Well it's all relative isn't it, many people consider driving in their car safe but it's a lot more dangerous than smoking weed.
Again though I want people to be told the truth about drugs, the good as well the bad. If you abuse drugs there are consequences but that doesn't mean you can't use them responsibly.
thisnameistaken is right that not everyone can handle drugs like lsd so what I said above isn't quite right but it's all about level of risk which for most recreational drugs isn't that big.
I think rock climbers are crazy and you would never get me to do that because the risk of death is so high but no one is banning rock climbing are they.

btw jtr99, are all aussies you know trippers or something? :color:

How can you even attempt to put driving a car, and taking drugs in a similar risk bracket, one is an essential form of transport, the other has no real-world value, apart from getting you wasted.
I would like to be told the positives of taking drugs, because I don't know of any, for the average human, I know weed can assist those with things like MS, but I am talking about recreational use.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

How can you even attempt to put driving a car, and taking drugs in a similar risk bracket, one is an essential form of transport, the other has no real-world value, apart from getting you wasted.

Consider renting a sports car for an afternoon and buying a gram of cocaine. Both of these activities have risks, both of them are things some people will pay good money to do, and both of them are things that some people will argue are pleasurable. Why do you insist on there being a huge gulf between them? I don't get your argument.

Quote :

I would like to be told the positives of taking drugs, because I don't know of any, for the average human, I know weed can assist those with things like MS, but I am talking about recreational use.

Dan, why do you think people take drugs? Is it your theory that they are all just mad? Or do you subscribe to some Freudian idea that they're unconsciously trying to kill themselves, something like that? People take a drug the first time out of curiosity, peer pressure, or whatever. But they typically take a drug the second time because they enjoy what happened the first time. It's as simple as that. Why do kids roll down hills to get dizzy? Why do elephants eat fermented fruit? Why do people have sex? Why do we play LFS? In short, for fun.

I'm not saying there's no downside to drug use, nor am I calling on all able-bodied citizens to take LSD with their cornflakes. I'm just saying that the demonization of drug use is very puzzling given that it's something people have done for thousands of years and will presumably continue to do whenever they can get their hands on the stuff.

I believe you when you say you've seen friends and acquaintances make bad decisions related to drug use, and mess up their lives. I've seen friends make bad decisions to do with drugs, but I've also seen them make very bad decisions to do with relationships, cars, unprotected sex, non-drug-related crime, their finances, their education, their health, etc. People mess things up all the time, and the driving factor here is the person involved. If you banished every drug from the face of the earth tomorrow, all you'd be doing is slightly narrowing the range of methods available for making bad decisions. Dare I say it, you would also be taking a significant amount of fun out of the world.

PS: tailing, good guess.

I think you've said it better than I could jtr, the thing that tends to annoy me about the drugs issue is that if for example weed was not illegal you simply would not be able to mount a strong enough argument for banning it. There simply is no valid argument for it being illegal but because it is and we've got almost a century of propaganda under the belt it's almost impossible to convince people.

Unfortunatly I'm a smoker. But I'm trying to quit,although it's very hard. But it's not good for racing, slows your reactions down. (I smoke LM)

yeah, but smoking is cool, makes you look hard and the girls love it!

Quote from sidepants :

yeah, but smoking is cool, makes you look hard and the girls love it!

hmm, sarcasm doesn't work on boards....



i smoke. def not proud of it. in fact, one of my proudest moments was gently persuading a kid i worked with who just took up smoking to quit!

if anyone is thinking smoking is good, go look at this and tell me that smoking is a good idea

http://www.emphysema.net/my.html

Quote from Gunn :

I don't want to be the fun police, but it is imperative that people realise that regular and long term use can only be harmful. Perhaps you are having too good a time to admit it, but it is wise to take care of yourselves. When you grow older you will need your health.

Gunn, you seem like an intelligent bloke. I'm not going to argue with the specifics of what you've presented. But I do take issue with an unstated assumption behind this sort of argument. You seem to be working on the principle that we should all be leading zero-risk or bare-minimum-risk lives. Don't smoke anything because it has a deleterious effect on your health, full stop. You're right about the deleterious effect but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that there are potential benefits that could be weighed against the costs here. I'd be a lot happier with an argument along the lines of "here is the bad side of smoking one joint per week, here is the good side, here's a way of weighing up both sides, I conclude that the bad side wins and we should not do this." But all too often in this sort of debate I see arguments like your own, that basically amount to: "This practice has health risks, so don't do it."

