'professional' drivers.

It's the only BTCC race I've watched in the last two or three years. A shitty diesel, terrible driving standards, stupid commentators... It'll be another three or four years before I watch some more. Unless I become a moron and think crashing into each other is racing.

And then people have a gripe about paying £10 to watch club racing, where there is more clean passing per race than in a BTCC season, plus about 10 races per day.

Cue the usual tosser ruining a perfectly good touring car discussion (as ALWAYS happens here)

You could at least answer the first bit, which is a legitimate question. The second two paragraphs are a personal rant, and can of course just be ignored...

So, why a black flag when he didn't do anything wrong?

Who cares about the black flag? He already pitted with with car problems. He got the black flag after he rejoined for testing, he was already well down the order. Maybe the car was not at top speed and the stewards where worried it might interfere with the others racers in the last few laps of the race....

The red mist descended in race2 admittedly, but fair play to Gio for an excellent recovery. Race one and race three where good. Well done to Stephen Kane on his first Podium


..And whats wrong with Ben and Tim. Some of the most enjoyable commentators to listen to, they are.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You could at least answer the first bit, which is a legitimate question. The second two paragraphs are a personal rant, and can of course just be ignored...

So, why a black flag when he didn't do anything wrong?

Apparently it was 'excessive' smoke (whatever that means), but don't quote me on that.

Obviously excessive smoke is an extreme hazard when you compare it to something less worthy of a black flag, something like a 1000'c exhaust flapping about at 200mph. Smoke could really do some damage, whereas as flying bits of metal pose no risk quite clearly

You have to love the consistency of race stewards sometimes

But excessive smoke would be a black and orange flag? And from the onboard footage they didn't smoke any more than some of the petrol cars.

RE: the exhaust problem - the metal wouldn't be at 1000°C (EGT aren't that high at that point), it weighed only a few grams, wouldn't hurt anyone, and wouldn't have enough mass to fly into the spectators... They certainly aren't as dangerous as the cars themselves, so should they be black flagged too, or are you just trying to find an argument without actually understanding the science behind it enough?

Quote from tristancliffe :

But excessive smoke would be a black and orange flag? And from the onboard footage they didn't smoke any more than some of the petrol cars.

RE: the exhaust problem - the metal wouldn't be at 1000°C (EGT aren't that high at that point), it weighed only a few grams, wouldn't hurt anyone, and wouldn't have enough mass to fly into the spectators... They certainly aren't as dangerous as the cars themselves, so should they be black flagged too, or are you just trying to find an argument without actually understanding the science behind it enough?

a bullet doesn't weight much either

Ask yourself this - would that car pass safety scrutineers pre-race? Yes or no? no mumbo jumbo answer either please!

No it wouldn't, but that doesn't mean it's unsafe enough to warrant disqualification.

A bullet has a huge amount of momentum, and has a very small frontal area with a streamlined shape for easy penetration. That piece of exhaust wouldn't. Even if it had come detached at 200mph, the air resistance and lack of mass would mean it would be slowed VERY VERY quickly indeed. And the air cooling would mean it would be merely 'warm' at the most when it landed. GCSE level engineering/physics stuff.

Quote from tristancliffe :

No it wouldn't, but that doesn't mean it's unsafe enough to warrant disqualification.

A bullet has a huge amount of momentum, and has a very small frontal area with a streamlined shape for easy penetration. That piece of exhaust wouldn't. Even if it had come detached at 200mph, the air resistance and lack of mass would mean it would be slowed VERY VERY quickly indeed. And the air cooling would mean it would be merely 'warm' at the most when it landed. GCSE level engineering/physics stuff.

there's your mumbo jumbo again.

But what about the 200mph momentum of a following car? What if it were to hit a driver in the visor? Of course bits can fall off at any point, but one so obviously clear should have been black flagged. I have seen people black flagged for less in karting... in fact I see it every other weekend.

Actually lol would it not be deemed as a movable aero device lol

No mumbo jumbo there. Just basic words that anyone with a brain would understand. I dumbed it down especially for you.

Do you really think that something weighing a few grams would do much harm if it somehow managed to hit a driver without being diverted by the airflow? Have you any idea what visors are designed to stand up to, or the materials they are made from?

In karting it's slightly different - hotter two stroke exhausts, combined with exposed drivers doing nearly 50mph (i.e. very little aerodynamic deflection).

The 'moveable aerodyynamic device' comment just shows how little you understand about vehicle or aero dynamics. Probably best to quit before you confuse yourself

I dont know anything about the race or black flag incident, am just reading here, but I do know under MSA almost all exhaust problems are immediate orange dotted. Maybe Snetterton misplaced the orange dot flag, or there was communication error between clerk and marshall.

have to agree with tris about driving standards in BTCC if any of us tried driving like that on CTRA or any other adminned server we'd be banned pretty quick, and iracing would probably have a collective breakdown and cancel our account quicker than a very quick thing (ran out of ideas there)

can you imagine if a real life club racer with a novice cross tried some of those passes? they'd be lucky to be allowed to race scalextric cars after the stewards finished with them.

it really annoys me about plato as i like him on tv, and when i read just how bad his burns were last year he went up a lot in my admiration for still racing and not making excuses, but i don't actually like him as a driver because of the numbe rof incidents he gets involved in / creates. he's not the only one, just the one that frustrates me as i want to like him but cant.

re. exhaust they've been falling off f1 cars for years and no one ever gets black flagged for them but they do make me uneasy as im old enough to remember tom price and mark donohue, i know the weight issue is vastly different but i still wouldn't like to see what would happen if a helmet visor was hit by an exhaust end on with a closing speed over 150 mph