Quote from SamH :

Wrong, right there. And that could and should be the end of the story.

V1 is about finding genuine talent wherever it is, and it is about giving that genuine talent an opportunity that would not NECESSARILY present itself otherwise. The fact is that V1 wants to reach more people via TV, and increase exposure to the project and become stronger in future seasons, but it is not for the reasons you've decided in your head. You have made your assumptions, but you've made the wrong assumptions Alan, despite the fact that it's been stated many times already. That's the fact of the matter.

if that was the case why are they not investing in a kart driver who pays his own way, shows IMMENSE talent, and pays for himself to compete nationally making HUGE sacrifices since the age of 17??? May be this person can't afford to buy a G25 so he can go sim racing because real racing means much more. Surely they are more worthy to V1s cause???? This person is out there working his a%$e off just to compete while some kid in his bedroom is getting this oppurtunity... it just doesn't correlate!

By doing V1 Fortec they are offering a brandable package that can be advertised and promoted through the medium of TV. At the end of the day this is about return on investment. V1 are not intending to make a LOSS here I can assure you of that!

I wish good luck genuinely to whoever wins this thing, but to somehow think V1 are trying to find a hidden talent purely for the hell of it is complete nonsense!

The bigger the talent, the bigger the returns

Quote from Intrepid :

This person is out there working his a%$e off just to compete while some kid in his bedroom is getting this oppurtunity... it just doesn't correlate!

Thats life

Quote from Nobo :

Thats life

I agree that is life. Just pointing out that V1's philosophy does not 100% ring true in their program. Nothing wrong with that, it might inspire V1. They are only down the road from Whilton Mill it may be worth them heading over for the TKM Fest coming up.

I'm starting to think your jelous of the ones who might be chosen when you have been karting and a paying for kart races and all that without getting rewarded to somethin bigger.

Anyways, this is just the impression I get from your posts.

I think V1 tries to find someone who has the overall idea of how to control the car. Meaning the car control itself. The rest will come with experience. Driving really well in a sim will off course not be the same as driving in real life. You can be a pro in a sim and pretty bad IRL. In a sim your not scared of crashing or damaging the car, your pushin all the time. IRL you might be afraid of crashing and damaging the car, gettings hurt badly, etc.

I agree that V1 will not find a Lewis Hamilton through a sim but they can find someone who has the potential of going big and helping him reach that level with some training.

Quote from evilpimp :

I'm starting to think your jelous of the ones who might be chosen when you have been karting and a paying for kart races and all that without getting rewarded to somethin bigger.

I started to think that after his first posts in this thread.

Using the word jealousy is just a naive way to discredit someone's point.

I am not good enough, and never have been good enough to warrant such an oppurtunity that V1 are offering. I will state that freely.

What I do recognise is when I witness people willing to make HUGE sacrifices to compete in reality being completely ignored. The thing with V1 that grinds me a little is the fact they appear to be promoting themselves in a way that is contradictory.

Why should a driver who is willing to do so much to get on the track be at a disadvantage to someone who can afford to sit at home for enough hours playing simulators that CAN cost a fortune??

V1 is a cool thing I admit, but raising points about some contradictory philosophies will only help us understand V1 much better and seeing if it can really work. I am sure Jay isn;t the kind of guy that will dismiss points that I am making. Considering I work on a day to day basis with drivers across the world.

There is this suggestion that sim racers don't have an oppurtiny to race and this is why V1 is so great. My point being some real racers have less oppurtunity than them. This is why V1 may be wise to look further afield if they really are true to what they stand for.

Quote from Intrepid :

I am not good enough, and never have been good enough to warrant such an oppurtunity that V1 are offering. I will state that freely.

I for one am glad we've got that out of the way, because since you arrived in LFS you have behaved liked such an elitist **** it's unbelievable. It's nice to see you concede - eventually - that you're no better than everyone else.

Quote from Intrepid :

What I do recognise is when I witness people willing to make HUGE sacrifices to compete in reality being completely ignored. The thing with V1 that grinds me a little is the fact they appear to be promoting themselves in a way that is contradictory.