A moment's reflection should convince us that human beings are not actually in pursuit of zero-risk or minimum-risk lives. And nor should they be. For example, some of the participants on this forum engage in motor-racing or at least track days. There are clearly risks involved in doing this, but I don't think any of us would argue that these guys should stop racing. (In fact I'm sure we're all jealous as hell.)

What about fried food? I'm sure there's an intake level of Kentucky Fried Chicken that approximately matches the health risks involved in a given level of marijuana use. Are you going to argue just as strongly for less KFC as well as less THC? If your answer is that you feel just as strongly about young people being made aware of the health effects of their dietary choices, then great. But it's hard to argue that a monthly KFC binge is some sort of crime against nature, assuming the person involved has a balanced diet overall and gets the right amount of exercise. Similarly, if somebody with all the facts available to them makes an informed decision to smoke a joint on a Saturday night, and is otherwise a sane and responsible citizen, I don't see that he or she has any moral case to answer.

I completely agree with you that ingesting smoke from burning organic matter tends to be crap for one's lungs. That's one of the reasons I'm not a smoker. But the method of ingestion can be a bit of a red herring. If THC was legally available in pill form, would your attitude to its consumption be any different?

I should probably put my cards on the table here: given my last few posts, you may think I am somewhere between Keith Richards and Hunter S. Thompson in terms of personal drug use. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. As a young person I experimented with various substances, sure, but I haven't maintained my use of any of them except alcohol and coffee. The reason I am pushing this argument is not so I can feel good about my own habits, but because I believe that many people are in the grip of a deep prejudice when it comes to thinking about drugs. Any moral position that allows us to tell someone flatly "You really shouldn't do drugs" would also have us telling people that they shouldn't: collect stamps, go rock-climbing, eat ice-cream, be gay, sit around watching TV, have one-night stands, etc., etc., etc.

In my view we should save our moral opprobrium for the stuff that really matters. We should think about drug use much the same way that we'd think about a holiday to Thailand: not without risks, not without joys, and not the sort of thing that calls for a moral judgment.

when in doubt.... fire up another!!!:banana_ra

Jtr99: very well said :up:

Same as Danowat and biggie - don't smoke, don't drink. Never tried smoking, but have had alcohol before. Just didn't really like it, so don't see the point in drinking it. Does get tough sometimes, all friends going out drinking lots etc, some smoking (cigaretess/cigars/weed)...

Quote from jtr99 :

If THC was legally available in pill form, would your attitude to its consumption be any different?

Being a botanist and having worked with various aid groups who assist addicts and drug users on the road to recovery I can tell you that THC is relatively ineffective unless it is released by heat. So a pill is unlikely to ever be a reality. This is why users usually burn or cook their grass.

In response to some of your other comments, yes, I would argue that KFC is to be avoided completely.

As for your scenario about the individual making an informed decision, posts like mine are more likely to help them do that than some pro-marijuana rhetoric. I haven't said that I am against people using marijuana, rather I have informed you of only the facts in relation to health risk. I am more concerned with the way some people present the use of this substance as "fairly safe" or "low impact", than I am about an individual deliberately taking a health risk. Even if used in moderation there are health risks. When mixed with other substance abuse the risks escalate exponentially.

It is not safe, nor is it a friendly alternative to harder drugs when it comes to health risk. Know that before you make a decision on using it. That is my message. It is a health message, not a political one.

There is a risk in everything we do, good or "bad".

From walking across the street, to riding/driving very fast cars or bikes, to jumping off a building with only a peice of cloth/stretchy rope to save you,
to smoking cigs and pot and drinking alcohol, to eating too much, sleeping too much, speeding too much, or even farting too much.

I could go on all day..

Things could go wrong, but sometimes, the risk's you have to take, is worth the "buzz/rush" you get from doing it.

If you're willing to take the risk, then go ahead, and do what you want. But dont come moaning when it all goes pete tong.

Quote from L(Oo)ney :

Things could go wrong, but sometimes, the risk's you have to take, is worth the "buzz/rush" you get from doing it.

But do other people find the risk(s) of your buzz/rush reasonable? Should they?

Started smoking when I was 13, Obviously it was the cool thing to do, 2 years later I quit and havnt' had a fag in about 6 or 7 months (A few times when I had in me I took a few draws but that's it)

As for weed and hash etc, that's what made me stop it, for a few months I was doing it and seen what affect it had on me and others who had been on it for years, So i quit that and smoking, glad I have now but still get the craving for one sometimes.

