The online racing simulator
F1 Kers
2
(45 posts, started )
#26 - 5haz
I would also like to see a return of H shifters, one of the things that great racing drivers used to do was dance on the pedals as they Heele'd and Toe'd or double de-clutched, just watch Senna in the late 80's/ early 90's Mclarens, (although by then he had a 'sequential' stick shift), things were so much more busy and hectic then, and those who could go through the gears efficiently were faster and more reliable whereas those who we'rent would break their cars and spin due to locking the rear wheels.

There are two opinions on how F1 should go forward, some think F1 should be all about racing action and excitement, and others think that F1 should be about progress and technological advancement, obviously fully manual gearboxes and H-Shifters arent exactly leading edge technology.

However technology has advanced so much now that it has made racing efficient and boring, so I think the best route to take is to go down the route of makng the cars less sophisticated, hopefully leading to more exciting racing.

I'm very excited about the shift towards more mechanical grip, I'd love to see cars that have some downforce but still have to be slid about a bit in order to be quick.

Ofcourse the cars are only half the problem, most currejt F1 tracks suck, I think the problem is that Herman Tilke follows a 'formula' when he creates his tracks, most legendary tracks were built at random or followed the contours of the land (par example Brands Hatch, for the most part runs around a natrual bowl in the land), this means that they have unusual cambers and tricky bumps/elevation changes that Tilke tracks simply don't have, I think Tilke tries too hard to create a track that encourages overtaking and so ends up with this formulaic mess.

EDIT: It might be interesting next year when cars are less reliant on Aero, because I think that Tilke tracks may suddenly become great for ovetaking, as there are often lots of overtaking spaces, but aerodynamics prevent the passes from being carried out, once the aero problem is removed, we may see the amount overtaking rocket next year.
Quote from tristancliffe :What a completely stupid response R.Miller.

Or is a good thing when the drivers just sit there, relax, and have about 5% of the skill of just 20 years ago?

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Tristan. So, today's drivers have 5% of the skill of their peers from 20 years ago. Oh, yes...that's not a stupid response at all.
Why should F1 drivers forced to use a H-Shifter when no current serious formula racing league it?

Getting rid of some tech stuff is ok, but it's stupid to remove everything that was invented after 1990 just because to make it harder to drive...

F1 is a engineers series, where big motor companies battle to show their tech-capabilities, so the cars should be latest tech.
If you really want to find out who the best driver is, put them all in a gp2 car and let them race so you have at least an equal basis to compare.
#29 - 5haz
Quote from three_jump :Why should F1 drivers forced to use a H-Shifter when no current serious formula racing league it?

Getting rid of some tech stuff is ok, but it's stupid to remove everything that was invented after 1990 just because to make it harder to drive...

F1 is a engineers series, where big motor companies battle to show their tech-capabilities, so the cars should be latest tech.
If you really want to find out who the best driver is, put them all in a gp2 car and let them race so you have at least an equal basis to compare.

It all depends on wether you want to see some racing or wether you just want to make millions out of F1, the technology is great for making money, but the racing is boring.

A lot of racing series still use a sequential stick shift and clutch pedal, so I don't see whats wrong with that being in F1?
You're all soft, yes including you, Tristan - I think H-shifters are also too easy for F1 drivers, and if you think they're hard you just haven't done anything hard before. They should have to perform special moves with joysticks to change gear, a la Street Fighter 2. Dragon Punch for 2nd, Spinning Piledriver for 3rd, Fireball for 4th and so on. And different ones for downshifts.

And all radio communication should be in morse code. Just to make the sport artificially difficult.
Quote from 5haz :A lot of racing series still use a sequential stick shift and clutch pedal, so I don't see whats wrong with that being in F1?

It is ironic that the higher level the less manual input from the driver is needed. But I can't name any professional series other than few GT and touring car series. Paddles have been in F1 soon for 20 years, there's no going back. Anyne else thinking during last few years biggest change have been (besides traction control) modern eletronic powersteerings? Those really give the impression that the driving is so relaxed and effortless.

I wonder how far technology development can reduce skill aspect in motorsport, traction control systems have even conquered MotoGP

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Quote from thisnameistaken :They should have to perform special moves with joysticks to change gear, a la Street Fighter 2. Dragon Punch for 2nd, Spinning Piledriver for 3rd, Fireball for 4th and so on. And different ones for downshifts.

I propose the institution of the TSIG0 roll. Inspired from THAC0 - the "To Shift Into Gear 0" roll would basically be determined based on driver AGI and the gear's distance from neutral.

Quote from tristancliffe :The same applies in road cars in my opinion. A car designed for fun driving should be about fun driving, not having a computer do all the complicated stuff for you. A shopping trolley can have electronics like that, but a sports/super car shouldn't.

So how far do you go with that? I don't for a minute believe drivers today are any less skilled than previously. They certainly have an easier life, but that's not to say they're any less skilled. Kimi, Alonso, Hakkinen, Hamilton and Schuey would be quick whether in old cars or new.

