Ooops.. forgot to say.. done!
Ooops.. forgot to say.. done!
The software notifies me using the same messaging system, every time I restart the software. I'm very familiar with being hit with this RCM during testing/beta testing.
I don't think a regular LFS RCM, which this is, is actually a real risk to racing, frankly. I think if it were, RCMs, as an aspect of racing in LFS generally, would be incessantly complained about in every managed league throughout LFS. They're not.
All things considered I don't actually think this is the race-stopping/devastation-threatening issue you're suggesting that it is at all.
[edit] Not only but also.. these messages are not courtesy messages. We don't send them to wish you happy birthday. If you can't race with it there, then go to spectate. If you wreck someone because you can't see the race because you have an order to go see $notes, then that's entirely your responsibility. Go to spectate, clear your admin message, and pick up in the next race.. and lastly, but by no means least, don't swear in our servers in future. That $notes RCM is entirely self-inflicted.
Joined ctra server and received the agreement again .
Your missing a 'don't agree' button
Nice to see , was so long ago I signed up, better than I remember.
But people will be too eager to race , rather than read fully the rules and link, before clicking agree
Why do you not require drivers to sign up via the website?
Why aren't the rules stickied ,in a clearly titled thread ,in bold ,at the top of this section?
This would allow people to read it at leisure if only 17% visiting ctra site
Because we require them to sign up in-game. Their CTRA licence is not even created unless they agree to the rules/agreement. There are no details in our database for people to log into the website with until then.
The same people that don't use raceauthority.com don't use lfsforum.net. This subforum is not the home of CTRA, it's just a place for discussion on the topic of CTRA.
Short of a rules test that everybody has to pass before they can race, it's impossible to measure the comprehension that players have of the rules they're agreeing to. We will talk about "X-am" another time, but that is X2+, not public racing on CTRA servers.
It is entirely sufficient for the system to continue as it is now, and for penalties to be issued to those who break the rules (whether in ignorance or full knowledge it matters not) as they are now. The report's admin response in the first post does not indicate a fault with the CTRA, it indicates a problem with an individual racer. It was a problem that was addressed in full. The system is NOT broken.
It's not the message that is the problem...it randomly appearing mid race is.
I imagine people who collect these $notes messages on a more regular basis are more familiar with the randomness of them.
I'll swear in your servers if I want to, and get booted for the privilege thanks.
It isn't random. The $notes message appears very specifically at the end of the first lap. If other RCMs are sent after, it will be returned again at the end of the next lap. It will continue to be sent until you accept the message that is being sent to you, and it will recur if you get warned or cautioned via the reports system, or booted for swearing again, and again and again, ad infinitum, until you choose to stop it. You have the power.
Sam ,I'm not saying there is a problem with the system or it's broken.
It's just making it hard for people to view the rules that their meant to abide by .
I thought you would take the opportunity to publicise the rules where you might catch people i.e sticky ,if the visit the forums here.
Why do you think that the same people that don't use raceauthority.com don't use lfsforum.net.?
If there is a chance, why not?
There seems to be more traffic here about CTRA than anywhere else, including ukct forums
Do you not what to encourage the use of the website?
There is obviously a lot of hard work that has went into creating and running it, and so much information available .
Why not send them there?
Edit : I referred to the admin response in the first post , because this was about an experienced racer , who said he didn't understand the rules , therefore proposing my argument for more awareness of the rules , not indicating a fault in the system
I understand what you're saying.
CTRA Server Status, Licence Notes and FAQ <--- this sticky has a link to raceauthority.com in the first post, and a link to the rules page in the 2nd post.
I figure that if they're not going to read the rules in the server, and if they're not going to read them on the CTRA website, and if they're not going to follow the links to the rules in the LFS forum, they're definitely not going to bother reading them if they're posted in full, in bright colours on this forum. However, they are always going to be held to those rules, whether they read them or not. Maintaining the rules over multiple locations is problematic and bound to fail. If it were possible to include the rules on this forum, that are PHYSICALLY hosted on the raceauthority.com, that would be the way to do it. Unfortunately it isn't possible at the moment.
Perhaps we can look for a way to do it, but at the end of the day anybody who is going to race on a server that has rules, without familiarising themselves with those rules (just as in league racing) would be a fool unto themselves and, in all likelihood, but a brief visitor to the CTRA. Those that somehow climb the ranks will tumble (as recently demonstrated) if they demonstrate a lack of understanding of, or appreciation for the expectations placed upon them.
