Quote from Becky Rose :

3% restriction was too much, it was tried before and the FXO was reduced to a tail ender and now the suspension improvements on the other cars would just eat it for breakfast.

One point though, the RB4 doesnt "have" to weigh more. They're different cars, not identical - they're not the same in all respects. 4WD would weigh more if all other factors where equal, but they're not necessarily equal.

That aside I think the FXO just needs to loose a little power, but seriously lets not have 3% again, last time that didnt work at all. The FXO should be able to fight for wins too in the right hands.

With all the respect, please give it a try. If we see it's not good - admins always can make changes.
p.s. Just played in AS National, first time Dexter took FXO and did time,that is better than WR of XRT/RB4. Hilarious.
One CR| guy was like "untouchable" for me so far[when i was in XRT],this time gave it a try in FXO first time - and it was a piece of cake.
Give it a try 3%.... the sooner it will be FORCED limit - the sooner we would see a more interesting races

I don't think 3% of restrictions is that much tbh. Last time, it wasn't just 3%, it was also an extra 70kg. FXO should be the slowest car cause of its easiness to handle compared to other two imo.

Quote from [RF]-art555 :

I don't think 3% of restrictions is that much tbh. Last time, it wasn't just 3%, it was also an extra 70kg. FXO should be the slowest car cause of its easiness to handle compared to other two imo.

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Quote from [RF]-art555 :

I don't think 3% of restrictions is that much tbh. Last time, it wasn't just 3%, it was also an extra 70kg. FXO should be the slowest car cause of its easiness to handle compared to other two imo.

But FXO has narrower suspensions or whatever now what should slow it down. 1 or 2 percent (I'd prefer 2%) should be best solution, because FXO is really pwning on S2 tracks :/

Quote from sanderman2000 :

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Quote from N I K I :

But FXO has narrower suspensions or whatever now what should slow it down. 1 or 2 percent (I'd prefer 2%) should be best solution, because FXO is really pwning on S2 tracks :/

FXO got a tiny bit thinner front tyres since Y patch which, as clearly seen, only affected it's tyres temps. They can reach much higher values now, but unlike other two cars, FXO seems to handle hot tyres quite well. It's raw pace wasn't changed a lot, afaik, less friction from front tyres raised top speed a tiny a bit (not sure about that), so in sprint races FXO is clearly the winner on all combos except RX ones for now, if we will compare the average driving standards.

Meanwhile, future patch is far away for now, but global balancing through master server is still possible as a temporary measure. If comunity is willing to put efforts together to do proper tests and measurements I think its possible to get into constructive discussion with devs (While Scawen is on vacation, he seems to be more or less active on the forum) and improve TBO racing

Just my 2c.

I suppose it's time to add in some summarising thoughts (apologies for the long delay - I've been working in Ireland for the last two weeks, and now sat in the airport on my way back ).

My own experiences of the racing has been mixed. I've driven the RB4 and the FXO, and not driven the XRT at all. I fully admit to being a good 2-3 seconds off the best times of the fastest drivers, having little experience of the XRT, but having similar amounts of time in the RB4 and the FXO. I've been using setups from a couple of the old STCC drivers (and to those who asked, this is why I haven't shared them - I don't feel they're mine to share, and I haven't remembered to ask them about it yet).

I've found that driving the RB4 on the stock setup is pointless. Similarly, driving the FXO on stock setup doesn't work anywhere near as well as a good set does. As you'd expect really.

Driving the RB4:
In the sprint races, I've been able to jump past some FXOs at the start and then fend off a few and keep them behind me. I've
found that I can brake later and carry a little more speed to the apex than FXOs can, and perhaps get on the throttle a tiny, tiny bit sooner. However, as soon as we get straightend out the FXO will pull away.
In an endurance race on one of the very short Aston configs I was able to put in a consistent performance, while all but one or two FXOs were dropping pace as the race went on.

Driving the FXO:
In sprint races I did come across one particular RB4 driver who could keep me at bay. One race I didn't get past him at all, the next it took me until the last lap to get by. In that second race my heart sank as he came past off the line. I didn't get a chance to do and endurance race in the FXO, but judging by the state of my tyres after a sprint race I don't think I'd fare very well.

The above is my gut feelings - I've not checked the laps using any analyser. Perhaps I should.

Doing any balancing is going to be very difficult to call. I tried a 1% intake restriction on the FXO for one evening and actually found it helped my tyres last longer and I was able to be more consistent. My club-foot aside, if the idea of this is to make the average FXO driver more level with the average RB4 then will this work?