You seem to be of the opinion that individuals who've paid for drives deserve drives more than better drivers do. Surey these guys who have (correction: whose parents have) paid for them to take part in karting should have some easy route into the higher echelons of motorsport.

Fact is, if these guys are already out there doing it and going nowhere - like you did - then surely teams like Fortec are already aware that they're not worth investing in, and that's why they're looking at other avenues. And if TV can pay to assess these drivers then why not use that? Surely it's better to have a third party pay for you to try out a bunch of promising newcomers than to pay money from your own pocket to support a kart driver who's already demonstrated that they won't reach the higher formulae?

Some people can't afford to get into real racing even if they try as hard as they want. Some people work their butts off to live well and really want to get into racing but have no idea were to go get that extra 5k to get into karting.

I'm sorry I used the word Jelousy but it's the feeling I get when I read your post. Yes I get your point. Yes it is valid. But the way you say it sounds a bit more like you envy those who are going to make it.

It's true that some work they're butts off to get into karting for example or racing and don't get rewarded with much. But some work hard to get into racing but simply don't make it even though they really do want to.

I understand your point, but the way you say it is what gives me that idea.

(I really shouldn't have posted about it at all) =/

I like the idea of V1, anything that promotes motorsport in the UK so that we keep on getting a fresh batch of talented drivers into top flight of motorsport is worth supporting.

I see your frustration there Intrepid, because i had it... seen people get better than you get when you try a LOT to get to that level. You are making a lot of effort to race, when people in V1 will race if they pass every test, while you made more effort than them (ie Money).
The one leading the FBMW Champ has a LOT of money, he didnt had trouble getting there...and i see a little frustration for me, because no matter how money my family has or how much effort i put i wont race, and i wanted to have no trouubles like him...

So when they had the "So you want to be an F1 driver" competition (which I entered, and didn't get past the fitness stage ), or when they take underpriviledged people and give them opportunities via competitions do you get upset too?

This isn't a competition to find the best driver in the world. People deserving of a place in motorsport via usual avenues won't be left behind any more than they already would have been. The two are entirely separate...

Quote from tristancliffe :

So when they had the "So you want to be an F1 driver" competition (which I entered, and didn't get past the fitness stage ), or when they take underpriviledged people and give them opportunities via competitions do you get upset too?

This isn't a competition to find the best driver in the world. People deserving of a place in motorsport via usual avenues won't be left behind any more than they already would have been. The two are entirely separate...

They are separate and going for slightly different people. Believe it or not there are people smart enough to know when not to jump if they simply cannot afford it. First thing first is a roof over your head and food on the table.

There are families out there that cannot afford the extra 10k plus to get their kid into racing, and that’s cheap. To race nationally you are easily looking at 30-40k, probably more, and that’s just for karts! Sure with families making that per adult it MAY be possible to run. Then sponsors can help offset this cost, but at the end of the day a significant amount of cash is needed to race and there will be very talented people, who are smart enough to know when not to play the real racing game when the risks are so high. IE they cannot afford to put food on the table if they race, and yes this is the case. The average British family barely makes 45k a year, with both adults working! Never mind finding the extra 10k to afford something that will never put food on the table, except in extreme circumstances, it's just not worth it.

People who don't race because of cost are not showing any less commitment, they are simply using their intelligence and they know when they have no feasible chance of competing to a realistic level without living in a cardboard box and stewing socks for dinner.

Keep in mind I am only talking about aspiring professional racers ...

There is another side of this. Because of the vast amounts of cash dolled out by families (IE not the actual racer) that the parents become involved in managing their kid. This is a disaster waiting to happen and many people in the racing business have lost their jobs because they said the wrong thing to a racers Dad at some point. V1 would solve this problem by eliminating the cash from the families and engineers would now be able to coach and teach without fear of losing their financial backer.

There is bound to be a few great racers out there in the sim racing community. Some of them are probably not even that fast. Not everyone has a bazillion hours to run thousands of laps on a config to get their lap times down. All it takes is the proper mentality when using simulators, which are used by professional racers to hone their skills, and they could be a great racer, just maybe one that runs 1-2 seconds off the pace because they don’t have the time to sit in front of the computer. They are too busy working putting food on the table, IE setting their priorities strait which IMO is one attribute anyone wanting to achieve anything will need.

