Guys, i need your advice:
Me and a friend are preparing an austrian racing league, and i was introducing some racing rulez. One of those rules is "not to change line more than 1 time per straight." and therefore not to block the one behind you, even if he is trying to pass you.
Immediatly there was some protest in the Forum - like stupid rule - ist for softies - etc...

No, OMHO this rule is taken straight out of IRL Racing, and i think its a good rule.
Pls tell me what u think
thx
SF

check out the CRC rules as a start. IMHO, they're good enough. Or, you might wanna go with the BTCC style racing. check out the forum.

CRC is dead IMHO.
I wanted to hear the opinion of some racers. No need to check out some Forum, bcos i know this rule comes from Real Life Racing

The CRC is pretty much alive I think. But that's not really the point.

I think 1 move off your line and 1 move to get back every straight is a better option, this way you can block a slightly faster driver, but if someone has lik 5 kph more top speed than you, you've got to let him by the second time.

So back and forth once every straight.

Quote from bobvanvliet :

The CRC is pretty much alive I think. But that's not really the point.

I think 1 move off your line and 1 move to get back every straight is a better option, this way you can block a slightly faster driver, but if someone has lik 5 kph more top speed than you, you've got to let him by the second time.

So back and forth once every straight.

yes, this was actually what i meant. I just dont want people to cross the line as many times as they want.

I do not think that such a rule is working well with online play. It demands quite a lot of discipline by the drivers and needs quite a lot of control to work. You would literally have to spectate every single overtaking (or, depending how strict you bare, every single driver on every single straight).

I'd rather have a rule that says: "Blocking other drivers on purpose is forbidden. If you happen to be the victim or wittness of such a incident, drop a message at ([email protected]) with a brief description, including the accused driver and the lap in which the blocking happened. Our racing commitee will look at every single case individually and will, if the accuse is proven true, state penalties like dedaction of points or even a temporary ban."

So you would only be bothered when someone really would be blocked, instead of surveilling all the racers...

BTW, wo trifft sich die österreichische überhaupt? Werde nächste Woche bezahlt, und hab dann spätestens übernächste Woche meine S2-Lizenz

Quote from ColeusRattus :

I'd rather have a rule that says: "Blocking other drivers on purpose is forbidden. If you happen to be the victim or wittness of such a incident, drop a message at ([email protected]) with a brief description, including the accused driver and the lap in which the blocking happened. Our racing commitee will look at every single case individually and will, if the accuse is proven true, state penalties like dedaction of points or even a temporary ban."

So you would only be bothered when someone really would be blocked, instead of surveilling all the racers...

If you make up rules, you can hopefully count on league participants to comply... And whatever the rule is, your system for disputes would work for all of them.

And banning all blocking seems a bit excessive cause you should be able to block someone trying to overtake you, the purpose of a blocking rule is just to prevent people from swerving left to right repeatedly and causing dangerous and frustrating situatuations.

the point is that good racing does take a lot of discipline indeed - and people dont have any diszipline at all - well most of them. Just check out all the "wreckers" threads in the Forum - all due to lack of discipline.

Quote from bobvanvliet :

cause you should be able to block someone trying to overtake you, the purpose of a blocking rule is just to prevent people from swerving left to right repeatedly and causing dangerous and frustrating situatuations.

u should not be able to Block at all - but what u can do is to force the faster driver on the outside line, and gain some advantage by that. Blocking would mean that i always change to the line the driver behind me is using., no matter how often.

Check out these rules - they work very well (obviously ignoring the NR2003 specific stuff) http://www.sarl.co.za/sagtps_rules.htm

As Scneefee says, when you are defending a position it does not make sense to swerve across the track to block, a far better defense is to go into the corner on a tighter line, forcing the guy behind to back off or try the long way round. If you happen to have made a mistake the previous corner and are slow on the straight rather let the guy through and start working out how to get back past him.


Chris.

Quote :

A driver is allowed to move over ONCE to 'block' a pursuing driver, but may not then move over again if the driver attempting to pass changes his line in order to find another way past.

This is roughly what i meant...

Quote from SchneeFee :

the point is that good racing does take a lot of discipline indeed - and people dont have any diszipline at all - well most of them. Just check out all the "wreckers" threads in the Forum - all due to lack of discipline.

*cough* Wreckers do not lack discipline....they lack COMMON SENSE! *cough*

People that participate in leagues usually behave well.....at least usually

On the topic of this racing rule I personally think that this rule, which to my knowledge was foremost written for open wheelers, is not really good.
One of the best experiences in online racing that I have come across is being in a battle of two racers, one slower and one faster, that are playing the game of attack and block.
Any action which is dangerous or harsh should be punished, but changing the line more than once is, in itself, not dangerous.

.....but really, I am no league admin and I understand that strict rules like this may make the management of a racing series a tad easier

CU, Sebastian

Edit - Might be my understanding of 'blocking' is wrong though......

IMHO, you should be allowed to block as much as you want, as long as you dont force the overtaking guyof the track. But usually one move to one side is anyway the maximum you can do. Blocking belongs to racing, and in some shorter distance races it's needed. In a longrun, you can more easily give room. But I for myself love to be a "hard to overtake" guy.

You can be hard to pass without illegal blocking and the one-move rule is there for a reason. You cannot move to defend to inside and then move out and block the outside again too. Weaving side-to-side is not good racing, and would be considered dangerous.