That brings us on to the wider point. What is this to achieve? If we slow down the average driver, will that have the same, or any, impact on a faster driver? A 2% power restriction may slow down the average driver by 3-4 seconds a lap, but a good driver only 1-2. This could still leave races dominated by a few FXOs, but now those that enjoyed driving it don't anymore. A 3% restriction could make it pointless to race the FXO, in which case we've achieved nothing. Even if we get the RB4/FXO balance right, we've then got to make sure the XRT is also right. :/

I can see some testing needs to be done, ideally with a range of skill in the pack, and a range of restrictions. However, unless we can get something that works we may have to just wait for the next patch. I don't like passing the buck, but I don't think we should change things for the sake of it. We want CTRA to be easy to use, and making people add restrictions that don't work won't achieve that.

On a final note, I'd like to thank those that answered and included their regular preference of car in their post as I asked. Knowing where your viewing the issue from helps a lot. Thanks

I'd have said that since no comments where made for 4 days that people were accepting the situation and happy to wait until the LFS dev's balance the class more.


I'd seriously not think about spending precious time testing and 'trying' to keep everyone happy as just when you do that and get it and people tweak all their sets - possibly the game will be updated and you'd have done all that for nothing...

I raced the XRT last night, and with no experiance, on South City, I was quickly within 1 second or so of the FXO drivers that were present on the server.

If I can achieve this, with my lack of XRT driving experiance, then I don't think it's far off balanced.

IMO, in TBO class FXO should be as FXR in the GTR class - the slowest car, but at the same time is the easiest car to drive. FXO already is the easiest to drive, but it is the fastest at the moment, while RB4 and XRT are quite equal in terms of pace on tarmac tracks. If things will stay the same, it will be a matter of time while 80% of racers will use FXO only because its the fastest, other 20% maniacs which actually enjoy driving the car like me will still use XRT (RB4). The result is, IMO, that FXO should be slowed down. Fastest cars should be revarded somehow, not being the easiest to handle

I am not convinced the XRT is now (post patch Z) anymore harder to drive than the FXO is.

Quote from danowat :

I am not convinced the XRT is now (post patch Z) anymore harder to drive than the FXO is.

Harder to drive fast is the point being made.

It is fairly easy to jump in an FXO, light up the tyres at every corner, and still put in competitive times. Do it in an XRT and you are travelling sideways until you hit something.

It is. While we are more or less expirienced, the diffirence might not be so noticable, but FXO still has the advantage of ability to plow the throttle early without any harm, while doing the same in XRT might result in Dorifto scene

I think that used to be the case with the XRT, but now it is much more planted and easier to drive fast.

TBH, I didn't felt changes in its behavior Its fun to drive as it was, and still require good throttle control to keep it on the limit at control.

I think the best is just - to open LFS WORLD and to watch the "WR" times. Especially watch S2 tracks,you'll clearly notice,that FXO has 1-2 seconds better WR's all over, than RB4 or XRT. There is no need to prove it, you just can see it by yourself.
Driver on my level with FXO 3% restricted - will still race even [if it's not endurance].While it's no restriction - i don't stand a chance.

You also can understand - you can't say: "I drove XRT and was faster than all FXO drivers"...probably they weren't on your level. Whats the PB of XRT on AS National? 2:06.something....and what's the PB of FXO there? 2:05:00 flat...
ohhh, thats fast.
I took FXO and did on first laps time,that is even to XRT WR,which were driven by Alien at his best. Any more words?

Agreed with ART, harder handling cars should be rewarded by beeing a bit faster

Quote from [RF]-art555 :

IMO, in TBO class FXO should be as FXR in the GTR class - the slowest car, but at the same time is the easiest car to drive. FXO already is the easiest to drive, but it is the fastest at the moment, while RB4 and XRT are quite equal in terms of pace on tarmac tracks. If things will stay the same, it will be a matter of time while 80% of racers will use FXO only because its the fastest, other 20% maniacs which actually enjoy driving the car like me will still use XRT (RB4). The result is, IMO, that FXO should be slowed down. Fastest cars should be revarded somehow, not being the easiest to handle

+1 to everything.

After a long a turbulent internal discussion this afternoon, we're going to put any balancing over to the Devs. I know this may disappoint some of you, but for the forseeable future we'll be keeping our efforts within CTRA, not on LFS.

Quote from Christofire :

After a long a turbulent internal discussion this afternoon, we're going to put any balancing over to the Devs. I know this may disappoint some of you, but for the forseeable future we'll be keeping our efforts within CTRA, not on LFS.

It's ok, your reasons are more than clear. I was actually more trying to atract attention of the devs to this thread to show that TBO class isn't perfectly balanced, hopefully, it will be taken care of

Quote from [RF]-art555 :

It's ok, your reasons are more than clear. I was actually more trying to atract attention of the devs to this thread to show that TBO class isn't perfectly balanced, hopefully, it will be taken care of

+1 of what he said.
Despite it's a bit disapointing at first, but it can be understood very good,and it has to be solved on LFS level.
What i do have to ask is - Can We Help Each Other to make Devs attention at this problem and it will be solved in the future patch ?
So at least we tryed and can "move" from "dead point" forward to make our racing more fun for every driver.

Thank you