Intrepid can you please take your elitism back to iRacing… you should love that simulator, you have to pay more cash to race and because of that they will be better drivers who can comprehend racing better...

Anyone read the bit in Autosport about the V1 Championship? 17th july issue.

Quote from D.Zanetti :

Anyone read the bit in Autosport about the V1 Championship? 17th july issue.

yes, nice article but very disappointed that they didn't mention LFS once by name, i know the devs are keeping a low profile till lfs is finished but maybe now would be a good time to get someone from autosport to try lfs on a decent wheel, pedal, pc setup. especially given iracing's development and that they intend to advertise themselves as "the motorsport simulation"

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

They are separate and going for slightly different people. Believe it or not there are people smart enough to know when not to jump if they simply cannot afford it. First thing first is a roof over your head and food on the table.

There are families out there that cannot afford the extra 10k plus to get their kid into racing, and that’s cheap. 1. To race nationally you are easily looking at 30-40k, probably more, and that’s just for karts! Sure with families making that per adult it MAY be possible to run. Then sponsors can help offset this cost, but at the end of the day a significant amount of cash is needed to race and there will be very talented people, who are smart enough to know when not to play the real racing game when the risks are so high. IE they cannot afford to put food on the table if they race, and yes this is the case. The average British family barely makes 45k a year, with both adults working! Never mind finding the extra 10k to afford something that will never put food on the table, except in extreme circumstances, it's just not worth it.

2. People who don't race because of cost are not showing any less commitment, they are simply using their intelligence and they know when they have no feasible chance of competing to a realistic level without living in a cardboard box and stewing socks for dinner.

Keep in mind I am only talking about aspiring professional racers ...

There is another side of this. Because of the vast amounts of cash dolled out by families (IE not the actual racer) that the parents become involved in managing their kid. This is a disaster waiting to happen and many people in the racing business have lost their jobs because they said the wrong thing to a racers Dad at some point. V1 would solve this problem by eliminating the cash from the families and engineers would now be able to coach and teach without fear of losing their financial backer.

There is bound to be a few great racers out there in the sim racing community. Some of them are probably not even that fast. Not everyone has a bazillion hours to run thousands of laps on a config to get their lap times down. All it takes is the proper mentality when using simulators, which are used by professional racers to hone their skills, and they could be a great racer, just maybe one that runs 1-2 seconds off the pace because they don’t have the time to sit in front of the computer. They are too busy working putting food on the table, IE setting their priorities strait which IMO is one attribute anyone wanting to achieve anything will need.

3. Intrepid can you please take your elitism back to iRacing… you should love that simulator, you have to pay more cash to race and because of that they will be better drivers who can comprehend racing better...

1. You can run TKM Nationally for under 6k and there is some TOP quality competition.

2. If your not prepared to live in a cardboard box to race IMHO you dont have the commitment to be a professional racer

3. I am not being elitist AT ALL!!!! I am supporting the UNDER FUNDED drivers out there. The ones that are WORKING hard to get somewhere.

For me someone that can afford a DECENT PC, WHEEL, and INTERNET CONNECTION has the MEANS to go racing for REAL if they REALLY wanted too! Clearly they don't. If this is the sort of driver V1 wants to pick up then fine! That's their choice.

Ok, so single parent child living with his mom who works her ass of with her shop she owns and just about manages to get enough money for the two people to live in a home with bills paid. Kid wants to be a racing driver but dads not around to take him and doesn't have the money either if he was. What is the kid to do? I would really like to know.

Quote from Intrepid :

For me someone that can afford a DECENT PC, WHEEL, and INTERNET CONNECTION has the MEANS to go racing for REAL if they REALLY wanted too! Clearly they don't. If this is the sort of driver V1 wants to pick up then fine! That's their choice.

You said that at least 10 times now. Apparently, it is not fine with you or you wouldn't keep posting the same thing over and over again.