An MX-5 is a very easy car to drive on the limit, whereas an MR2 is trickier, but that doesn't mean MR2 drivers are more skilled.

Motorsport is always going to be a balance between engineering progress and sport. The perfect racing car (in performance terms) would be a doddle to drive on the limit, capable of banging in fast and consistent laptimes without any bother. Car designers and engineers strive toward this because engineering is as much what F1 is about as the driving.

Also, to limit the technology would limit the spectacle. I enjoy seeing historic F1 cars but they simply do not compare to the modern equivalent. I would never want to be robbed of seeing a modern F1 car at full blast through Copse in exchange for the drivers having to change gear.

However, the rule changes this year have been brilliant for the sport. TC was clearly a step too far.
http://www.racecar-engineering ... 2014/f1-kers-flybrid.html

BMW ont he other hand uses an interesting system int he road cars. They threw away the altenator and starter, put a single motor/generator there, put a very nice capacitor in the trunk (18k Farads, a normal cap in a PC has a cople micro farads). When you rbake, the capacitor charges up and that's then used to charge up the batter. It's A LOT more effective than the normal way, where you charge a battery directly.
Quote from tristancliffe :What a completely stupid response R.Miller. One of the stupidest of the year. That wasn't a skill, and didn't require skill. It can be lost to history. Gear changing IS a skill, and shouldn't be lost. The best drivers in the world should have the best skills.

Or is a good thing when the drivers just sit there, relax, and have about 5% of the skill of just 20 years ago?

Then motor racing should also introduce a promotion/relegation system because last time I checked motor sport isn't about rewarding the best drivers!

But this is what motorsport is about. It's a business and has very little to do with the actual driving experience. Just look at karting. Even I will say the most popular kart engine in the world at the moment - the Rotax MAX FR125 - is a complete disaster area. It isn't fun to drive, and has way to much grip. 20 years ago we had 100cc karts with little grip.. 20krpm sliding about... YES!!!

Just look at LFS... no one drivers the LXs!! Its a shame but people don't want to drive things that are hard. They wanna go fast in the easiest possible way!
Was it Max Mosely that suggested the drivers should randomly pick what cars they had to race in for each race? Making sure they couldn't get the same car twice in a row, and that every driver had to use all of the cars in a season. I Max is used to switching between different positions and languages though.
Quote from Intrepid :Then motor racing should also introduce a promotion/relegation system because last time I checked motor sport isn't about rewarding the best drivers!

But this is what motorsport is about. It's a business and has very little to do with the actual driving experience. Just look at karting. Even I will say the most popular kart engine in the world at the moment - the Rotax MAX FR125 - is a complete disaster area. It isn't fun to drive, and has way to much grip. 20 years ago we had 100cc karts with little grip.. 20krpm sliding about... YES!!!

Just look at LFS... no one drivers the LXs!! Its a shame but people don't want to drive things that are hard. They wanna go fast in the easiest possible way!

Still got that bee in your bonnet about karting? Really, give up...
Quote from Intrepid :Then motor racing should also introduce a promotion/relegation system because last time I checked motor sport isn't about rewarding the best drivers!

Thats a stupid idea and everyone knows it, you could have world champions in lower series becuase the team they were in was rubbish.

It may work in football but not Formula 1.

The closest way you could have that system in place would be a percentage points difference between your team mate, but if the team scores no points then they can't be demoted(which makes it unfair).
Quote from thisnameistaken :You're all soft, yes including you, Tristan - I think H-shifters are also too easy for F1 drivers, and if you think they're hard you just haven't done anything hard before. They should have to perform special moves with joysticks to change gear, a la Street Fighter 2. Dragon Punch for 2nd, Spinning Piledriver for 3rd, Fireball for 4th and so on. And different ones for downshifts.

And all radio communication should be in morse code. Just to make the sport artificially difficult.

I almost lost it there...
Quote from xaotik :I propose the institution of the TSIG0 roll. Inspired from THAC0 - the "To Shift Into Gear 0" roll would basically be determined based on driver AGI and the gear's distance from neutral.

Alright... couldn't stop laughing at this point, especially after I saw the picture to go with it
#40 - JJ72
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :Was it Max Mosely that suggested the drivers should randomly pick what cars they had to race in for each race? Making sure they couldn't get the same car twice in a row, and that every driver had to use all of the cars in a season. I Max is used to switching between different positions and languages though.

arhh... formula rental championship.
Quote from xaotik :That's just a theatrical re-enactment of the incident - in the actual thing he had hair.

:ices_rofl Made me laugh even more!
Im sure this has been mentioned before in this thread but anyway, did anyone know that having KERS in your car next year is optional?

They are saying the adtional weight of kers may lose a few tenths as it gives alot of front end weight which may lose tenths in understeer but the gains are around the same, i think for teams such as Red Bull, Williams, Force india etc its best to not to go for it due to reliability and under developemnt(unless a manufactuer makes it for them).
Yes it's optional.
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F1 Kers
(45 posts, started )
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