It seems that some of the drivers in CTRA haven't read or understood the rules.
There isn't even a dedicated sticky for them ?
Hidden in the FAQ sticky , but then, only a link to them

Also , there are only 17.66% of racers using the raceauthority.com website,so they haven't visited there to read the rules either .

No wonder people don't know.

Perhaps you should be made to visit the website and sign up if you want to race ? Doesn't seem unreasonable, you have to sign up for most things these days.

An in-race admin message should be sent to all racers to visit the site and read the rules , and then tick the box to acknowledge reading and understanding them ,before being allowed to continue racing.
Similar to the current system ,so easy to implement ?

This would make sure no one would have any excuse for not reading the rules.

We shouldn't be having admin responses like this to reports about experienced racers , basically from not reading the rules.

Quote" This is one of the worst examples of midrace joiner interference that we have ever seen. It is totally inconceivable to us that a gold licenced racer would be so ignorant of fundamental CTRA rules. This cannot be allowed to continue. To hold a Gold licence, you must maintain a standard befitting a gold-licenced driver. This is far below that standard and will not be tolerated."

So the rules should be forced to be acknowledged by all the participants , so there is no ambiguity or shouting that you 'didn't understand the waved blue flag rule' etc.
Because from experienced racers that's mince complete mince

well when you first(as in first time) go on the server a couple of pages of rules do come up and you have to click 'i agree' to continue

deit: just re-read your post and it seems you did make a referance to this but if the driver in qquestion had read those rules that responce to a report wouldnt have hapened, or may not have, a more reliable way to get people to read the full rules would be good though, ive had this convo on ts with sam etc before and it is very hard to come up with a reliable idea

Perhaps , bring up the rules and acknowledgements for each one at a time , and if the person just clicks without having had enough time to read it , a polite message telling them to read properly !!

When you arrive on the ctra server for the first time and just want to race , people will just click away without reading .
Everything these days has a end user agreement , which you just tick without reading , it's usually just the same old....

Perhaps once you leave race 1 environment , make the drivers sit a test on the rules before receiving there license !!

17,344 drivers have raced in the ctra ,but not used the race authority site

Only 3,721 have used it !!

How about a random quote from the rules appears everytime you connect to a ctra server?

tbo I rarely race on ctra (I rarely race at all to be even more honest :shy and I have no idea when was the first time I connected to a ctra server. If I was tested on the ctra rules I'm sure I'd pass the common sense ones but less sure I'd pass the specific ones. What I'm saying it is easy not to keep up with them all and have them fresh in your mind. So a random short quote every time you connect might help keep the most important one fresh

The rules are there, the CTRA displays them and they're there in server and new drivers are made very aware they are entering into an agreement to abide by the rules when they join - provided they speak English anyway.

What the CTRA cannot do is make people take the time to make sure they read and understand the rules they are being presented with and take them seriously, the only way that can be enforced is via reporting drivers who dont follow them.

We used to display a random page from the rules ($about, $rules, $blue) whenever people entered the server, but noticed that people didnt take the opportunity to refresh themselves on them but instead just automatically clicked "I agree".

There's not much the CTRA can do to change the fundamental laws of Human nature, in this case, the law pertaining to never reading the instructions.

Quote from Becky Rose :

What the CTRA cannot do is make people take the time to make sure they read and understand the rules they are being presented with and take them seriously, the only way that can be enforced is via reporting drivers who dont follow them.

I agree, the rules are there. It's up to the users to take the time to read them. If they don't and get reported, they'll suffer the consequences. Simple as that.

And really, there aren't that many CTRA-specific rules in the first place. Most of it is just a lot of common sense and general racing rules IMO

Quote from obsolum :

..And really, there aren't that many CTRA-specific rules in the first place. Most of it is just a lot of common sense and general racing rules IMO

So why do racers have problems understanding them?

Because some people are just plain dumb when it comes to common sense. And an annoying screen displaying the rules won't change that. They need to be educated the hard way, by punishment

becosuse some cant be bothered with the rules and just break them maybe, i know pleantly of people like this, though i must say many more people who arnt like this

Quote from Turbo Dad :

So why do racers have problems understanding them?

I don't think 'they' have a problem understanding the principles.

Putting them into practice however, is a different matter.

Whilst we all make driving mistakes and errors in judgement, I can't think of an example where lack of knowledge can be accepted as a valid excuse.

It is a tricky one to see a way around tho, as Becky and James pointed out. One click and all the T&C's are signed up to. Not much more CTRA can do about that.

Well, short of heading round to the offenders house and disconnecting their internet

I've seen first hand irl that punishment doesn't always create common sense either

Case in example a machine op (real life story) puts his hand in harms way and looses a finger. Any other operator would have the common sense to know it is a stupid place to put their hand and wouldn't. Six months later after said finger has healed and the original machine is modified to stop people without common sense doing stupid things, he comes very close to loosing another finger from almost the same senerio on a different machine He doesn't appear daft or on drugs and there is nothing else to suggest he is stupid. But even loosing a finger the first time around didn't give him common sense I've met more than one individual like this.

I don't know that there is a cure for lack of common sense other than if they fail to show common sense repeatedly that they be ashered out...