Show me an excel with an annual budget of 6k for a new starter into TKM. New karts alone are upwards of 4,000pounds by the time you are done... Used are 2k, then a trailer, spares, track fees, fuel to drive back and forth to the track, lodging fees...

Why am I even bothering... you are talking out your arse. Sure you may be able to get into a kart for that, with no spares and putting the kart into the back of your Dad's estate, with bent chassis kart and used tires, 6k would hardly cover your fuel and food costs to and from the track for a national series.

If you REALLY want to race you will do anything speach is tiring. I used to say it myself, until I got a life, there are other things in life than racing, if there isn't then I feel sorry for you and wish you all the best in your cardboard box the next time it rains, give me your address and I will send you a complementry house to use when your letting the sun dry your other cardboard box.

Keep in mind that even if you could competively race for 6k a year, which you can't, it is still over 13% of the income of an average family household. Thats how much you could buy a house for in some area's... hmm a house or a gokart that I will never be able to compete in... having difficulties here in setting my priorities... not sure which one I should do...

I am going back under my bridge now...

Okay, let's look at this. Alan, you're setting out a them-vs-us scenario that just doesn't exist. Those karters that really want a shot at a racing career, they have the option to try for it through V1. Nobody will stand in their way.

After all, if they're not willing to commit to this FREE and REAL shot at a racing career, one has to ask how committed to the career goal they really are. V1 is a genuine avenue that is open to them. They should be exploring ALL avenues. Right?

With all the gimmick programs in the past you would forgive them for being slightly sceptical. Also it's very hard to justify spending around £500+ on a sim set up. Free??? I think not!

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

Show me an excel with an annual budget of 6k for a new starter into TKM. New karts alone are upwards of 4,000pounds by the time you are done... Used are 2k, then a trailer, spares, track fees, fuel to drive back and forth to the track, lodging fees...

Why am I even bothering... you are talking out your arse. Sure you may be able to get into a kart for that, with no spares and putting the kart into the back of your Dad's estate, with bent chassis kart and used tires, 6k would hardly cover your fuel and food costs to and from the track for a national series.

If you REALLY want to race you will do anything speach is tiring. I used to say it myself, until I got a life, there are other things in life than racing, if there isn't then I feel sorry for you and wish you all the best in your cardboard box the next time it rains, give me your address and I will send you a complementry house to use when your letting the sun dry your other cardboard box.

Keep in mind that even if you could competively race for 6k a year, which you can't, it is still over 13% of the income of an average family household. Thats how much you could buy a house for in some area's... hmm a house or a gokart that I will never be able to compete in... having difficulties here in setting my priorities... not sure which one I should do...

I am going back under my bridge now...

You can get a competive chassis in TKM for £800. The 2006 JKH is till FAST to this day (i have the data to prove it) and is still used in Super1. You also don't have to own all your own equipment. If you smart you can get deals on renting engines, and running with teams.

Tyres for the year are £600, entries are around £200-300.

I have seen it done with my VERY EYES!!! TKM can be done on a budget that is simply unbelievable. The only thing you have to be is a FRIGGIN' good driver who doesnt blame his equipment and results can be achieved.

Until you got a life??... a house, a wife... wow thats living. lol

But if you not a very good driver you won't get anywhere. You just sound like one of those drivers that is full of excuses. At least I have the nuts to say I was not good enough.

Okay I give up. I fully concede the point made earlier by someone. Alan, you are in fact just a troll, and just not worthy of the attention.

Sam, I have to say i'm majorly impressed, how did you manage to hold on for so long?

I read this post and was of the same opinion as Evilpimp, half way through typing my reply I just about lost the will to live.

Quote from Intrepid :

I agree that is life. Just pointing out that V1's philosophy does not 100% ring true in their program. Nothing wrong with that, it might inspire V1. They are only down the road from Whilton Mill it may be worth them heading over for the TKM Fest coming up.

I think you should stop posting the same jelous opinions over and over again, it's not doing anybody any favours.

Recently I've been too tired from work to participate in V1 practise sessions without losing my concentration and binning the car, it's as if I just can't find the groove.

Half day tomorrow so I'm going to get some sleep and (hopefully) be back with a vengeance