Quote from Vykos69 :

IMHO, you should be allowed to block as much as you want, as long as you dont force the overtaking guyof the track. But usually one move to one side is anyway the maximum you can do. Blocking belongs to racing, and in some shorter distance races it's needed. In a longrun, you can more easily give room. But I for myself love to be a "hard to overtake" guy.

the border to being "unfair" is very very thin here. this increases the need of some rulez especially for league racing. On puplic server i dont care at all, i am just prepared for everything there . But when doing a league i want clean fair racing - and if u leave this to the drivers - i wont work out well.

Quote from sinbad :

You can be hard to pass without illegal blocking and the one-move rule is there for a reason. You cannot move to defend to inside and then move out and block the outside again too. Weaving side-to-side is not good racing, and would be considered dangerous.

Oh, so we have enough active players here to actually make a league? cool

But yeah, I think CRC rules or the ones posted by SniperZA are the way to go here.

Quote from Vykos69 :

IMHO, you should be allowed to block as much as you want, as long as you dont force the overtaking guyof the track. But usually one move to one side is anyway the maximum you can do. Blocking belongs to racing, and in some shorter distance races it's needed. In a longrun, you can more easily give room. But I for myself love to be a "hard to overtake" guy.

i'm with you, but i someone is faster on the straight, always going from left to right and so IS UNFAIR.

but blocking someone by breaking earlier or more than needed is in my opinion ok...look at F1...
schumacher vs Alonso was an example (don't know what track it was)...
this is done by every racer...

but on the straight it's unfair...
ok, as long as he is behind you, it's ok...

i think this is a difficult thing, because there are so many ways to block, fair one and unfair one...
so i thing you have to show visually what is unfair and not allowed, case such thinks are very difficult to explain, but if you show examples visually (by replays or videos) i think everybody understand what u mean by unfair and fair (allowed, not allowed)...

btw: wenn ich zeit hab, fahr ich mit...

Hmmm, I don't know, I may be out of the competitive crowd, but if I see that a guy's been consistently lapping let's say 3-4 seconds faster than me, I'll definately let him pass and will only take my best line in curves. He'll be able to pass me on a straight anyway. When it gets in the 1-2 seconds range, I won't give room, but I won't go out of my way either.


It's easy to defend a position on a straight when you're in front. If you take the outside, the guy will run inside, and will have a far slower exit speed anyway, so I usually end up in front again aside if I made a braking error or something. if you take the inside, your early braking will have destabilized him, and you can capitalize on that.

Against drivers with really similar but slightly faster lap speeds, I was able to hold for laps without even blocking once on straights. The only thing I hate about that is how they put so much pressure on you. I usually hold for those laps then just drive myself off the track like a noob.

The problem with "unlimited" blocking I think is when someone is coming up on you and you move over to block, he is there. He either brakes to avoid ramming you or swings out around you. If you attempt a second block, he has momentum and would be there up beside you, so you will hit him and take him out. That is why there is a one block move rule. I don't block and don't believe in blocking, it leads to accidents with different experiences and lag. It would be better to let him go, slow down a bit more and get a better exit speed and repass him as you come off the turn. I just wish I was a better driver to do this. I usually let him go and watch him pull away.

If someone takes a defensive line, that is fine. If someone does an inside out reverse on me and repassess me, wow, great move man! But if someone weaves in front of me, especially after I have caught a draft and have momentum, well once they will get away with, but more than that and they are going to get punted. Just a little nudge to destablize them in a turn with the intent to not wreck him or me. I don't like blocking especially if we are driving the same car. If we are in the same car, and I am consitently faster, then it is my responsibility to try and get past cleanly. If the other driver is erratic and intentionally blocking, well then they have shown that they have no regard for me or clean racing.

Now, having said all that, I have never actually done it. I said it to prove a point. But, if blocking does happen, I guarantee you it will happen. Maybe not by me, but someone will do it. That is why leagues usually have some type of policy on blocking to keep the mayham down to the minimum.

Driving different car types things get more complicated. For example, LX6 vs the FZ50. The LX6 will be faster in the corners and the FZ will be faster on the straights. This leads to the LX6 guy getting passed on all long straights, and the FZ driver getting passed in the corners. Lap after lap. The FZ will slow the LX6 down a lot, but the LX6 does not really slow the FZ down because it is pretty easy to pass with power on straights. It will get pretty frustrating, but as long as the drivers are not blocking... that's racing.
Pro leagues are a different thing. They race for real, real money, real life stuff. Blocking is dangerous and so is getting punted. If the league wants to draw a bigger, more ignorant croud, then they "let" drivers get away with more bumping and rubbing than really needs to be there. I would much prefer to watch a hard fought battle over several laps where both drivers never tough each other, but somehow, a pass is made. Sure, the leading driver will take a defensive line, but blocking is different.

Quote from Hallen :

I would much prefer to watch a hard fought battle over several laps where both drivers never tough each other, but somehow, a pass is made. Sure, the leading driver will take a defensive line, but blocking is different.

Ask and you shall receive . http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=681

The basic point is this, once someone is in the draft and pulls out to pass its already too late to block. I will make multiple line adjustments on a straight for one reason only, to break or prevent a draft. Once a draft has been caught its already too late to block safely. If someong intends to pass there really is nothing you can safely do to prevent it. Defensive driving and blocking are two different things and need to be addressed seperatly in my opinion.

Quote from SchneeFee :

Racing Rules!

I agree

Quote from Gimpster :

The basic point is this, once someone is in the draft and pulls out to pass its already too late to block. I will make multiple line adjustments on a straight for one reason only, to break or prevent a draft. Once a draft has been caught its already too late to block safely. If someong intends to pass there really is nothing you can safely do to prevent it. Defensive driving and blocking are two different things and need to be addressed seperatly in my opinion.

Absolutely.

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