CTRA Server Status, Licence Notes and FAQ <--- this sticky has a link to raceauthority.com in the first post, and a link to the rules page in the 2nd post.
I figure that if they're not going to read the rules in the server, and if they're not going to read them on the CTRA website, and if they're not going to follow the links to the rules in the LFS forum, they're definitely not going to bother reading them if they're posted in full, in bright colours on this forum. However, they are always going to be held to those rules, whether they read them or not. Maintaining the rules over multiple locations is problematic and bound to fail. If it were possible to include the rules on this forum, that are PHYSICALLY hosted on the raceauthority.com, that would be the way to do it. Unfortunately it isn't possible at the moment.
Perhaps we can look for a way to do it, but at the end of the day anybody who is going to race on a server that has rules, without familiarising themselves with those rules (just as in league racing) would be a fool unto themselves and, in all likelihood, but a brief visitor to the CTRA. Those that somehow climb the ranks will tumble (as recently demonstrated) if they demonstrate a lack of understanding of, or appreciation for the expectations placed upon them.
Cool Sam , your obviously not going to be swayed
Thank you for your time sir
Thank you for your time sir
I'm difficult, and obstinate!
You *have* started me off thinking, and I'm taking a lot with me from this thread. I tend to carry a lot of momentum in whichever direction I'm travelling, and I know that I'm difficult to stop or deflect. I'm not promising changes, but I am still mulling the points raised here
The rules are Common sense, 90+% of drivers I see daily obey these "rules" without even knowing what they are.
Lets not make It more complicated than It has to be
But I would happily lose the retort I get when saying sorry though,,, preaching to the converted
Lets not make It more complicated than It has to be
But I would happily lose the retort I get when saying sorry though,,, preaching to the converted
Agreed! That's gone as of the next update
Most drivers do seem to be pretty good but as Turbo Dad says it's the blue flag / mid race joiner thing that seems to be most misunderstood. Looking at rules 6.1 and 6.3 they also seem to contradict each other a little. 6.1 taken literally means that all mid race joiners are expected to line up at a safe distance behind a very slow car (maybe on their first visit to that combo) waiting for him to pull off and retire (what the rules say you should do), whereas in practice what probably happens is they shoot past him quickly before even generating a blue flag for themselves. And then 6.3 suggests that mid race joiners can actually fight for positions in certain circumstances. Perhaps there's an opportunity to clarify things in that area as part of any changes implemented?
This is one of the things I've come away with. There are good reasons for the rules that exist. 6.3 is indeed an effective addendum with implications on 6.1. I think the rules could be clearer. I think they could be more concise, and I think more clear and concise rules would be 80% of the solution to getting people to comprehend and thus comply with the rules generally - the core issue raised by Turbo Dad.
I will steal some time with the CTRA admins, and we will revamp the existing ruleset format. They also may need shoring up a little - we've had a problem in the past with difficult "customers" who have behaved poorly, pointing to the fact that it didn't specifically say in the rules that they couldn't do what they did - even though, in any reasonable mind, it's obvious.
I don't think the existing rules are wrong or faulty.. I concede that there may be a problem in delivery, though.
I will steal some time with the CTRA admins, and we will revamp the existing ruleset format. They also may need shoring up a little - we've had a problem in the past with difficult "customers" who have behaved poorly, pointing to the fact that it didn't specifically say in the rules that they couldn't do what they did - even though, in any reasonable mind, it's obvious.
I don't think the existing rules are wrong or faulty.. I concede that there may be a problem in delivery, though.
Well, I can't find the thread in the general LFS forums now, but there's a good one about post race behavior. If you're going to refine the rules a bit, perhaps some guidelines here would be a nice addition? While it would be nice if people didn't park on the S/F line after the race's end, I'm really thinking more about things like deliberate post race wrecking and driving backwards on the track.
While it would be nice to be able to practice/test setup changes without having to dodge parked cars, I'm not so worried about that. But I particularly don't like having my FF wheel knocked silly for someone else's amusement.
While it would be nice to be able to practice/test setup changes without having to dodge parked cars, I'm not so worried about that. But I particularly don't like having my FF wheel knocked silly for someone else's amusement.