I'm sensing this thread is less about how to make people read rules and more about having a gripe about the people who don't follow the rules that exist. I've just got done having an argument with someone who got banned 30 days from CTRA servers because he didn't see the "WARNING: DO NOT REMOVE.." and the "Reminder: Do not remove.." notices. Apparently that's OUR fault.

Err.. LOL?

Failure to abide by CTRA rules typically results in penalties. By the time drivers reach Silver licence, we enforce them so strictly that any Silver licenced driver that breaks one of our rules will in all likelihood find him/herself back at Bronze. This can mean a lot of points.. shame they didn't take the time necessary to read and absorb the rules, then. Silver+ licenced drivers WILL, by definition, understand fully and will abide by our rules, in full.

Quote from HVS5b :

I can't think of an example where lack of knowledge can be accepted as a valid excuse.

Oh but it is , and that is a problem.

Drivers stating that they didn't understand a rule should not be a valid excuse.

Forcing the rules agreement on them would stop the pathetic 'I didn't know' syndrome.

We both force and enforce. You are forced to agree to our agreement, which is subject to the rules listed both in LFS and also on the website. You cannot join the track unless you have done so.

Having done that, we enforce those rules strictly. We almost always reset the rules agreement settings when people received a warning or a caution, and they are forced to RE-agree. Ultimately, if they either don't read them or don't abide by them, they get permanently removed from the CTRA. Full enforcement. No changes necessary.

One of your dodgy popups happened to me in the middle of a race the other day and I was forced to remove it as quick as possible to prevent crashing. Absolutely no chance of reading it.

Could it be made that they do not suddenly appear mid race ?

Quote from Bean0 :

One of your dodgy popups happened to me in the middle of a race the other day and I was forced to remove it as quick as possible to prevent crashing. Absolutely no chance of reading it.

Could it be made that they do not suddenly appear mid race ?

The only dodgy popup you get is if you say "blue flag" or something like that while driving. This has been the most effective way of stopping, or at least reducing, the amount of blue flag spam in servers. I bet you've noticed a distinct drop in the flow of that in the last few months, surely?

i have

Quote from Turbo Dad :

Forcing the rules agreement on them would stop the pathetic 'I didn't know' syndrome.

The "I didn't know" syndrome only works if it cuts the mustard with the admin handling the report. FTR, it doesn't with any of them.

Quote from SamH :

You are forced to agree to our agreement, which is subject to the rules listed both in LFS and also on the website.

If your not pushing people to raceauthority.com by making them sign up, they ain't gonna see the rules.
Or even having the rules in clear view in a sticky thread in this ctra section might be helpful

Quote from Turbo Dad :

If your not pushing people to raceauthority.com by making them sign up, they ain't gonna see the rules.
Or even having the rules in clear view in a sticky thread in this ctra section might be helpful

No, that isn't correct.

Quote from SamH :

We both force and enforce. You are forced to agree to our agreement, which is subject to the rules listed both in LFS and also on the website. You cannot join the track unless you have done so.

[edit] Would you like me to reset your rules agreement Turbo Dad? It doesn't mean anything except that you'll then see (again) what any new driver sees when they join a CTRA server.. so you can see what I'm talking about. Gimme the nod and I'll go reset it, so you can see what I mean

Quote from Glenn67 :

Case in example a machine op (real life story) puts his hand in harms way and looses a finger. Any other operator would have the common sense to know it is a stupid place to put their hand and wouldn't. Six months later after said finger has healed and the original machine is modified to stop people without common sense doing stupid things, he comes very close to loosing another finger from almost the same senerio on a different machine He doesn't appear daft or on drugs and there is nothing else to suggest he is stupid. But even loosing a finger the first time around didn't give him common sense I've met more than one individual like this.

I think his cousin must work at my place, our floor manager is just like that

Quote from SamH :

The only dodgy popup you get is if you say "blue flag" or something like that while driving. This has been the most effective way of stopping, or at least reducing, the amount of blue flag spam in servers. I bet you've noticed a distinct drop in the flow of that in the last few months, surely?

I swore, and got booted.
I returned, expecting to have to click something, but nothing.

Mid T1, I get the RCM about $notes. I immediately think 'AARGH YELLOW, CHAOS AHEAD', take my eyes off the road to check minimap and ease off gas.

Only then do I realise it is the message caused by my swearing...albeit at a daft time.
I also realise that I will not see any yellows because it is in the way.

First opportunity on a straight I type in $notes, notice it says I have to click 2 things to get shot of it and do so.

I have no idea what it said.

Quote from SamH :

[edit] Would you like me to reset your rules agreement Turbo Dad? It doesn't mean anything except that you'll then see (again) what any new driver sees when they join a CTRA server.. so you can see what I'm talking about. Gimme the nod and I'll go reset it, so you can see what I mean

Yes please sir , I was just trying to figure out a way of signing up again !!

Quote from Bean0 :

I swore, and got booted.

I think I can see a solution to this problem, that will prevent it happening in the future.. can you guess what it is?

Quote from SamH :

I think I can see a solution to this problem, that will prevent it happening in the future.. can you guess what it is?

Aye, making the messages only appear on joining the server. Not mid race.

As I said, I was expecting to have to do something after getting booted...just not expecting to have to do something mid race under dangerous circumstances.

Say I left the message for the race duration, obviously missing any yellows, and went round a blind corner and straight into a spun car at race speed. I imagine blame would be firmly placed on me even though there was no way to know about the accident up ahead.