As for other people smoking it doesn't bother me, my last girlfriend smoked and I wasn't to fussed as she wasn't a 20 a day smoker, more like 5-10 and all it takes is a bit of Extra and she tastes good as new. Anyway, i'm only young (16) Why should I bother about what it does to her, I wont know her in 30 years time so that's her fault for smoking. (Even though I did have the occasional dig at her about how in stunts your growth and makes her taste bad for a while!)

It's banned on the 26th of March in public places so it wont just be the infants hiding round corners having a quick fag without being seen, it will be all the smokers!

Like I already said the safety of drugs is relative, in the case of weed it is more safe relative to many everyday things we do and it is safer compared to other illicit drugs.
My advice is if you do use drugs to be responsible about it and that you must realise there are negative effects on top of the positives and they are especially compounded when you abuse them. Simply using drugs does not constitute abuse however.
I think it's a typical and lazy deflection to claim that anyone who promotes drug use is simply spouting rhetoric and is blinded by the "good times". The reality is there is a lot of positives for some people to be gained out of using drugs and the risks are a judgement call for them to make. With better and more balanced drug education and the end of the demonisation of drugs people might actually be able to make more informed decisions and the risks would decrease.
Gunn is right in a lot of things he says but for weed in particular it's still not enough to warrant it being illegal. It's the most studied drug on the planet and most studies that I've heared of don't recommend it be illegal. Politicians don't want to hear this of course so nothing is made of it.
This is a good link I only just found.

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/healthmyths.html

I smoke. Golden virginia. Rollies.

I'm not what I would call a heavy smoker. Depends if I'm working or not. On my day's off or if I'm not working for a while I can go for days without having any. If I'm working or having a session I can smoke loads.

As regards to my health. I know it's not the best thing in the world for me. But all things considered there are a hell of a lot of stuff out there that I do day to day, legally, that can cause me alot more harm.

1. I drive.
2. I work at height.
3. I work with wood, mdf, metal, electricity, heat, cold any one of which can cause me serious grief at any given moment.
4. I work with other poeple who can cause me serious grief at any given moment.
5. I eat food from tesco's. Quite frankly any food we eat nowadays cannot be completly vouched for. I am sure my PCP levels are high, my Phosphate levels will be through the roof. My sodium, saturated fats and colestral levels will be high.
6. I live in the modern world.

But. There are loads of things I do to try and make sure life is a full and meaningful as it can be.

1.I live in the modern world. Which means by deafault I will live longer than the previous generation.
2. I'm a veggie. No meat for me. None of this forcce feeding livestock and birds bits of themselves just to service the fast food sector.
3. I don't eat fast food. High in salt, saturated fats and all things bad. Do you know that in Britain KFC can't call itself Kentucky fried Chicken as what they serve can't be claimed as being chicken. The things they do to those animals just to keep the hungry masses on their ineviatble rise on teh wiegh scales.
4. I eat plenty of green vegatables. Jam packed full of anti oxidents, vitamins, minerals and other cancer busting natural goodness.
5. I'm a moderate drinker. I would be lying if a said I don't drink. I work in the entertainments industry. Ofd course I drink. But in moderation. Gotta help that liver of mine digest all those PCP's.

Smoking works for me. Sometimes it doesn't and I don't smoke. Sometimes it does so I do. I don't take hard drugs, have the occasional spliff and I don't eat fish because we havn't got any left.

There are to many other thing in life to worry about than just smoking alone. Besides, they are gunna ban it from pubs next year. Then we'll all be screwed.

FunnyBear can I add something to your list?

Ah, this must have been your exuse last night when you kept drifting that XRG into me Bear!!

I agree with you though on your points, EG workin at heights, if you have been smoking for a long time you will get agitated while up their and maybe forget something crucial to your safety or whatever.

Yea. Sorry about the drifting. Obviously wasn't a night for a rear wheeler on that server . . . .

I've been smoking for 30 years. Marlboro, tire treads and whatever bud is going around.

Quote from MARSH2a :

I've been smoking for 30 years. Marlboro, tire treads and whatever bud is going around.

Tire treads huh? You should try Mattress

I've heard that Banana Peel has a certain kick to it . . .

now belmont milds are the best. go canada.

go get some of each brand and smoke 'em all at once. like here
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/11011/smoker.jpg