Yep, I've been wanting to add that for 6 months or more. I think we're "old enough" as a server system to start establishing one or two new basic rules such as post-race wrecking/run-down laps etc. As time has passed, the resistance to public server rule enforcement has diminished (it was pretty raw in the early days) and the default height of the bar in LFS broadly speaking has been raised significantly in the last couple of years.
We've had 26,000 drivers through the doors. I believe that amounts to more or less the entire current S1/S2 userbase that understands or has experience of what CTRA is about, in broad terms. The rate of new driver influx is low enough that we (the racing community) can reasonably lead/steer these new drivers by example.
I think the CTRA rules rewrite will be radical enough that it will require a full licence-base agreement reset. Everyone will have to re-read and agree to the rules on each of the licences (CTRA, SS and BnJ) before they can race, post rule-rewrite. It's probably a good thing to do anyway, since thousands of the people racing in CTRA haven't been confronted with/reminded of the rules they're racing to for nigh-on a year now.
Before we burst forth into proposals for new rules, it's necessary to state for the record that the mission largely is to reduce the number of rule "points", and make them more clear and comprehensible, NOT to build a new list of additional rules. I'm willing to take on a couple, and I think this (post race behaviour) is an important one to raise the bar a little for our racers. We'll consider new rules if they're proposed but we're not specifically inviting them. Please remember that THIS aspect of CTRA is, always was, always will be public pick-up and newbie friendly. We're not formulating rules for a private signup-only league.
We've had 26,000 drivers through the doors. I believe that amounts to more or less the entire current S1/S2 userbase that understands or has experience of what CTRA is about, in broad terms. The rate of new driver influx is low enough that we (the racing community) can reasonably lead/steer these new drivers by example.
I think the CTRA rules rewrite will be radical enough that it will require a full licence-base agreement reset. Everyone will have to re-read and agree to the rules on each of the licences (CTRA, SS and BnJ) before they can race, post rule-rewrite. It's probably a good thing to do anyway, since thousands of the people racing in CTRA haven't been confronted with/reminded of the rules they're racing to for nigh-on a year now.
Before we burst forth into proposals for new rules, it's necessary to state for the record that the mission largely is to reduce the number of rule "points", and make them more clear and comprehensible, NOT to build a new list of additional rules. I'm willing to take on a couple, and I think this (post race behaviour) is an important one to raise the bar a little for our racers. We'll consider new rules if they're proposed but we're not specifically inviting them. Please remember that THIS aspect of CTRA is, always was, always will be public pick-up and newbie friendly. We're not formulating rules for a private signup-only league.
The post-race wrecking and parking on track thing would be a good inclusion IMO. It's a shame there isn't a proper parc fermé area on every track after the finish line that folk can be asked to drive to. Maybe some explanations of why the rules are there could help people to understand. E.g. "crashing into a car unexpectedly can cause damage to the user's force feedback wheel, or cause him to spill his coffee" etc. I agree if there are too many rules it will just be like one of those software licence agreements you just click through without reading.
Again, people are bringing LFS issues into the CTRA system and asking them to sort it.
I for one would not sit down and waste ANY time going through reports based on incidents on cool down laps...
If you don't want to mess up your FF, then press escape after you have finished....
The problem of people parking up in the middle of the track still remains.
It is a valid point due to the CTRA concurrent qualifying system, unless laps done after end of race don't count towards it...I think they do though ?
It is a valid point due to the CTRA concurrent qualifying system, unless laps done after end of race don't count towards it...I think they do though ?
To see the CTRA points display you have to stay on track though? Or Shift+P and then leave the pits.
Pressing escape just brings up the menu and stops FFB. You will still be on track.
No they dont, your best lap is taken from the results data, and I believe you have to have completed 75% race distance for it to register to curtail hotlapping syndrome.
So mid race joining to set a time is pointless unless there is 3/4 of the race left ?
As a midrace joiner you are graciously allowed to join the track, at the kindness of the stewards, to practice.
At least I think that's how it works now, MRJ times used to be counted but I recall a discussion here about it. I'm just an end user now too dont forget ;P
At least I think that's how it works now, MRJ times used to be counted but I recall a discussion here about it. I'm just an end user now too dont forget ;P
No, you get your (hopefully good) grid position for your first full race.
CTRA Rules Awareness
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