Quote from SamH :

No, you get your (hopefully good) grid position for your first full race.

And are laps after race end counted ?

Quote from Bean0 :

And are laps after race end counted ?

Nope

Quote from Bean0 :

And are laps after race end counted ?

Noop.

I just went to try to test the 75% theory. It's easier to do by joining a server and finding out. PC crashed so I'll try again in a few mins.

I suspect Sam, that it's based on the MRJ field of the player type.

simply entering the race MRJ will improve your grid position even if you don't record a lap - you'll be first of the 'new' racers into the next race... which can be 10 or so on some race nights with big numbers of joiners.

But the point of joining mid race has always been to set a qualifying time.

At least that is how it was originally, and I cannot remember reading that it has changed.

Quote from Bean0 :

But the point of joining mid race has always been to set a qualifying time.

At least that is how it was originally, and I cannot remember reading that it has changed.

is it - or is the point to get soem practice laps in and get used to the car/combo, without interfering with the drivers who took to the starting grid

Quote from Dru :

is it - or is the point to get soem practice laps in and get used to the car/combo, without interfering with the drivers who took to the starting grid

Quote from SamH :

There are advantages and disadvantages to midace joining being allowed. Our system allows you to midrace join, but under strict conditions. Most people are able to comply with the rules and issues don't always arise.

Midrace joining has been allowed on most public servers since the earliest days. That's the nature of pickup racing. We decided to make some use out of it, and we allow people to qualify. On short tracks, I think it's a wise decision not to even bother midrace joining until the last lap, if at all. However, arbitrarily disallowing it will result in lower server populations and we don't want that.

We won't be disabling midrace joining because some people don't/won't adhere to the rules specifically referring to it. We also won't stop all racing because some people can't help wrecking. We'll deal with all rule breaches on a case-by-case basis.

Yes.

well - I think 'practice' is the better word.

The problem with mid-race join is the drivers who go out hot lapping and disregard other racers who 'get in their way' whilst driving about.

The worst offenders i can not stand are the ones which drive quickly up to the guy in front, then shadow them, or 'tail-gating' for want of a better word, forcing them into a mistake and then they crash.

There is no need ofr that type of driving and the fact that lap times can be gained by MRJ just make that problem worse.

I don't have a problem with MRJ who respect the rules but ones which join and hot lap and break the rules and affect other drivers should burn....

Is MRJ even a valid option in something like the CTRA system?

Quote from Dru :

The worst offenders i can not stand are the ones which drive quickly up to the guy in front, then shadow them, or 'tail-gating' for want of a better word, forcing them into a mistake and then they crash.

Already been covered, SamH suggests that the shadowee uses this as racing experience.

Quote from Rick. :

I agree it can be reported, but still being a bit new I'm reluctant until I come here to check if I am actually wrong.

I'm not that good and maybe they think they can just pass without incident, but a car on my butt still causes me to make stupid mistakes, I psych myself out!

Maybe the lfs guys will come up with a new feature where mid race joiners all appear to real racers as ghosts and not harm can be done! Well maybe not.

Quote from SamH :

You're not at all alone in this.. I'd go as far as to say mastery of this thing is exceedingly important, as you learn to race against others. Someone who is laps down, however, should not be of concern to you.. so getting on top of that is paramount. I recommend using them as a training tool

Having someone sliding up and down your rear bumper is par for the course in motor racing (sim included) and getting control of your "psyche", keeping your cool, and ultimately mastering defensive driving is just as important as driving quickly over all. In fact, defending your position without losing overall speed is most essential because it's easier to defend well while losing ground on the cars in front. Once you can drive both defensively AND attack at the same time, you're a candidate for any race win.

I think the problem is that it is too hard to regulate and define the 'shadowing'. It's a huge grey area. I consider it unsporting, not against the rules, simply because any rule would be unenforceable.

Quote from danowat :

Is MRJ even a valid option in something like the CTRA system?

MRJ is a server status "flag". At the start of the race, all racers pick up the server's MRJ=0 status. After the pitlane opens, the server switches to MRJ=1 and as each player joins, they pick up that status. That way, we can send "Give way to speedyButt" only to those who are being blue flagged because they joined late.. etc.

But is allowing MRJ a valid option in a system like CTRA?

Not sure if it's been discussed before, but surely kill the ability to MRJ would cure all these issues with MRJ.

I think that could effect server population. The system was always designed to complement pickup racing not to restructure it, accessibility is a key ingredient for that.

Separate out the behaviour of the person being hounded from the driver doing the hounding. Having someone caked all over your rear-end is useful experience for the inexperienced. That doesn't deflect from the fact that if the person behind is a midrace joiner, they simply shouldn't be applying pressure to any car involved in the race, because that impacts (or threatens to impact) the ongoing race. Midrace joiners should be seen (in the distance) and not heard (damn horn-blowers!!).

Quote from danowat :

But is allowing MRJ a valid option in a system like CTRA?

Not sure if it's been discussed before, but surely kill the ability to MRJ would cure all these issues with MRJ.

Stu rather neatly quoted me above.. it still stands.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=810193#post810193

[edit] Becky's exactly right about server population. Much of the success of CTRA is in the consideration for the server's population that the X-System takes into account. On low-population, the server will reduce the number of laps within a range determined for that server, and it will increase the race duration as the population builds. If the population falls, it scales back the number of laps to attract more racers. Allowing midrace joining is a key part of that angle of approach. You can join and qualify, subject to the CTRA rules.. the minimum amount of time in a CTRA server is wasted.. as much as possible counts for something.